End of the Line for Michael Vick?

• enigmaax

  rmolin73;409710 wrote:I can say the same thing about deer hunters. Oh wait thats a sport. Also Human does not = dog no matter how much some people think they do.

  
  You could say the same thing about deer hunting, but you'd have nothing to back you up. Maybe it is just that you are young...or haven't had any exposure to simple psychology, but there's all kinds of stuff out there on this topic. I think PETA is stupid and I don't have pets. I find deer hunters annoying as well. None of this has anything to do with what Michael Vick's behavior demonstrated.
  
  It isn't even that he just killed dogs. It is the torture, the use of his bare hands, etc. If you can't understand the aggression those things require, well, like I said, I hope it is just that you are young and not that you are that stupid.
  
  
  "History is replete with notorious examples: Patrick Sherrill, who killed 14 coworkers at a post office and then shot himself, had a history of stealing local pets and allowing his own dog to attack and mutilate them. Earl Kenneth Shriner, who raped, stabbed, and mutilated a 7-year-old boy, had been widely known in his neighborhood as the man who put firecrackers in dogs' rectums and strung up cats. Brenda Spencer, who opened fire at a San Diego school, killing two children and injuring nine others, had repeatedly abused cats and dogs, often by setting their tails on fire. Albert DeSalvo, the "Boston Strangler" who killed 13 women, trapped dogs and cats in orange crates and shot arrows through the boxes in his youth. Carroll Edward Cole, executed for five of 35 murders of which he was accused, said his first act of violence as a child was to strangle a puppy. In 1987, three Missouri high school students were charged with the beating death of a classmate. They had histories of repeated acts of animal mutilation starting several years earlier. One confessed he had killed so many cats he'd lost count."
• rmolin73

  

  Thanks for the lesson. Now Mike Vick is Hitler? I'm also not condoning what he did. Look I understand the angst and violent nature of a person that fights dogs or hunts any animal for sport. My thing is Vick didn't get caught involved in dog fighting again, he has never been even suspected of doing anything else, and all the people you mentioned enigmaax have one other thing in common. Lets see if you can figure that out.
• Hb31187

  

  Lol so he used his bare hands to kill an anima?l, is it so much worse than sneaking up on an animal, shooting it with a high powered rifle, following the blood trail and then slitting its throat if its not dead?. Which is not only done about 10,000 times here in ohio, its actually something thats legal. People cant pick and choose what animals are ok and not okay to kill. Animals should be equal, but people put dogs up on a pedestal for some reason. The very same people who bitched about him kiling dogs and killing them inhumanely probably in the next week ate ground beef from a cow that was killed just the same....But nobody cares about cows lol.
  
  And just because its a tendancy that when you kill animals, you kill people doesnt mean he WILL. And all those people you listed enigma, I bet for every 1 you listed who killed animals, theres 4 or 5 serial killers who did not.
• rmolin73

  

  Pain and Suffering
  Many animals suffer prolonged, painful deaths when they are injured but not killed by hunters. A member of the Maine Bowhunters Alliance estimates that 50 percent of animals who are shot with crossbows are wounded but not killed.(7) A study of 80 radio-collared white-tailed deer found that of the 22 deer who had been shot with “traditional archery equipment,” 11 were wounded but not recovered by hunters.(8) Twenty percent of foxes who have been wounded by hunters are shot again; 10 percent manage to escape, but “starvation is a likely fate” for them, according to one veterinarian.(9) A South Dakota Department of Game, Fish, and Parks biologist estimates that more than 3 million wounded ducks go “unretrieved” every year.(10) A British study of deer hunting found that 11 percent of deer who’d been killed by hunters died only after being shot two or more times and that some wounded deer suffered for more than 15 minutes before dying.(11)
  
  So this is ok?
• enigmaax

  Hb - Actually, people can and do pick which animals are okay to kill. Again, there's never been a direct link between farmers who kill cows for food and serial killing. Same really for hunting - I'm not going to defend it, but there is a big difference between hunting for food (or raising animals for food) and torturing animals ... for fun, basically. I'm sorry you either understand it or are just trying the standard ridiculous argument. Instead of "betting" a random number, look it up and get back to me. Nothing is ever 100%, but as far as predicting behavior, the "accepted" definition of animal cruelty by our society is as much of a lock as it gets. (No, that doesn't mean that someone who kills animals is going to be a serial killer, but it does generally mean there are going to be other issues.)
  
