Away We go!>>> Opening Day ..Tribe vs. Blue Jays.

• bases_loaded

  

  BR1986FB;1138379 wrote:Acta is terrible. Whoever created this "gotta bring in the closer" mentality (think it was LaRussa) is a damn fool. Let him (Masterson) at least go out there for the start of the 9th.

  
  Pitch count? And the closer has one job and gets paid well to do it.
• BR1986FB

  bases_loaded;1138380 wrote:Pitch count? And the closer has one job and gets paid well to do it.

  I don't give a fuck about pitch count. He had 99 pitches and just struck out the side in the 8th. Send him out there for the 9th. What's the worst that can happen...he throws 110 pitches, a complete game, and they win? This "pitch count" bullshit has turned starters into a bunch of pussies. That "pitch count/formula" pitching sure as Hell worked out in 1997 when Hargrove was such a "genius" and overthought things in the World Series. I agree with Nolan Ryan.
• bases_loaded

  

  BR1986FB;1138381 wrote:I don't give a **** about pitch count. He had 99 pitches and just struck out the side in the 8th. Send him out there for the 9th. What's the worst that can happen...he throws 110 pitches, a complete game, and they win? This "pitch count" bull**** has turned starters into a bunch of pussies. That "pitch count/formula" pitching sure as Hell worked out in 1997 when Hargrove was such a "genius" and overthought things in the World Series. I agree with Nolan Ryan.

  
  Didn't watch the game was just asking.
  
  If Acta leaves masterson in and he gets shelled, you're all calling for his head for not bringing Perez in.
  
  In other words stfu
• BR1986FB

  bases_loaded;1138388 wrote:Didn't watch the game was just asking.
  
  If Acta leaves masterson in and he gets shelled, you're all calling for his head for not bringing Perez in.
  
  In other words stfu

  That's why your reliever is warming up in the bullpen to start the 9th. If Masterson shows any signs of trouble you bring in your (injured/only pitched 3 innings in spring training) closer. And, no...I'm NOT calling for Acta's head if he brings Masterson out because I hate this "formula" baseball that says it's a "must" to bring in the closer so he pads those stats with that "save" if it's a 3 run lead or less.:rolleyes:
• bases_loaded

  

  Don't think its a stat padding thing as much as its a this guy has one job, get outs to end the game thing.
• BR1986FB

  Yeah, and I believe LaRussa created it. It's not always necessary. It's overused.
• bases_loaded

  

  Fucking tony and his world series rings
• TBone14

  

  Crazy game. We will be fine, though. Couple of thoughts.
  
  1. You have to pull Masterson there. 99 pitches in the cold on April 5th. Gotta think big picture. The Phillies pulled Halladay with 1-0 lead yesterday after 8 and he wasn't even at 100 pitches and had only given up 2 hits.
  
  2. Chris Perez is not healthy. I don't understand why Pestano wasn't the closer until Perez got some more work in. This was the biggest mistake.
  
  
  3. I'm not worried about the lack of runs. They had opportunities and just didn't cash in. It happens but of course it is magnified because it is opening day. Plus those middle innings at that time of day is tough to hit with the shadows. Neither team could muster anything until Gasoline on a Fire Perez came in.
  
  
  Let's not get too discouraged over a game. But if they have lead going into the 9th inning on Saturday and Pestano doesn't come out of that bullpen...I may come unglued.
• vball10set

  This is just a harbinger of things to come, people--better get used to it
• ricola

  

  ^^ agree. This team has multiple problems.
• like_that

  

  TBone14;1138409 wrote:Crazy game. We will be fine, though. Couple of thoughts.
  
  1. You have to pull Masterson there. 99 pitches in the cold on April 5th. Gotta think big picture. The Phillies pulled Halladay with 1-0 lead yesterday after 8 and he wasn't even at 100 pitches and had only given up 2 hits.
  
  2. Chris Perez is not healthy. I don't understand why Pestano wasn't the closer until Perez got some more work in. This was the biggest mistake.
  
  
  3. I'm not worried about the lack of runs. They had opportunities and just didn't cash in. It happens but of course it is magnified because it is opening day. Plus those middle innings at that time of day is tough to hit with the shadows. Neither team could muster anything until Gasoline on a Fire Perez came in.
  
