NBA 2012-13

• GOONx19

  

  ROY: Anthony Davis
  DPOY: Dwight Howard
  MVP: LeBron
  Most surprising team: Wizards
  Most disappointing team: Nets
  Eastern Conference Champions: Heat
  Western Conference Champions: Lakers
  NBA Champ: Heat
  
  All NBA First Team
  Chris Paul
  Rajon Rondo
  LeBron James
  Kevin Durant
  Dwight Howard
• Laley23

  

  Commander of Awesome;1285127 wrote:On its face, it’s the best talent I’ve been around," Bryant said.
  
  http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe-calls-lakers-his-most-talented-team-ever.html
  
  My first reaction was to disagree, but when I thought about it, I'd have to agree with him. Also I'd say its more talented than the Celtics team that won it, maybe more than the Bulls team that won (player wise, not the way the team plays together) and maybe more talented than the current Heat team.
  
  I think most people on here severely under rate Pau Gasol, and lets just say I highly disagree with some of the opinions I read on here regarding Howard. Barring an injury, I expect him to be a monster this year. What do you guys think, most talented Lakers team in Kobe's tenure? What about in the league?

  No, simply because when Kobe had Shaq, he HIMSELF was much better player than he is now. Talent AROUND him, not counting himself, then yes, most talent he has had imo.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Laley23;1285180 wrote:No, simply because when Kobe had Shaq, he HIMSELF was much better player than he is now. Talent AROUND him, not counting himself, then yes, most talent he has had imo.

  That one is tough for me to evaluate. Kobe is a smarter player and less of a ball hog now plus a much better teammate. Not sure I've watched enough of him during his early years to properly evaluate. Perhaps a lakers fan can chime in.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Laley23;1285180 wrote:No, simply because when Kobe had Shaq, he HIMSELF was much better player than he is now. Talent AROUND him, not counting himself, then yes, most talent he has had imo.

  I think when he says talent it's typically regardless of current ability and this is reflected in this quote.
  

  Guys who are at the top of their position at one point or another.

  
  
  Yes, Kobe, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol all are really talented, but do they have the ability to perform at their highest level now? Dwight is possibly the only one still in his prime.
  
  But on a purely talent level, I would still say the version with Kobe, Shaq, Gary Payton and Karl Malone was more talented.
  
  SG: Kobe = Kobe
  C: Shaq > Howard
  PF: Karl Malone > Pau Gasol
  SF: Crazy Idiot punching fans and throwing elbows > Rick Fox
  PG: Gary Payton > Steve Nash (These are two very different players as Payton was a defensive genius in addition to being well equipped on offense, where as Steve Nash is offensively brilliant in his own right, but generally not the best at defense). Although one could argue that they are equals or even Nash is better as evidenced by his MVP's at least one of which was a complete sham though.
  
  Overall I would say the 2003 Lakers were the more talented.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  I think Gasol is a better player than Malone. Overall and at this point in Gasol's career vs Malone's point when he was on the lakers.
• gport_tennis

  What was the bench like on that 03team. This years has some decent players
• Azubuike24

  

  The Spurs were "re-surging" but they still had to be taken down by the Lakers. If this year's team wins a title though, it's a no-brainer.
• Pick6

  

  Fly4Fun;1285224 wrote:I think when he says talent it's typically regardless of current ability and this is reflected in this quote.
  
  
  
  Yes, Kobe, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol all are really talented, but do they have the ability to perform at their highest level now? Dwight is possibly the only one still in his prime.
  
  But on a purely talent level, I would still say the version with Kobe, Shaq, Gary Payton and Karl Malone was more talented.
  
  SG: Kobe = Kobe
  C: Shaq > Howard
  PF: Karl Malone > Pau Gasol
  SF: Crazy Idiot punching fans and throwing elbows > Rick Fox
  PG: Gary Payton > Steve Nash (These are two very different players as Payton was a defensive genius in addition to being well equipped on offense, where as Steve Nash is offensively brilliant in his own right, but generally not the best at defense). Although one could argue that they are equals or even Nash is better as evidenced by his MVP's at least one of which was a complete sham though.
  
