Police Officer Shootings

• Laley23

  

  raiderbuck;1802866 wrote:I think I get the context of what you're saying. But you can't possibly think that a person pulling away from warrants you pulling your gun on them. I would think that you would pull your gun if that person were coming at you, no?

  thavoice;1802868 wrote:I believe he just said had a permit but didn't have one on him. Get what you are saying about someone pulling away......but does pulling away warrant taking someone's life when you can easily follow and knew who it was?
  
  Not that I agree with it, but some police jurisdictions even follow high speed pursuits if it gets past certain speeds so they are Ok with letting that person go but in other instances ya can shoot the guy?
  
  I am behind law enforcement and authority 99.9% of the time but I am trying to understand if there are other options.

  Im just not sure we realize what these guys walk into nightly. My best friend is a cop, so I am ADMITTEDLY biased on the subject. But he is far from a racist cop. Tells me stories about the crack houses they enter being told they are empty only to be drawn on. Or the homeless guy they try to have move who pulls his knife when they go to cuff him, etc. Its easy to sit here and say that he was just squirming a bit, and no need to shoot. But, thats because in this case HE WAS just squirming (according to witness'). But, for these cops, they have probably had a TON of instances that have gone unreported in the news of criminals "squirming" and next thing you know they are having to disarm them.
  
  If they dont disarm them? They themselves may be shot.
  
  Back to my friend. He was on a routine traffic stop, where the person being pulled over had an arrest warrant so they called for backup before approaching the car (my friend was the backup). They get to the vehicle and he takes off driving. My buddy pursues in the car (backup stays in car in case of this) and they follow him to his "house". He isnt fatally shot while trying to enter, presumably because his partner is a terrible shot lol. He was shot 3 times in the back, while running from the cops trying to enter some rundown building. Inside, 17 handguns and 3 automatic rifles. So...yeah, sometimes you gotta shoot the guy who is unarmed.
  
  Im not saying these instances are alike, what I am saying (and more to NO, Minny looks like straight murder) is that these cops HAVE seen the worst in people, particularly in the bigger cities. So, they go into a typical arrest on high alert, and when you dont fucking listen to them mistakes are gonna happen that may end your life. All the guy had to do in NO is listen to the police. Had he just turned around and raised his hands, he doesnt even get taken to the ground. Then he continues to move around...just dumb. I dont care if my partner and I have his hands pinned, if the guy is being arrested he is dangerous to me. As long as he is cooperating, nothing bad will happen. If he starts to squirm, even without success, a cop is gonna pull his gun. They arent going to risk losing grip and him reaching a weapon of some sort. If a gun is pulled and he still is squirming around, he is probably going to be shot.
  
  If the cops are in the wrong, go to the station and talk to a lawyer and have it sorted out. Dont talk back. Dont run. Dont move around. Just listen and do what they say.
• vball10set

  vball10set;1802813 wrote:When a cop says 'don't reach for it' and 'put your hands on the dashboard', do it...and when a cop says 'stop resisting', do it. If you feel you've been wronged, then get a hold of one of the millions of attorneys at your disposal and press charges...and fwiw, I hope they give the death penalty to these four idiots who ambushed the cops in Dallas.

  Laley23;1802874 wrote: So, they go into a typical arrest on high alert, and when you dont fucking listen to them mistakes are gonna happen that may end your life. All the guy had to do in NO is listen to the police. Had he just turned around and raised his hands, he doesnt even get taken to the ground. Then he continues to move around...just dumb. I dont care if my partner and I have his hands pinned, if the guy is being arrested he is dangerous to me. As long as he is cooperating, nothing bad will happen. If he starts to squirm, even without success, a cop is gonna pull his gun. They arent going to risk losing grip and him reaching a weapon of some sort. If a gun is pulled and he still is squirming around, he is probably going to be shot.
  
  If the cops are in the wrong, go to the station and talk to a lawyer and have it sorted out. Dont talk back. Dont run. Dont move around. Just listen and do what they say.

  Seems pretty simple, doesn't it?
• thavoice

  Laley23;1802874 wrote:Im just not sure we realize what these guys walk into nightly. My best friend is a cop, so I am ADMITTEDLY biased on the subject. But he is far from a racist cop. Tells me stories about the crack houses they enter being told they are empty only to be drawn on. Or the homeless guy they try to have move who pulls his knife when they go to cuff him, etc. Its easy to sit here and say that he was just squirming a bit, and no need to shoot. But, thats because in this case HE WAS just squirming (according to witness'). But, for these cops, they have probably had a TON of instances that have gone unreported in the news of criminals "squirming" and next thing you know they are having to disarm them.
  