  rmolin - Like I said, I'm not going to defend hunting. But show me some correlation between hunters and serial killing and your information may mean something.
• rmolin73

  

  Show me some correlation between dog fighting and serial killing and maybe your information will as well.
• Hb31187

  

  Yes, If animals are borederline extinct, or are neccesary for our survival i can understand people picking not to kill them but instead protect them. But what makes dogs so important other than theyve been mans "best friend"? And this "hunting for food" thign is a crock of shit, how many people do you know that hunt JUST for food? The Majority of them do it for sport, just because they find it fun. Sot hey find killing animals fun, what do you wanna bet that someone who hunts has also murdered a human? UH OH it must mean all of them do right?
• enigmaax

  rmolin73;409761 wrote:Show me some correlation between dog fighting and serial killing and maybe your information will as well.

  
  Seriously, it isn't about the DOG FIGHTING. It is about the KILLING - some for losing, some for his deeming them not worthy of fighting. Is that really difficult to understand? Do you even know what you're arguing any more?
  
  The witness told investigators Vick, Peace and Phillips “seemed to get an ‘adrenaline high’ when killing the dogs.”
• rmolin73

  

  enigmaax;409778 wrote:Seriously, it isn't about the DOG FIGHTING. It is about the KILLING - some for losing, some for his deeming them not worthy of fighting. Is that really difficult to understand? Do you even know what you're arguing any more?
  
  The witness told investigators Vick, Peace and Phillips “seemed to get an ‘adrenaline high’ when killing the dogs.”

  
  The same adrenaline high hunters get. Trust me I've seen it. Like I said show me the correlation between dog fighting which all of his actions were dealing with and serial killing if you can't then I don't believe you're aware of what you're arguing at all. Also how many dogs has Vick fought since he has been released?
• enigmaax

  Hb31187;409774 wrote:Yes, If animals are borederline extinct, or are neccesary for our survival i can understand people picking not to kill them but instead protect them. But what makes dogs so important other than theyve been mans "best friend"? And this "hunting for food" thign is a crock of shit, how many people do you know that hunt JUST for food? The Majority of them do it for sport, just because they find it fun. Sot hey find killing animals fun, what do you wanna bet that someone who hunts has also murdered a human? UH OH it must mean all of them do right?

  
  Maybe you missed the part where I said I find hunting stupid also. So, I'm not really sure why you keep going back to that argument.
  
  The point is, there is no evidence to suggest that simple hunting, even if it is just for sport, is an indicator of larger psychological issues or a predictor of future violent behavior. If you have this evidence, please share. Otherwise, all you are really doing is talking in general terms to try and dismiss overwhelming fact. It doesn't have to mean every animal killer kills a person or everyone that kills a person killed animals. It is a simple probability and a proven correlation.
  
  Aside from that, what the hell does hunting have to do with this anyway. Even if we both agree hunting is wrong and on par with what Michael Vick did, it doesn't make him any better of a person, which is what you two seem to be defending. So hunters are dangerous, too. Okay, how does help you defend Michael Vick?
• enigmaax

  rmolin73;409788 wrote:The same adrenaline high hunters get. Trust me I've seen it. Like I said show me the correlation between dog fighting which all of his actions were dealing with and serial killing if you can't then I don't believe you're aware of what you're arguing at all. Also how many dogs has Vick fought since he has been released?

  
  No, the actions were drowning dogs, picking up dogs and slamming them to the ground until they were dead, hanging them, etc. I'm sorry you don't understand.
  
  As for how many he's fought, don't know don't care. How many dogfights did he run or how many did he kill BEFORE he got caught? The fact that I don't know whether or not he is/was involved doesn't mean a single thing to your argument.
  
  What exactly are you defending? You saying he's a good guy getting a bad rap?
• rmolin73

  

  Once again show me the data that shows that dog fighting=serial killer. Also I am not defending Vick and his previous dog fighting. But in this case Vick didn't fight or kill dogs or do anything crminal until it is proven that he has then most of his haters need to STFU.
• enigmaax

  rmolin73;409801 wrote:Once again show me the data that shows that dog fighting=serial killer. Also I am not defending Vick and his previous dog fighting. But in this case Vick didn't fight or kill dogs or do anything crminal until it is proven that he has then most of his haters need to STFU.

  
  Um, why would I care if dog fighting = serial killer? I never made that comparison to begin with.
  