  Overall I would say the 2003 Lakers were the more talented.[/FONT][/COLOR]

  LOL at a team with a completely washed up version of Malone and Payton being more talented. This team has by far more talent, with players more in their "primes"
• Fly4Fun

  

  Pick6;1285300 wrote:LOL at a team with a completely washed up version of Malone and Payton being more talented. This team has by far more talent, with players more in their "primes"

  I was talking about talent vs. ability... a distinction I made in the post itself. Talent being the guy at his prime (referencing Kobe's quote) as opposed to ability which would be what a guy could do at that time.
  
  So essentially my post was comparing to guys at their respective positions at their talent level (prime) not where they actually were in that stage of career (hence Kobe = Kobe despite him being a different player now).
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Fly4Fun;1285302 wrote:I was talking about talent vs. ability... a distinction I made in the post itself. Talent being the guy at his prime (referencing Kobe's quote) as opposed to ability which would be what a guy could do at that time.
  
  So essentially my post was comparing to guys at their respective positions at their talent level (prime) not where they actually were in that stage of career (hence Kobe = Kobe despite him being a different player now).

  Given this perspective, I think its an interesting debate. Personally I think Karl Malone is in the Reggie Miller (overrated) category. I think Gasol is a better player than he was. Peyton is a bit of a wild card, but overall I'd take Steve Nash over him. Shaq v Howard obv goes towards Shaq, but the gap between howard and Shaq isn't as big as Gasol and Malone IMO. I still think even with your caveat about talent vs ability, the current team has more talent/ability.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  [h=1]James Harden sounds like his heart is sold on Thunder, OKC[/h] [h=2]No other NBA team might have enough money to lure Harden away from Thunder Nation.[/h]
  
  
  James Harden says he wants to stay in Oklahoma City and play with the Thunder.
  He reiterated as much Monday at Thunder media day.
  “Of course I want to be here,” he said.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  But the clock continues to tick. Harden and the Thunder must agree on terms to a contract extension by the end of this month. An offer has been made, the sides are talking, but if a deal is not done by Oct. 31, the versatile guard will be eligible to become a restricted free agent next summer.
  If it gets to that point, there's no way the Thunder will be able to match the huge contract some team will surely offer him.
  
  
  That is the question Harden must ask and answer in these contract negotiations. Is he ready to leave a still youthful but supremely talented team that went to the NBA Finals last season? Ready to leave a nucleus that only seems to get better? Ready to leave a franchise that has built a culture that players rave about?
  Sure didn't sound like it Monday.
  Harden repeated his willingness to sacrifice to stay with the Thunder, asserting that a max contract wasn't a necessity. He even went so far as to say he believed a deal would be done by the Oct. 31 deadline.
  
  “That's why I'm not too worried about it,” he said.
  Maybe the Thunder can re-sign Harden after all.
  Crunching the numbers and listening to the qualifiers thrown around by the Thunder brass, it hasn't seemed like keeping Harden would be possible. Surely, he would want more money than the team could handle.
  Getting a deal done still seems like an extremely long shot — how much can the Thunder really offer without putting itself in luxury-tax jeopardy? — but listening to Harden on Monday, it didn't seem completely impossible.
  “We've built a brotherhood here, a brotherhood that's hard to break,” he said. “Other teams are just teammates, but we're really brothers.”
  More than anything, re-signing Harden is a test of the Thunder Way.
  Sam Presti is the architect of that system. The Thunder general manager has always said it was his intention to build a successful franchise that would be sustainable over the long term, even in a small market like Oklahoma City. That meant drafting players who were not only great players but also great teammates, putting a higher value on sacrifice and team than on ego and self, then affording those players every advantage in training, fitness, nutrition and medical know-how.
  The players, for example, are fed breakfast and lunch on practice days. That might seem small, but it's not something most teams do.
  
  [LEFT]
  Read more: http://newsok.com/james-harden-sounds-like-his-heart-is-sold-on-thunder-okc/article/3714924#ixzz28An6xea9
  [/LEFT]
• Trueblue23

  

  Fly4Fun;1285224 wrote:I think when he says talent it's typically regardless of current ability and this is reflected in this quote.
  