  
  Let's not get too discouraged over a game. But if they have lead going into the 9th inning on Saturday and Pestano doesn't come out of that bullpen...I may come unglued.

  I applaud you for your optimism.
• HitsRus

  

  The Tribe all but handed the Blue Jays a gift wrapped win, playing giveaway at crucial points in the game. Manny Acta was badly outmanaged.
  
  Commenting on the blown opportunity in the 12th inning when the indians loaded the bases....
  
  Kipnis walked with one out, went to third on a Hanahan single,.... the BJ's changed pitchers bringing in Luis Perez (no relation to Chris) who promptly walked Brantley on 4 very wild pitches. Druby swings at the first pitch...a borderline strike at best...and graciously bounces into an inning ending DP....WTF?
  Way to help a struggling pitcher out of a jam.
  
  Post game, Acta would not publicly criticize Cabrera (hopefully he ripped him a new asshole in private) saying "Asdrubal is the guy I want up there. Give that to me 100 times He just tried to do too much." ....duh!
  "I wanted him to get a pitch and whack it to win the game."....not buying into the arguement that it might have been wiser to make a wild Perez actually throw a strike with the bases loaded and the game on the line.
  
  What's hard to buy is that if Acta is going to go by the book and bring in his closer in the ninth, why did he throw the book out in this situation. "Give that to me 100 times. "
  
  Oh, god...I hope not.
• BR1986FB

  HitsRus;1138435 wrote:The Tribe all but handed the Blue Jays a gift wrapped win, playing giveaway at crucial points in the game. Manny Acta was badly outmanaged.
  
  Commenting on the blown opportunity in the 12th inning when the indians loaded the bases....
  
  Kipnis walked with one out, went to third on a Hanahan single,.... the BJ's changed pitchers bringing in Luis Perez (no relation to Chris) who promptly walked Brantley on 4 very wild pitches. Druby swings at the first pitch...a borderline strike at best...and graciously bounces into an inning ending DP....WTF?
  Way to help a struggling pitcher out of a jam.
  
  Post game, Acta would not publicly criticize Cabrera (hopefully he ripped him a new asshole in private) saying "Asdrubal is the guy I want up there. Give that to me 100 times He just tried to do too much." ....duh!
  "I wanted him to get a pitch and whack it to win the game."....not buying into the arguement that it might have been wiser to make a wild Perez actually throw a strike with the bases loaded and the game on the line.
  
  What's hard to buy is that if Acta is going to go by the book and bring in his closer in the ninth, why did he throw the book out in this situation. "Give that to me 100 times. "
  
  Oh, god...I hope not.

  That's another screw up on Acta's part. Should've told Cabrera in "no way, shape or form are you swinging at the first pitch with how wild this guy is."
• BRF

  

  I am a big believer in letting the current pitcher go on if things are going well. I will never understand this "changing horses in the middle of the stream" mentality. Your pitcher has just struck out the side. Let him continue. It ain't rocket science.
• TBone14

  

  BR1986FB;1138442 wrote:That's another screw up on Acta's part. Should've told Cabrera in "no way, shape or form are you swinging at the first pitch with how wild this guy is."

  Cabrera is a professional baseball player and turning into a damn fine one at that. He should know the situation not need his hand held at the plate. Cabrera needs to be responsible for swinging at that pitch...not the manager. I'm sure he spoke with Asdrubal about it after the game and then did the right thing and didn't throw his player under the bus to the media.
• bases_loaded

  

  TBone14;1138488 wrote:Cabrera is a professional baseball player and turning into a damn fine one at that. He should know the situation not need his hand held at the plate. Cabrera needs to be responsible for swinging at that pitch...not the manager. I'm sure he spoke with Asdrubal about it after the game and then did the right thing and didn't throw his player under the bus to the media.

  
  Amen
  
  Same with Perez.
  
  If they do their job there is no qq about Acta
• TBone14

  

  BRF;1138486 wrote:I am a big believer in letting the current pitcher go on if things are going well. I will never understand this "changing horses in the middle of the stream" mentality. Your pitcher has just struck out the side. Let him continue. It ain't rocket science.

