NBA 2012-13

• gport_tennis

  Trueblue23;1310172 wrote:I can def name 25 players I'd take over James Harden

  
  Well let's see it
• Classyposter58

  

  I think OKC will benefit from this trade despite that great article by Bill Simmons. Here's why, they're starting 5 has not been impacted, Martin averaged 19 PPG last season and Jeremy Lamb may become a pretty good player. Also they're getting a lottery pick from Houston since they have Toronto's. So this wasn't a bad trade even though James is an olympian and one of their best buddies. But it'll work out IMO just fine
• sportswizuhrd

  sleeper;1310034 wrote:Top 25 players aren't 6th men off the bench. There's a reason he wasn't a starter on OKC.

  He wouldn't have started on 6 other teams at the 2 spot? He isn't better than Sefolosha? Sefolosha was the starter when Harden was there and still will be. The reason why he was moved to the bench was because Jeff Green beat him out and Harden took on the role as the team's 6th man.
  
  I don't know if Harden is a top 25 player yet but should get there soon.
• wildcats20

  

  Trueblue23;1310172 wrote:I can def name 25 players I'd take over James Harden

  
  Not the question though.
• sleeper

  

  sportswizuhrd;1310280 wrote:He wouldn't have started on 6 other teams at the 2 spot? He isn't better than Sefolosha? Sefolosha was the starter when Harden was there and still will be. The reason why he was moved to the bench was because Jeff Green beat him out and Harden took on the role as the team's 6th man.
  
  I don't know if Harden is a top 25 player yet but should get there soon.

  Sure he's better than Sefolosha. Why wasn't he starting? Do you think Lebron or another top 25 player would be a 6th man? No.
• sleeper

  

  lhslep134;1310241 wrote:Thanks for the devoid of substance argument there Skip Bayless

  Way to ignore my other post. Fail.
• lhslep134

  

  sleeper;1310335 wrote:. Why wasn't he starting? Do you think another top 25 player would be a 6th man? No.

  Uhm yeah, Manu Ginobili.
• sportswizuhrd

  Tony Parker with the game tying 3 and then hits the first game winning buzzer beater of the season on a jumper.
• sleeper

  

  lhslep134;1310343 wrote:Uhm yeah, Manu Ginobili.

  Not a top 25 player either.
• sleeper

  

  Look at his career averages: 12.8 ppg, 2.5 apg, 3.4 rpg. That's a top 25 player? LOL

  James Harden. LOL
• lhslep134

  

  So Sleeper this is your argument so far against James Harden being a top 25 player:
  
  1) He didn't start for his own team
  2) 6th men can't be top 25 players
  3) His career averages
  
  Now let's show you how empty your argument is:
  
  1) Even if you don't think Manu Ginobili isn't a top 25 player this season, he has undeniably been a top 25 player at some point in his career and he doesn't start so that makes your 1st and 2nd arguments logical fallacies.
  
  2) Career averages have no relevancy in determining how good a player is this year.
  
  Apparently logics not your strong suit Sleeper. Best of luck finding a substantive argument, because yours lacks any.
  
  FAIL
• sleeper

  

  Oh right. I suppose it's better to use 1 data point than a collection of data points to determine the value of a player. Can I say Varejao is the best rebounder in the NBA? You do realize how far you are stretching to justify one of your favorite players as being worthy of a max contract. The guy isn't trash, but he reminds me of Joe Johnson in that he is being paid far above his value.
• lhslep134

  

  sleeper;1310479 wrote:Oh right. I suppose it's better to use 1 data point than a collection of data points to determine the value of a player. Can I say Varejao is the best rebounder in the NBA? You do realize how far you are stretching to justify one of your favorite players as being worthy of a max contract. The guy isn't trash, but he reminds me of Joe Johnson in that he is being paid far above his value.

  Now you're dancing around the fact that you have an argument devoid of substance. Oh sleeper, you humor me. I'm done "arguing" with you about this since you can't handle the fact you're wrong (talking about max players, since when is this argument about that? it's about being a top 25 player--you should know better).
• lhslep134

  

  Here's a couple more data points--last year (which, imo is irrelevant as well but is much more relevant than career averages)
  
  Harden: 20th in the NBA in value added, 20th in estimated wins added. Yeah, 1 data point. :rolleyes:
• sleeper

  

  lhslep134;1310483 wrote:Here's a couple more data points--last year (which, imo is irrelevant as well but is much more relevant than career averages)
  
  Harden: 20th in the NBA in value added, 20th in estimated wins added. Yeah, 1 data point. :rolleyes:

  Value added was last year. Stop using data points in the past to justify what will happen this year. :laugh:
• Trueblue23

  

  LeBron James
  Kevin Durant
  Kobe Bryant
  Dwayne Wade
  Dwight Howard
  Chris Paul
  Pau Gasol
  Rajon Rondo
  Russell Westbrook
  Andrew Bynum
  Kyrie Irving
  Chris Bosh
  Carmelo Anthony
  Dirk
  Tony Parker
  Derrick Rose
  Kevin Love
  LaMarcus Aldridge
  Blake Griffin
  Brook Lopez
  Josh Smith
  Marc Gasol
  Rudy Gay
  Joe Johson
  Manu Ginobli
• GOONx19

