Police Officer Shootings

• SnotBubbles

  

  Two in the last two days.
  
  What can be done about it? How is it resolved?
  
  My response to the Alton Sterling shooting, as inexcusable as it seemed, was that it's a citizen's responsibility not to resist arrest. Even if wrongfully detained, obey the police and you don't get shot. It will work out in the end. I think they were too quick on the trigger, but damn, don't put yourself in the situation. If someone says "he has a gun," don't try and squirm away from the officers.
  
  As for Philando Castile, the man killed in Minnesota....there is no excuses, is there? He did everything a law abiding citizen is taught to do. He said he had a concealed carry permit and was trying to get the officer his license and permit.
  
  It's getting outrageous. I understand both sides of the argument. Many police officers have been killed by not being suspicious or swift enough, but an equal (if not more) number of civilians have been murdered because of law enforcement being too suspicious and quick acting. I don't believe there are too many instances where a police office killed a suspect just to kill, I have more faith in law enforcement than that.
  
  This is a mess. The world we live in is quickly going down the shitter.
  
  Discuss.
• FatHobbit

  

  SnotBubbles;1802654 wrote:Two in the last two days.
  My response to the Alton Sterling shooting, as inexcusable as it seemed, was that it's a citizen's responsibility not to resist arrest. Even if wrongfully detained, obey the police and you don't get shot. It will work out in the end. I think they were too quick on the trigger, but damn, don't put yourself in the situation. If someone says "he has a gun," don't try and squirm away from the officers.

  I did not understand from the video why they shot him. I don't think it's clear and I'm not rushing to judgement.
  

  SnotBubbles;1802654 wrote: As for Philando Castile, the man killed in Minnesota....there is no excuses, is there? He did everything a law abiding citizen is taught to do. He said he had a concealed carry permit and was trying to get the officer his license and permit.

  I do not have a ccw but my understanding is that the officer usually disarms you when you are pulled over. Is that not correct? The video only shows what happens after the shooting and my god that lady seems calm for having her boyfriend dying right beside her.
  
  I am not in law enforcement, but I have many family and friends who are. I have all the respect in the world for what they do, but I'm glad I'm not one of them.
• Automatik

  

  Watched both vids and read about them in depth this morning. Fuck.....wish I hadn't.
• jmog

  I am not sure about the first one, I mean police were called to the scene because he was brandishing a weapon, he was a felon, and resisted arrest even when the gun fell out next to him...
  
  The second one, if the report is correct, is inexcusable. Now, for a CCW, you are trained that on ANY stop you keep your hands on the wheel and the first words out of your mouth to an officer is that you have a CCW and you are currently carrying. You do NOT reach for even your wallet until the officer instructs you.
  
  With that being said, even with a moment's lapse in judgment if the man was reaching for his wallet and then remembered to tell the officer he had a CCW and was carrying the officer should have quickly been instructing to have hands on wheel or you will be shot.
  
  The officer told him to get his ID and shot him in the process of getting his ID even though new information (CCW and gun) had arrived he was still doing what the officer told him to do.
  
  Unless something else comes out about the second story, the police department will go down bad on this one. This is NOT like a lot of the other police shooting of black men that were resisting and had illegal fire arms.
  
  This was a law abiding CCW holder doing what the officer told him to do, even if he forgot about the "both hands on wheel while declaring your fire arm to the officer" part of his class.
• iclfan2

  

  SnotBubbles;1802654 wrote:As for Philando Castile, the man killed in Minnesota....there is no excuses, is there? He did everything a law abiding citizen is taught to do. He said he had a concealed carry permit and was trying to get the officer his license and permit.

  Where did you see a video that shows anything that went on prior to him being shot? As far as I know the video only shows him after being shot, and only shows his super calm girlfriend saying that's what happened? I'm not backing the cops at all, but the so called "facts" in both of these cases are nowhere close to facts. If the cops in either case shot these guys without immediate danger then they should be put in jail. The problem is, if a cop tells you to not move, and you keep moving or moving towards your pocket, the line is fine on whether force was acceptable or not. I don't know which side I am on in either case.
  
  In Lousisiana, you have cops who knew the guy had a gun since that is why they went there, so they were on high alert already. On the other side, he was down on the ground and there were two of them, and the shop owner said the gun was in the guys pocket after he was killed. But was he reaching for it?
  
  In Minnesota, if you have a CCW, you probably shouldn't reach for your pockets and let the cop disarm you or keep your hands on the dashboard. This one will be tougher to figure out because it will be a cop said/ she said unless the cop admits that he shot without provocation, which I doubt happens. IF the cop asked to see license and registration and then got jumpy after the guy reached for his pocket, he is completely in the wrong. It appears that this victim was an upstanding citizen and this is a disaster for all parties involved.
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  Is there data supporting there are more police shootings or is it more are now caught on tape?
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  According to the Guaradian, more white people have been killed. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
  
  You can't blame white privilege for white deaths though.
• sleeper

  

  #1: They are both tragedies.
  #2: We don't have all the evidence to conclude anything at this point despite the witch hunting and public opinion already against the officers.
  #3: The second shooting looks a lot worse than the first one. At least the first one, there is verbal, non-lethal warning given before guns are even drawn. After guns are drawn, they still give verbal warnings and they are not followed.
  #4: More white people are killed by cops every year than black people. Why do we never hear about them? Media manipulation.
• iclfan2

  

  Raw Dawgin' it;1802664 wrote:Is there data supporting there are more police shootings or is it more are now caught on tape?