  It's a good thing you arn't the manager then because you wouldn't have any pitchers by August because their arms will have fallen off.
• Laley23

  

  As I've said, my only issue is why Perez was the closer to begin with. It wasn't buy 6 weeks ago Pestano was the closer until Perez got some work. Well he comes back and pitches like 2 times since the injury? That's not work. Even if you go with Perez to start, it was clear he was having issues (looked like not healthy by the velocity). At that point, make the change.
• TBone14

  

  Laley23;1138494 wrote:As I've said, my only issue is why Perez was the closer to begin with. It wasn't buy 6 weeks ago Pestano was the closer until Perez got some work. Well he comes back and pitches like 2 times since the injury? That's not work. Even if you go with Perez to start, it was clear he was having issues (looked like not healthy by the velocity). At that point, make the change.

  Agree with this 100%.
• HitsRus

  

  Cabrera needs to be responsible for swinging at that pitch...not the manager. I'm sure he spoke with Asdrubal about it after the game and then did the right thing and didn't throw his player under the bus to the media.

  Sometimes managers give 'the green light" to veteran players who they trust to make things happen. Stuff like that doesn't earn that trust. While I appreciate that Acta didn't throw his player 'under the bus' adding the comment that he wanted "him to take a whack ...(at it)... and win the game". is going a little out of the way to protect your player from criticism.
  Cabrera is about a 'veteran' player as we have on the team, and he can't be trusted not to make rookie mistake? Actually, it's not a rookie mistake...it's as some on this thread said earlier...it's a little league mistake. Maybe that's what happens when you don't have enough veteran leadership or a manager not doing his job.
  
  I know it's only 1 game out 162, but that game was gift wrapped and sealed with a kiss... Just a terrible way to start the season. Instead of sending 43,000 people home happy with a warm fuzzy feeling, you sent half of them home early grumbling...and the rest cold, discouraged, and disappointed.
  Now if they go on and start 30-15...I'll be happy to STFU. But today, I'm calling it like I see it.
• Footwedge

  bases_loaded;1138491 wrote:Amen
  
  Same with Perez.
  
  If they do their job there is no qq about Acta

  So let me get this straight. You're OK with bringing in a guy who has thrown a total of 3 innings in preseason....without anyone else warming up in the pen in case the man doesn't have it? Are you serious?
  
  Pestano should have been in to face Bautista, after the first 2 guys hit ropes. Let's not forget that Bautista just missed hiting a 3 run homer into the wind...in deep right center. This one is all on Manny Acta. He does not want to win baseball games, period.
  
  Tell you what...Jim Leyland wins yesterday's game...if he has Acta's job.
• grodt

  

  bases_loaded;1138372 wrote:Isn't it a ND for him?

  True. I guess it just felt like a loss since he deserved the win.
  
  I feel that the only thing on Acta is the overall decision to push Perez back into the closers role so soon after coming back from injury. But if you decide that he's healthy enough to close, you gotta treat him like the closer and yesterday that's what they did. I don't necessarily agree with letting a closer stay in until he completely implodes, but that's something we have no control over. Just buckle up and try not to get thrown.
  
  Also agree that Acta doesn't need to rip Asdrubal in the media. I'm sure it was addressed in the locker room after the game.
• BR1986FB

  Footwedge;1138503 wrote:So let me get this straight. You're OK with bringing in a guy who has thrown a total of 3 innings in preseason....without anyone else warming up in the pen in case the man doesn't have it? Are you serious?
  
  Pestano should have been in to face Bautista, after the first 2 guys hit ropes. Let's not forget that Bautista just missed hiting a 3 run homer into the wind...in deep right center. This one is all on Manny Acta. He does not want to win baseball games, period.
  
  Tell you what...Jim Leyland wins yesterday's game...if he has Acta's job.

  
  But wait...we wouldn't want to hurt Pure Rage's "confidence" by yanking him....:rolleyes:
• Glory Days

  

  TBone14;1138493 wrote:It's a good thing you arn't the manager then because you wouldn't have any pitchers by August because their arms will have fallen off.

  he was at 99 pitches. put a 10 pitch limit on him. that might be enough to get atleast 1, maybe 2 outs. if they keep playing like this, masterson will get plenty of rest at the end of the season when the minor league pitchers come up here and there.
• HitsRus

  

  you gotta treat him like the closer

  yeah I gotta problem with that....and the same thing with not giving Druby a take sign. Too much catering to egos.
  Acta's the manager...he should do what has to be done to to win the game. That's a statement that needs to be made early in the season.....that what's important is the win, not stroking your star players' egos.