Soooo....NASCAR, is it dead?

• Mooney44Cards

  

  Jimmie Johnson won his fifth title in a row. The sport is boring. There are like 36 races and 24 of them are for the most part meaningless. I used to be a huge fan, went to at least one race every year for almost a decade. Haven't been back for awhile now. Can't remember the last time I sat down to purposely watch a race.
  
  So, has Jimmie Johnson officially murdered what was once one of America's most popular sports? Is the Chase the true culprit?
  
  Just to feed the fire here:
  
  NASCAR champions with old, boring, points system
  
  2006: Jimmie Johnson
  2007: Jeff Gordon
  2008: Carl Edwards
  2009: Jimmie Johnson
  2010: Kevin Harvick
  
  NASCAR champions with new, exciting, chase points system (parity!!!)
  
  2006: Jimmie Johnson
  2007: Jimmie Johnson
  2008: Jimmie Johnson
  2009: Jimmie Johnson
  2010: Jimmie Johnson
  
  Yikes.
  
  RIP NASCAR 1948-2010
• j_crazy

  

  IMO. probably.
  
  something's got to change. the car, the chase, the tracks. it's just boring anymore.
• End of Line

  

  They need to get rid of the Chase.
• Heretic

  

  j_crazy;571235 wrote:IMO. probably.
  
  something's got to change. the car, the chase, the tracks. it's just boring anymore.

  
  IMO:
  
  1. Too much mediocrity on the track. Dump it from 43 cars to 30 or so in a race. Only 31 cars ran all 36 races. If you look at the full-season standings, you have such gems as Dave Blaney (37th in standings, DNF 21/29) and Joe Nemechek (38th in standings, DNF 30/31). Why should 43 cars be in the "big" race, when so many of them are inept losers?
  
  2. Altering the points system to reward excellence more than competence. As in more points for doing things like winning and leading a lot of laps and less points just for being a solid driver week-in and week-out who never seems to excel.
  
  3. Dump the Chase. The champion should be the best driver from beginning to end, not the best of a particular 12 guys over the final few races. Sure, it prevents a guy from running away from everyone and making the final month of races a "who cares" series of events, but it's kind of cheap when a guy has a season like Kyle Busch did for most of last year, but is relegated to being an also-ran after he opened the Chase with a couple of bad races. Like, what would you think of the NBA or NHL if 56 games into the year, the league office said that only 12 teams were eligible for the championship. They all would start 0-0 and all 30 or whatever teams would play out the final 26 games with the team of those 12 who ended up with the best 26-game record would be crowned the champ. It'd be considered the biggest joke ever and it is what the Chase is.
  
  3. As far as the car/tracks, I really can't say much other than it's kind of funny that NASCAR gives lip service to road course by having 2/36 races on road tracks, with neither of them in the Chase. I'd think they should either bump it to a respectable number of road course races or eliminate them completely. And if my #1 would get enacted, I'd say that more shorter tracks would be necessary to keep competition packed to where things stay at an interesting level.
  
  4. This isn't porn, size doesn't necessarily mean better. With a series dominated by 500-mile races with a couple hitting 600, you have a ton of races that might start and finish exciting, but have an agonizingly-dull middle section. I was at a friend's place for the Subway 600 early this season. About 150-200 into it, we were like, "Sweet jebus, we're not even a third of the way into this shit..." and switched over to watch something else. When it was over with, we went back to the race for the final 100 or so. That's what I like about IndyCar. You have that one big spectacle blockbuster race (Indy 500) and most of the rest are 200-300 mile events that take a couple hours to complete. NASCAR wants every race to be this all-day spectacle and the end result is that many of the races have long stretches of "watching paint dry" levels of excitement.
• GoChiefs

  

  Mooney44Cards;571229 wrote:So, has Jimmie Johnson officially murdered what was once one of America's most popular sports? Is the Chase the true culprit?