  
  
  Yes, Kobe, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol all are really talented, but do they have the ability to perform at their highest level now? Dwight is possibly the only one still in his prime.
  
  But on a purely talent level, I would still say the version with Kobe, Shaq, Gary Payton and Karl Malone was more talented.
  
  SG: Kobe = Kobe
  C: Shaq > Howard
  PF: Karl Malone > Pau Gasol
  SF: Crazy Idiot punching fans and throwing elbows > Rick Fox
  PG: Gary Payton > Steve Nash (These are two very different players as Payton was a defensive genius in addition to being well equipped on offense, where as Steve Nash is offensively brilliant in his own right, but generally not the best at defense). Although one could argue that they are equals or even Nash is better as evidenced by his MVP's at least one of which was a complete sham though.
  
  Overall I would say the 2003 Lakers were the more talented.[/FONT][/COLOR]

  A few things.. first off, those were the 2004 Lakers. Secondly.. Karl Malone better than Gasol? Malone average 13 ppg and 8 rbs his one year with the Lakers, we're killing Gasol because he only averaged 17 ppg and 10 rbs last year. And Payton better than Nash?! No freakin way. Payton was a horrible, horrible fit in LA, and the only thing he was useful for at that point in his career (defense) was terrible.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Appears Royce White, first round draft pick for the Rockets, hasn't shown up for camp.
  http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/10/rockets-rookie-royce-white-not-in-camp-did-not-travel-with-team/
  
  Really hope he can get his shit together, was looking forward to watching him in the NBA.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Trueblue23;1285649 wrote:A few things.. first off, those were the 2004 Lakers. Secondly.. Karl Malone better than Gasol? Malone average 13 ppg and 8 rbs his one year with the Lakers, we're killing Gasol because he only averaged 17 ppg and 10 rbs last year. And Payton better than Nash?! No freakin way. Payton was a horrible, horrible fit in LA, and the only thing he was useful for at that point in his career (defense) was terrible.

  A few responses...
  
  Those are the 2003-2004 Lakers.
  
  Once again, I already made clear that we are talking about the "talent" in the sense meaning at ones prime versus "ability" being what they did in that particular season. The reason I used that standard is because Kobe even used that meaning when talking about talent. He talked about talent as being at top of their position at one point or another. This addresses your point for Malone and Payton.
  
  Try reading and comprehending my entire post.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Lets try and keep this thread on topic please.
• GOONx19

  

  
  I know I'm a homer, and some of these players don't deserve their salaries, but this is still impressive.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Commander of Awesome;1286127 wrote:Lets try and keep this thread on topic please.

  Moderatorereerereeed.
• like_that

  

  Just got a notification stating Rasheed signed with the Knicks.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Bad signing for the Knicks IMO. Dude looked done in Boston, highly doubt he has anything left in the tank now. Seems like a desperation move.
• Azubuike24

  

  Outside of Prince, Rondo and Hayes, none of those guys have hit the market yet. Some other other undrafted/2nd rounders have, but that total number will likely be tripled in 6 years. Especially once the 2013 recruiting class hits NBA free agency...
• Trueblue23

  

  Fly4Fun;1286103 wrote:A few responses...
  
  Those are the 2003-2004 Lakers.
  
  Once again, I already made clear that we are talking about the "talent" in the sense meaning at ones prime versus "ability" being what they did in that particular season. The reason I used that standard is because Kobe even used that meaning when talking about talent. He talked about talent as being at top of their position at one point or another. This addresses your point for Malone and Payton.
  
  Try reading and comprehending my entire post.

  My bad, I didn't realize that you were talking about something that doesn't fucking matter. "Talent in their prime vs current ability", hot damn, how did the Wizards not win a title with MJ? Stupid.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  TTT so prescott doesn't get lost.
• lhslep134

  

  GOONx19;1286258 wrote: I know I'm a homer, and some of these players don't deserve their salaries, but this is still impressive.