  

  lhslep134;1310476 wrote:So Sleeper this is your argument so far against James Harden being a top 25 player:
  he's never started so that makes your 1st and 2nd arguments logical fallacies. FAIL

  Ginobili started every game in the 2004-05 season. He also started half of the regular season games the season prior, and 36 of 75 games the following season. He also started two rounds in the playoffs in 2008.
• Pick6

  

  Trueblue23;1310565 wrote:LeBron James
  Kevin Durant
  Kobe Bryant
  Dwayne Wade
  Dwight Howard
  Chris Paul
  Pau Gasol
  Rajon Rondo
  Russell Westbrook
  Andrew Bynum
  Kyrie Irving
  Chris Bosh
  Carmelo Anthony
  Dirk
  Tony Parker
  Derrick Rose
  Kevin Love
  LaMarcus Aldridge
  Blake Griffin
  Brook Lopez
  Josh Smith
  Marc Gasol
  Rudy Gay
  Joe Johson
  Manu Ginobli

  I can think of problem 10 guy you could add as well. Guys like Duncan, Garnett, and Pierce are for sure above him, too.
• lhslep134

  

  GOONx19;1310603 wrote:Ginobili started every game in the 2004-05 season. He also started half of the regular season games the season prior, and 36 of 75 games the following season. He also started two rounds in the playoffs in 2008.

  Fair. I fixed it
• Footwedge

  lhslep134;1309680 wrote:I KNOW that you know what you're saying. And if I read you correctly, you're saying it in a serious yet jestful way. But did you watch him play at all last year? I got stuck watching every one of his games on FSArizona, and he was f*cking awesome. I don't see a dropoff, especially with someone like him, that would drop him from borderline MVP candidate to total scrub.

  Yes last year he was vintage. I'm saying that this year his clock has completed stopped. If you watched him play like I have THIS YEAR, then you would have to agree with my assessment. You act as if 39 year old people never lose it. Well they do. It also might be partly mental given that his ex wife started banging a team mate or two last year while they were still married.
  
  But it's not just Nash. It's no secret that Gasol is an overrated player, that Kobe has no interest in playing defense, and Metta Peace is a flaming pile of crud....who's also approaching the end of the line. As for DD. you can't even have him on the court late in a tight game.
  
  The team is pathetic...and I love it...because the public thinks the way you do....keeping the line on the games incredibly off. I've won 7 straight times betting against the Lake show....for the game, first halves and second halves. Tonight it's more free money in taking the Clips at minus .5 for the first half and minus 2 for the game.
  
  Just like the past 10 Laker games, the rocking chair will be rocking as I once again cash huge as another Laker blowout results.
  
  Funny thing is...i never bet basketball...until now. Free money is always nice.
• gport_tennis

  Trueblue23;1310565 wrote:LeBron James: obvi
  Kevin Durant: obvi
  Kobe Bryant: obvi
  Dwayne Wade: obvi
  Dwight Howard: obvi
  Chris Paul: obvi
  
  Love
  Aldridge
  Rajon Rondo
  Russell Westbrook
  Andrew Bynum
  Kyrie Irving
  Chris Bosh
  JAMES HARDEN
  Dirk
  Tony Parker
  Derrick Rose
  Blake Griffin
  Melo
  Brook Lopez
  Josh Smith
  Marc Gasol
  Rudy Gay
  Joe Johson
  Manu Ginobli

  
  Just a quick review of your list but that's where I would put him. Easily ahead of gay,Smith, and melo. If 2010-2011 dirk comes back you can move him up, last year dirk harden is better
• Automatik

  

  Regarding Harden....top 25 player, right now? I'd say no. Possible top 25 talent? Absolutely.
  
  I'm not sure if he was worth a max deal and is a "foundation player", but he sure looked damn good against the lowly Pistons.
  
  I forgot he was only 23. Get that money kid!
• Hb31187

  

  Harden ahead of Melo Rose ect ect.....are you fully or just partially retarded?
• Automatik

  

  Marc Gasol....LOL.
  
  I think you also gotta take other things into account such as their age and stage of their career.
  
  Would you give Melo max deal paper at this point in his career? I don't think so.
• Ironman92

  

  Trueblue23;1310565 wrote:LeBron James
  Kevin Durant
  Kobe Bryant
  Dwayne Wade
  Dwight Howard
  Chris Paul
  Pau Gasol
  Rajon Rondo
  Russell Westbrook
  Andrew Bynum
  Kyrie Irving
  Chris Bosh
  Carmelo Anthony
  Dirk
  Tony Parker
  Derrick Rose
  Kevin Love
  LaMarcus Aldridge
  Blake Griffin
  Brook Lopez
  Josh Smith
  Marc Gasol
  Rudy Gay
  Joe Johson
  Manu Ginobli

  
  Deron Williams
  Danny Granger