  
  I don't think he's murdered it just yet. He's helped, A LOT. But there is still life there. Is the Chase the culprit? I don't believe so at all. I gave a list on the other thread of what, in my opinion, is killing the sport. I'll dive further into those.
  
  1) Mostly, t's the new car, because the racing just isn't as good as it was before. You get 150 laps in the middle of the race now where they do nothing but ride around. Then with 60 laps to go, they want to start driving and racing to the front. That's all because these cars are just too damn 'equal'. With the old car, if you just rode around for 150 laps, you were going to the back, and you wouldn't be able to get back up to the front of the pack.
  
  2) One driver winning all the time - For obvious reasons.
  
  3) Favoritism towards some drivers - NASCAR definitely has to start being more consistent with fines and penalties. You can't fine the Kevin Conway's $50,000 for doing something and then the Dale Jr's $5,000 dollars for doing the same thing the very next week. It's not a big deal, but it does turn some people off.
  
  4) Changing the rules in the middle of the season - people want consistency.
  
  5) The boring ass commentators you have, as if those 150 laps of just riding around aren't bad enough, then you have Mike Joy, Allan Bestwick, Brad Daugherty, Chris Myers, etc, talking. And IMO, they just aren't very good at keeping you tuned in to the race. They make you want to fall asleep.
  
  6) The politics
  
  7) The Length of some races, with the new car, 4 hours at California, Michigan, Pocono, etc is just WAY too much riding around.
  
  8) Have become WAY too fucking corporate and have forgotten about your roots, Don't get me wrong, I know you have to expand to other markets, but for example, dropping Rockingham to travel to California? Really? Expansion is great, but expand to good tracks!
  
  9) The current drivers don't have personalities like they once did. Blame that on you NASCAR for being too over reactive with fines/suspensions whenever a driver would let their true personalities show. Granted, they are trying to ease up on that, but it will take the drivers a little bit to really believe that and let themselves come out.
  
  10) The Chase format. I think it's a small part of it, but it has turned some people off. I mean, essentially, if you are one of the top guys in the sport, you know you will make the Chase with ease, so the first 26 races of the season are absolutely pointless. Why should a driver bust his ass all year long just to have everything he worked for taken away? And if they do what is being rumored, resetting the points again with 2 or 3 races to go, I think that would be a very stupid move.
  
  11) Length of the season. 36 races is just way too damn many. Our season starts in February and ends in November. What other sport has a season that long? Cut it back 10 races to where NASCAR ends when football begins in September. Fans only have 2 months off, that's barely enough time to get excited for the next season to start.
  
  Those are just a few of many problems in NASCAR right now, IMO.
• se-alum

  

  I used to be a big Nascar fan, but probably haven't watched a race in the last 2 years. I miss the days of Davey Allison, Earnhardt, Kulwicki, Rusty, and a few other greats. The COT and The Chase are slowly killing NASCAR.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  I watched a few races this year, less than usual. I think I caught Bristol, Indy, both road courses, and the 500.
  Some solutions in addition to those already mentioned.
  1. Cut the tracks. No need to go to most of the tracks twice. Daytona, Talledaga, Bristol and Charlotte should be the only two time tracks.
  2. Change the cars. I get the safety concerns for the COT, but its awful. Find a way to reconfigure the car.
  3. Eliminate super teams. Teams can only have 3 drivers per.
  4. Eliminate the chase. It makes no sense. Regular points formats have worked in Indy cars and F-1 as the last few seasons each series came down to the last race.
• Mooney44Cards

  

  They need a new image to go along with a complete overhaul of many of the problems that have been mentioned on this thread. They need to flat out reach out to casual fans, and former fans (such as myself) and show people that this is still the sport they once loved and they are making it better. They need the old Tony Stewart along with some fiery other drivers to grab headlines and get people to watch.
• GoChiefs

  

  ptown_trojans_1;571290 wrote:1. Cut the tracks. No need to go to most of the tracks twice. Daytona, Talledaga, Bristol and Charlotte should be the only two time tracks.