  I understand some people just want to hate on people. But do you really expect a guy like this to be given the benefit of doubt? In this case, someone was shot and he potentially violated both his probation and his agreement with his employer. His past actions are still relevant because HE IS STILL ON PROBATION FOR THOSE ACTIONS - he doesn't have to rob a bank or kill someone (or even dogs) to lose the privilege he's been given of being out of prison. If he did anything wrong, he's going to go back to paying for the dogfighting - that issue isn't resolved until he's off probation. Which is exactly why people are going to bring it up when he is AGAIN the center of troubled attention.
• rmolin73

  

  That I can agree with.
• Heretic

  

  And there is the minor little detail that people tend to gloss over when bringing up the "he killed dogs, not people!!!" argument...that regardless of the "court of public opinion" and its opinions on the matter, the actual killing of dogs wasn't the big deal. The running/financing of an interstate illegal gambling circle was that big deal, as that brought him into conflict with federal racketeering laws. As far as LEGALITY goes, that far exceeds dog-killing as far as his punishment went.
• ytownfootball

  

  rmolin73;409747 wrote:Thanks for the lesson. Now Mike Vick is Hitler? I'm also not condoning what he did. Look I understand the angst and violent nature of a person that fights dogs or hunts any animal for sport. My thing is Vick didn't get caught involved in dog fighting again, he has never been even suspected of doing anything else, and all the people you mentioned enigmaax have one other thing in common. Lets see if you can figure that out.

  
  Seriously man, read it again, trying to defend Hitler does not equal Mike Vick is Hitler. Jeebus
• rmolin73

  

  My bad ytownfootball I got it later. Also Heretic if the thread starter had went down that path instead of the dog fighting one the thread would have been over.
• Ender Wiggin

  

  Im STILL waiting for Strapping Young Lad to point out how ANYTHING I said relates to Al Sharpton? lol
  
  What a dumb piece of shit, cant back up what he says.
  
  I guess all these animal hunters are showing these tendencies that you dumbasses are saying right?
  
  Seriously, theres are some DUMB motherfuckers here nowadays.
  
  I almost miss JJHUDDLE.
• ts1227

  

  Ender Wiggin;411610 wrote:I almost miss JJHUDDLE.

  
  It's just more dumb motherfuckers, they just have $12 less.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  So, because a violent, conceited, thug served his time (but he actually didn't b/c he's still on probation as someone already pointed out) I should think he's a good guy and like the dude???
  
  No. I still have the same opinion of Vick when I saw him say"Everywhere I go people gon love Mike Vick". DOUCHEBAG. Can you say that????
  Then he turned out to be a violent douchebag. So why should I like the guy or even cut him some slack??? Becasue he served a portion of his penalty but probably fucked up not long after he got free and made some cash, got back in the limelight a little bit. Now he's already showing he's still a fuckup. But yeah hhe's cool.
• Hb31187

  

  Showing he's still a fuck up by having a bday party and leaving before someone got shot.
  
  So basically doing not a thing wrong, which is why hes not being punnished
• ytownfootball

  

  Hb31187;412014 wrote:Showing he's still a fuck up by having a bday party and leaving before someone got shot.
  
  So basically doing not a thing wrong, which is why hes not being punnished

  
  How many birthday parties have you attended where someone got shot? I can personally say I haven't attended ONE.
  
  There's your difference.
• Hb31187

  

  ytownfootball;412033 wrote:How many birthday parties have you attended where someone got shot? I can personally say I haven't attended ONE.
  
  There's your difference.

  So let me get this straight, because a shooting happened its automatically Vicks fault? Unless hes proven to of pulled the trigger or ordered it...he did nothing wrong. If you had a party and someone got robbed at your party...is it your fault?
  
  Stupid logic
• ytownfootball

  

  Hb31187;412034 wrote:So let me get this straight, because a shooting happened its automatically Vicks fault? Unless hes proven to of pulled the trigger or ordered it...he did nothing wrong. If you had a party and someone got robbed at your party...is it your fault?
  
  Stupid logic

  
  It's the company you keep Hb, birds of a feather flock together etc. etc. You're a reasonable guy, you get the point I'm sure. Hell being on probation he should be wary of having a party in the community room at the local church.
• Hb31187

  

  Again, it wasnt proven who shot the guy, so for all you know it was some random guy, not someone in his posse. It wasnt like it was ONLY people he invited that were allowed to come to the party. It was at a club, anyone who paid the cover was invited to come, you saw the flyer that was posted earlier on this thread.