  
  Impressive for sure, but you can't include Kanter on that list. Didn't play a single minute in an NCAA sanctioned regular season game.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Found this interesting. Seems every team is "modeling" themselves off of either the Spurs or OKC. Which I find humorous as both were extremely lucky in the draft (Duncan, Durrant). I'd like the Cavs to model the Lakers, gift trade rapes given by the NBA (Howard, Shaq, Gasol, Nash, almost CP3).
  
  Magic are Team Unconventional
  
  Franchise not afraid to try new things
  
  Brian Schmitz Magic Insider 8:37 p.m. EDT, October 3, 2012
  
  Magic coach Jacque Vaughn scrawls out copious notes by hand and is learning to master his iPad.
  He listens to jazz pianist Thelonious Monk and rapper Jay-Z.
  Vaughn would feel comfortable lunching at "the White House and White Castle."
  "My Mom instilled in me to being open about a lot of things," he said.
  Good thing.
  The Magic are open to trying just about anything to rebuild their basketball operation and turn it into a model of consistency. No detail is too trivial.
  They even want to check in on their players' sleep patterns, perhaps an impossible challenge. The NBA lifestyle is conducive to spawning notorious night owls and after-hours clubgoers.
  "We want to help guys understand that they have to get the right amount of sleep," Magic CEO Alex Martins said.
  The Magic have turned into Team Unconventional in many ways.
  They have the league's youngest GM in Rob Hennigan and the NBA's youngest coach in Vaughn.
  They are not only developing players, but developing coaches, having hired assistant Luke Stuckey, who was coaching high-school kids in California last year. Could you imagine Pat Riley hiring a guy who chaperoned at the prom?
  "It's about the type of people you hire and not being afraid to be innovative," Martins said.
  In the Magic's most extensive overhaul, they replaced the entire coaching and scouting staffs.
  They made 23 new hires in basketball operations and especially wanted people who had been exposed to winning. For instance, the Magic hired away Matt Lloyd, former director of scouting with the Chicago Bulls, who helped unearth forward Taj Gibson at No. 26 in the 2009 NBA Draft.
  At the first two Magic morning practices, a little gray-haired man named Gordon Chiesa sat on the far end of the floor, scribbling on a pad. He is Vaughn's Yoda. He has the most NBA experience on Vaughn's staff, but will be around for only about one week a month as a special adviser.
  The Magic want to leave no stone — or statistic — unturned. There's what Martins calls "an analytics team" in the building, people who crunch numbers and spot trends to aid Hennigan, coaches and scouts.
  "There's definitely a different approach now," shooting guard J.J. Redick said.
  The Magic have appeared in the Finals twice since their inaugural 1989 season. Martins says the franchise is searching for "the last 10 percent" to make their title dream a reality.
  "It all comes back to having a different foundational system than we had in the past," Martins said. "That's not to say we haven't had great success; we have. What we're trying to create is a consistency that maybe is stronger than what we had.
  "We've had some incredible valleys that have taken us years to recover from. We want to lessen, eliminate, the valleys. We've studied this."
  Martins said the Magic have studied models of how other teams sustained success, primarily the San Antonio Spurs. The Spurs won four titles from 1999-2007 and have reached the playoffs each of the past 15 seasons.
  "It's no secret that we're fond of what they've done in San Antonio," Martins said.
  He was so fond of the Spurs that he hired one of their former assistant general managers (Hennigan) and one of their former players and assistant coaches (Vaughn).
  "The Spurs did a great job of being innovative, especially for players," Vaughn said. "I've been in their cryosauna [where players' bodies are cooled to promote quicker healing] and it's better than the old cold plunge."
  The Spurs also experienced some good-old fashioned luck. Injuries doomed their 1996-97 season — and landed them Tim Duncan in the lottery.
  "A lot of things go into it, sure," Martins said. "It's not just one thing. It's a puzzle."
  The Magic are trying everything and anything to put the pieces together.
  http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-brian-schmitz-orlando-magic-1004-20121003,0,364087.column?track=rss
• Pick6

  

  Did OKC and SA get lucky, or are they good at scouting?