  
  You don't even need Bristol twice. They absolutely ruined that track when they repaved it. Side by side racing is NOT what made Bristol special. When you think of Bristol, the last thing that comes to your mind is 100 straight green flag laps!
  
  Daytona x 2
  Phoenix
  Las Vegas
  Bristol
  Martinsville
  Texas
  Talladega x 2
  Richmond
  Darlington x 2
  Dover
  Charlotte x 2
  Kansas
  Pocono
  Sonoma
  Loudon x 2
  Indianapolis
  Watkins Glen
  Atlanta
  Chicago
  Iowa
  Rockingham
  North Wilkesboro Speedway
• ytownfootball

  

  Not a fan, but never understood why the "Superbowl" was at the beginning of the season.
• slide22

  Those who are saying it is the car have absolutely no idea about racing. The races with the old car were just as boring, there was just a bigger gap in the competition 7-8 years ago. The super-teams are so close as far as technology and engineering, that it ruins the racing. Blaming the new car is an easy excuse; However, it does need some changes, IE. the new nose coming next year, more brand recognition, etc.
  
  Anyways, you guys want exciting racing, support your local sprint car track or the World of Outlaws/USAC. Best form of auto racing in the country.
• Speedofsand

  

  People in Ohio don't realize how good they have it with all those good tracks. There are only a few dirt tracks down here.
• slide22

  Speedofsand;571473 wrote:People in Ohio don't realize how good they have it with all those good tracks. There are only a few dirt tracks down here.

  
  Yep. JMO but KC Raceway in Chillicothe is the best 410 winged sprint car racing in the country. Attica and Fremont up north have some of the best local competition in the country and Indiana is home of the wingless sprint cars.
  
  One of the reasons of the dwindling popularity of NASCAR is Dale Jr. is not competitive. I know he's not very talented, but NASCAR needs to find a way to get him winning races or atleast somewhat competitive.
• friendfromlowry

  Dear NASCAR fans,
  Why has Jimmie Johnson been able to kill the sport into representativeness and won the past five years? What is he doing different that's given him such an edge?
  
  Sincerely,
  An outsider
  
  P.S. This isn't rhetorical. I really am clueless yet interested.
• Mooney44Cards

  

  friendfromlowry;571483 wrote:Dear NASCAR fans,
  Why has Jimmie Johnson been able to kill the sport into representativeness and won the past five years? What is he doing different that's given him such an edge?
  
  Sincerely,
  An outsider
  
  P.S. This isn't rhetorical. I really am clueless yet interested.

  
  Because he happens to be really good at the last 10 tracks, which happen to be the only ones that really count.
• Gardens35

  Top 25 qualifiers, 50 Lap Feature. Every week. You'll find out who the best DRIVER is.
• GoChiefs

  

  friendfromlowry;571483 wrote:Dear NASCAR fans,
  Why has Jimmie Johnson been able to kill the sport into representativeness and won the past five years? What is he doing different that's given him such an edge?
  
  Sincerely,
  An outsider
  
  P.S. This isn't rhetorical. I really am clueless yet interested.

  
  Mooney hit it on the head. No denying Jimmie Johnson is damn good. But, as evident by his first post, under the old format, which includes ALL the races, he would be a 2 time Champion. Not 5. Everyone talks about "Oh he's a cheater" and blah, blah, blah. But this is NASCAR. You're not going to get away with anything that gives you THAT big of an advantage. Could they be something to their cars? Sure, every team pushes the envelope. But I highly doubt they could get away with anything that would cause them to have that much of an advantage. He drives for the best owner in NASCAR, he has the best Crew Chief in NASCAR, and one of the top pit crews in NASCAR. Add that in with the fact that 85% of the last 10 races are tracks he is GREAT at, he's gonna win the Championship. That's why NASCAR is highly considering rotating the tracks in the Chase starting in 2012. I don't think NASCAR even wanted Jimmie Johnson to win the Championship. They know it's bad for business.
• 2quik4u