  There is data showing more white people are shot by police, so we can stop with the racism discussions about it. In 2015 there were 93 unarmed people killed by police, but only 38 were black.
  
  Another article I read stated that there were 990 shot dead by police in 2015, and 505 so far in 2016, which seems about the same (Of all races).
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  iclfan2;1802668 wrote:There is data showing more white people are shot by police, so we can stop with the racism discussions about it. In 2015 there were 93 unarmed people killed by police, but only 38 were black.
  
  Another article I read stated that there were 990 shot dead by police in 2015, and 505 so far in 2016, which seems about the same (Of all races).

  I posted a link to that.
• friendfromlowry

  iclfan2;1802663 wrote:Where did you see a video that shows anything that went on prior to him being shot? As far as I know the video only shows him after being shot, and only shows his super calm girlfriend saying that's what happened?

  This is my understanding as well. After he was shot, his girlfriend opens up a Facebook live feed.
• thavoice

  I typically fall in line and support the authority figures in situations like this but it is inexcusable.
  
  Handling a weapon isn't the easiest of things. It isn't like in the movies. A police officer is trained to handle his sidearm and make quick decisions. Why cant they at least see something resembling a weapon before pulling the trigger? I can see if the perp makes a jerky move and has something visible in his hands but come on......cops should be better than this. Said bad guy isn't going to be good enough to pull a weapon out like that and kill ya before the trained cop can do it.....
• SportsAndLady

  

  I'm not a cop hater (quite the opposite, I usually always side with the cops on these types of situations), but I can't see how you can side with the cop in the Minnesota incident.
  
  I'll obviously wait to hear more information about it, but it doesn't look good.
  
  The one in Louisiana. Nothing to see there. Don't resist arrest as a felon, and you won't get shot dead.
• salto

  

  Another reason why CCW doesn't work = stupid cops.
• fish82

  

  The Louisiana incident, while uncomfortable to watch, is probably a legit shoot.
  
  The Minnesota one....damn. That cop is fucked.
• friendfromlowry

  Someone on my newsfeed shared a video of the CNN interview of Sterling's family and his teenage son was having a breakdown the entire time. That's what I hate about this. Doesn't matter who was in the right or wrong - kids just lost their dad.
• SnotBubbles

  

  Raw Dawgin' it;1802666 wrote:According to the Guaradian, more white people have been killed. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
  
  You can't blame white privilege for white deaths though.

  1) I didn't want to turn this into a race thing. But since it will inevitably become one....
  
  2) Those stats are a little flawed. I started going through them, a lot of them are "hit by patrol car," "murdered by off duty officer," etc.
• Wolves of Babylon

  Both disturbing videos. The Minnesota one was tough to watch. It is odd how calm his gf was. If it went down like assumed, that cop is going to jail.
  
  Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
• thavoice

  Wolves of Babylon;1802684 wrote:Both disturbing videos. The Minnesota one was tough to watch. It is odd how calm his gf was. If it went down like assumed, that cop is going to jail.
  
  Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

  I noticed that too. It is sad to believe but...........maybe she was more thinking how great of a video this is going to make on facebook over the likely death of her boyfriend. I firmly believe many people do things for one reason....to take a picture/video and put it on social media. If they cannot brag/show off to every "friend" they have then it isn't worth even doing......
• SportsAndLady

  

  She's probably very calm because he was "only" shot in the arm (I think?). She probably didn't think he was going to die.
• Wolves of Babylon

  Also you could hear in the Cops voice he is scared shitless (which I can't blame him) and probably realizes he messed up.
  
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• thavoice

  SportsAndLady;1802688 wrote:She's probably very calm because he was "only" shot in the arm (I think?). She probably didn't think he was going to die.

  Eh, maybe if the guy was conscience, but he was out cold from what I saw with a shit ton of blood.
• jmog

  Wolves of Babylon;1802689 wrote:Also you could hear in the Cops voice he is scared shitless (which I can't blame him) and probably realizes he messed up.
  
  Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

  I currently believe (until all the evidence is out) that the Minnesota shooting was really bad on the cop's side of it. However, with that said, almost any human is going to be scared crapless after having to shoot their weapon at another human, justified or not.
  
  If a person enters my house and I am forced to kill them I am still going to be "scared crapless" just from the fear/adrenaline rush that happened from having to take a human life.
  
  Just because he sounded scared doesn't mean he is guilty...but I do believe he is guilty.
• vball10set

  interesting...
  
  http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-story-behind-the-filming-of-the-fatal-baton-rouge-police-shooting-it-was-no-coincidence/ar-BBu2nIi?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U141DHP
• Wolves of Babylon

  jmog;1802692 wrote:I currently believe (until all the evidence is out) that the Minnesota shooting was really bad on the cop's side of it. However, with that said, almost any human is going to be scared crapless after having to shoot their weapon at another human, justified or not.
  
  If a person enters my house and I am forced to kill them I am still going to be "scared crapless" just from the fear/adrenaline rush that happened from having to take a human life.
  
  Just because he sounded scared doesn't mean he is guilty...but I do believe he is guilty.

  I agree and that's why I said I didn't blame him but I do think there is a bit of a " What did I just do" in his voice as well. Just an opinion.
  
  The gf reaction is more disturbing I think. If my wife/gf were shot like that. I'd probably be shot too.
  
  Of course God forbid I'm ever in either scenario. Shooting someone or seeing a loved one shot so I honestly don't know how I would act.
  
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