Cleveland Indians Hot Stove---2011-2012

• The Answer

  Read some speculation on another site that the big move was trying to trade for Carlos Lee of the Astros to play 1st base. No idea if true just what they were saying.
• grodt

  

  Only if the Astros agree to eat a majority of his salary ala Derek Lowe. He's owed $18.5 million next season.
• OQB

  

  still waiting.....
• HitsRus

  

  Patience.....
• grodt

  

  I always forget that this was Shapiro's first big trade. Now he made up for it a bit with the Colon trade but this one hurt. Injuries played a major role but don't they always?
  
  For those who feel like beating your head against a desk: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2011/12/what-could-have-been-robbie-alomar.html#comment-form
• Laley23

  

  grodt;1013717 wrote:I always forget that this was Shapiro's first big trade. Now he made up for it a bit with the Colon trade but this one hurt. Injuries played a major role but don't they always?
  
  For those who feel like beating your head against a desk: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2011/12/what-could-have-been-robbie-alomar.html#comment-form

  I had HUGE hopes for Alex Escobar. I didnt know the extent of those injuries until that read. Kind of pissed I gave Shapiro a slide and blamed injuries on that one...clearly a dumb trade based on his history.
• grodt

  

  I was in the same boat about Escobar. I had no idea he had that kind of injury history. Looking back that was a really dumb risk to take.
• BR1986FB

  Heard on 92.3 driving home that the Tribe is out of the running for Willingham. Minnesota's the front runner.
• grodt

  

  Frankly for what he's probably going to sign for he isn't worth it. Our most likely option for acquiring a player right now is via trade.
• like_that

  

  grodt;1013717 wrote:I always forget that this was Shapiro's first big trade. Now he made up for it a bit with the Colon trade but this one hurt. Injuries played a major role but don't they always?
  
  For those who feel like beating your head against a desk: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2011/12/what-could-have-been-robbie-alomar.html#comment-form

  Doesn't matter who they would have recieved in that trade. None of those players would have been signed to stay in Cleveland.
• HitsRus

  

  I heard it was down to the Twins and the Tribe. for Willingham....frankly, I think you go the extra mile and get him.
  
  29 HRs from the right side would look mighty nice in a Tribe uni.
  
  
  edit....ESPN reporting Willingham to the Twins pending a physical
  
  Way to go Paul! ..2nd place again.
• grodt

  

  like_that;1014002 wrote:Doesn't matter who they would have recieved in that trade. None of those players would have been signed to stay in Cleveland.

  Maybe not at the end of their rookie contracts but they would have been here for 6 years and most likely still here for the run in 2007. Imagine David Wright and/or Jose Reyes on those teams.
• OQB

  

  This front office is a joke.....
• HitsRus

  

  Latest ....the Twins insist that the deal for Willingham is not done (they are still holding out for Cuddyer)....even as the Indians Mark Shapiro starts making excuses, tweeting that Willingham is a good fit offensively...but not defensively.
• grodt

  

  It's not really an excuse, it's a fact. Willingham is a terrible defender. The more I hear and read the more I am sour on signing Willingham if the contract is the reported 3 year/$9-10 million a year
• HitsRus

  

  Seriously?...You can find all kinds of excuses...do you want a bat or not? Whatever. You are not going to find much better in that price range.
  
  I think you make a decision to try to improve the team. I don't think adding Derrek Lowe and standing pat is much of an improvement. Any player capable of making an impact is going to cost you either money or players.
• hoops23

  

  I do not want Willingham. Not sure why you guys are getting all excited about him. He's an average player with above average pop and below average - average.
  
  He's definitely not worth 10 million bucks. I can picture it now, we sign this guy for 10 mill, then in 2 years when he's hitting 13 homers or not playing due to injury, the same guys clamoring for him will be bitching at the FO for signing him to that much $$$.
  
  Seriously, the guy is not worth that. He's not going to make us a playoff team, because he's not that big of a difference maker.
• grodt

  

  You're right they aren't going to find better on the free agent market but I think there is more value through trade. The price that the Twins are reportedly paying ($7 million) isn't bad but 3 years is a long time for a player on the decline of his career. The last 30-something hitter we signed long term didn't work out well and we've been hampered by that contact for the last 3 years.
  
  Again our biggest assets are trade pieces not money to throw at free agents.
• like_that

  

  You guys complain about Dolan not throwing any money, and when he finally might, you don't support the move.
  
  /OCTRIBELOGIC
• HitsRus

  

  The other way to look at this is that Hafner will be gone next year, so the defensive 'liability' that people are now crying about disappears as he takes on more of a DH role. Sorry, I don't get what is so bad about 29 HRs and 98 RBI's. If you can get that without having to give up any of your own talent, why would you be against that.?
• Commander of Awesome

  

  [h=1]Source: Willingham, Twins Agree To Deal[/h]
  
  
  
  Dec 14, 2011 2:09 AM EST
  Veteran Josh Willingham has reached agreement on a multiyear deal with the Twins pending completion of a physical exam, according to a league source.
  Willingham, 32, is a career .262 hitter with 132 home runs for the Marlins, Nationals and A's. He batted .246 with a career-high 29 homers and 98 RBIs for Oakland in 2011.
  
  
  No worries Tribe fans, we were just a pawn to increase his contract.
• BR1986FB

  What is sad about the Willingham situation is that I'd heard he was looking for $10 million+ per year and that would take the Tribe out of the bidding. When I hear that Minny got him for, I believe, a million per year more than he made last year, just confirms Dolan's cheapness.
  
  They'd better swing some kind of trade or we have the giant Derek Lowe/Grady Sizemore "splashes" to look forward to this year.
• Wooball

  

  Not so fast, Tribe in serious discussions w/ Jose Lopez. All-Star a few seasons ago, still just 28. Can play most infield positions. Hits right-handed. Sounds great.
  
  Except for the fact he has been awful the last 2 years and was designated for assignment twice last season.
• HitsRus

  

  They'd better swing some kind of trade or we have the giant Derek Lowe/Grady Sizemore "splashes" to look forward to this year

  Those 'splashes' are the noise of treading water...Lowe less than perfectly replaces Carlos Carrasco, and Sizemore probably will not be the player he once was.
  
  Lopez does sound a lot like a Tribe move. Taking a flyer on a rehab project trying to catch lightning in a bottle. If they do sign him...get an option.
• Mulva

  

  HitsRus;1014328 wrote:Sorry, I don't get what is so bad about 29 HRs and 98 RBI's. If you can get that without having to give up any of your own talent, why would you be against that.?

  Because he's 32, and those were career high numbers. The 3 previous years were 15/51, 24/61, and 16/56. That's not worth $9 million or whatever the offer was.
  
  I'm against spending money just to say you spent money. If he was a 25-30 HR and 90-100 RBI guy every year it's a no brainer, even with his poor average and poor defense. But he isn't.