  

  GoChiefs;571618 wrote:Mooney hit it on the head. No denying Jimmie Johnson is damn good. But, as evident by his first post, under the old format, which includes ALL the races, he would be a 2 time Champion. Not 5. Everyone talks about "Oh he's a cheater" and blah, blah, blah. But this is NASCAR. You're not going to get away with anything that gives you THAT big of an advantage. Could they be something to their cars? Sure, every team pushes the envelope. But I highly doubt they could get away with anything that would cause them to have that much of an advantage. He drives for the best owner in NASCAR, he has the best Crew Chief in NASCAR, and one of the top pit crews in NASCAR. Add that in with the fact that 85% of the last 10 races are tracks he is GREAT at, he's gonna win the Championship. That's why NASCAR is highly considering rotating the tracks in the Chase starting in 2012. I don't think NASCAR even wanted Jimmie Johnson to win the Championship. They know it's bad for business.

  
  You gotta remember you dont have to win the first 24 races they only have to qualify for the top 12 so they dont have to race hard every race for the first 24, jimmie can coast.
• Gardens35

  Any of you long time short track fans remember the "Australian Pursuit" race on the Fri/Sat night card?
• GoChiefs

  

  slide22;571432 wrote:Those who are saying it is the car have absolutely no idea about racing.

  
  Yeah, I know just a little bit about racing. And I'm saying it's the car. Just the car? No. But it's playing a part in it. If you think it's not, you need to open your eyes and ears. You don't have to know anything about racing to see the car has hurt the sport.
• GoChiefs

  

  2quik4u;571624 wrote:You gotta remember you dont have to win the first 24 races they only have to qualify for the top 12 so they dont have to race hard every race for the first 24, jimmie can coast.

  
  Jimmie doesn't "coast". That's not the 48 teams motto. They go out and try to win every week. They don't want to just 'qualify' for the Top 12. They want to win every race they can.
• 2quik4u

  

  GoChiefs;571638 wrote:Jimmie doesn't "coast". That's not the 48 teams motto. They go out and try to win every week. They don't want to just 'qualify' for the Top 12. They want to win every race they can.

  
  i dont care what their motto is, the season is the longest in sports you can't go hard every time
• GoChiefs

  

  Another thing that's hurting the sport, look back, you had Petty vs Pearson/Allison, Yarborough vs The Allisons/Waltrip, Gordon/Wallace/Waltrip/The World vs Earhardt Sr., Waltrip vs Allison/Baker, Spencer vs Busch, Ford vs Chevy. NASCAR is lacking that 'rivalry' like they seemed to always have.
  
  I read this somewhere once and couldn't agree more, went something like "NASCAR greatly overestimated its place in the national sporting picture, tried too hard to appeal to everybody, failed, and as a result alienated a good portion of its base."
• GoChiefs

  

  2quik4u;571643 wrote:i dont care what their motto is, the season is the longest in sports you can't go hard every time

  
  Ummm..yeah..you can. You're wrong if you don't think most of these drivers go out every week and try to win the race.
• Iliketurtles

  

  slide22;571482 wrote:Yep. JMO but KC Raceway in Chillicothe is the best 410 winged sprint car racing in the country. Attica and Fremont up north have some of the best local competition in the country and Indiana is home of the wingless sprint cars.
  
  One of the reasons of the dwindling popularity of NASCAR is Dale Jr. is not competitive. I know he's not very talented, but NASCAR needs to find a way to get him winning races or atleast somewhat competitive.

  
  I agree with both these points. I used to love going to Attica and Fremont to watch some races now I hardly ever do it anymore also Sandusky is a great place as well.
  
  As for Jr I think most people knew it but there were a lot of NASCAR fans just because of Earhardt and they continued to follow NASCAR after his death because of Jr but since he sucks a lot of them has lost interest.