  If they dont disarm them? They themselves may be shot.
  
  Back to my friend. He was on a routine traffic stop, where the person being pulled over had an arrest warrant so they called for backup before approaching the car (my friend was the backup). They get to the vehicle and he takes off driving. My buddy pursues in the car (backup stays in car in case of this) and they follow him to his "house". He isnt fatally shot while trying to enter, presumably because his partner is a terrible shot lol. He was shot 3 times in the back, while running from the cops trying to enter some rundown building. Inside, 17 handguns and 3 automatic rifles. So...yeah, sometimes you gotta shoot the guy who is unarmed.
  
  Im not saying these instances are alike, what I am saying (and more to NO, Minny looks like straight murder) is that these cops HAVE seen the worst in people, particularly in the bigger cities. So, they go into a typical arrest on high alert, and when you dont fucking listen to them mistakes are gonna happen that may end your life. All the guy had to do in NO is listen to the police. Had he just turned around and raised his hands, he doesnt even get taken to the ground. Then he continues to move around...just dumb. I dont care if my partner and I have his hands pinned, if the guy is being arrested he is dangerous to me. As long as he is cooperating, nothing bad will happen. If he starts to squirm, even without success, a cop is gonna pull his gun. They arent going to risk losing grip and him reaching a weapon of some sort. If a gun is pulled and he still is squirming around, he is probably going to be shot.
  
  If the cops are in the wrong, go to the station and talk to a lawyer and have it sorted out. Dont talk back. Dont run. Dont move around. Just listen and do what they say.

  I'm not 100% against what you are saying.
  
  Just has to be some line where the cop has to realistically think he is danger and a guy pulling away isn't one of them and with some of the other shootings. I think we almost all can agree the Minny shooting was just a pure shitshow by the officer.
  
  Scuffling on the ground......very easy to justify a shooting as the bad guy can be trying to take the cops weapon, or may have one himself.
  
  
  I think if more people just had more respect for authority (all kinds..from parents, cops, teachers, coaches ect) we would all be in a better place. Too many are learning at a younger age and often from their parents that confrontation against authority is ok.
  
  
  If you were a black man right now and believe this 'war', what would you be thinking the next time you get picked up for something as simple as speeding and you need to get your insurance and title from the glovebox? Man..I would be moving awfully slow...
• Laley23

  

  thavoice;1802877 wrote:I'm not 100% against what you are saying.
  
  Just has to be some line where the cop has to realistically think he is danger and a guy pulling away isn't one of them and with some of the other shootings. I think we almost all can agree the Minny shooting was just a pure shitshow by the officer.
  
  Scuffling on the ground......very easy to justify a shooting as the bad guy can be trying to take the cops weapon, or may have one himself.
  
  
  I think if more people just had more respect for authority (all kinds..from parents, cops, teachers, coaches ect) we would all be in a better place. Too many are learning at a younger age and often from their parents that confrontation against authority is ok.
  
  
  If you were a black man right now and believe this 'war', what would you be thinking the next time you get picked up for something as simple as speeding and you need to get your insurance and title from the glovebox? Man..I would be moving awfully slow...

  I agree some of them have been very bad. I was really just talking about the NO in particular.
  
  Another thing we have to remember is, a good majority of these guys being arrested have records and run-ins with police before. The cops in NO probably knew Alton by name. If he was acting weirder than normal, its safe to assume he might be on drugs, and maybe you are on high alert because of that. If he is always aggressive...well than no chances being taken there, etc. Id be willing to be most of these shootings arent in a vacuum the 1st time they have been in trouble and possibly posed a threat to policemen. Maybe this time that threat seems a little more real or dangerous to them??
  
  We simply dont know. But I do know, I have seen VERY few of these videos where the person shot wouldnt still be alive if they were originally obeying the law, and later just listened to the cops. The few that we have seen that would contradict that wouldnt be enough for the BLM movement we have seen form over the years.
• thavoice

  Laley23;1802878 wrote:I agree some of them have been very bad. I was really just talking about the NO in particular.
  
  Another thing we have to remember is, a good majority of these guys being arrested have records and run-ins with police before. The cops in NO probably knew Alton by name. If he was acting weirder than normal, its safe to assume he might be on drugs, and maybe you are on high alert because of that. If he is always aggressive...well than no chances being taken there, etc. Id be willing to be most of these shootings arent in a vacuum the 1st time they have been in trouble and possibly posed a threat to policemen. Maybe this time that threat seems a little more real or dangerous to them??
  
  We simply dont know. But I do know, I have seen VERY few of these videos where the person shot wouldnt still be alive if they were originally obeying the law, and later just listened to the cops. The few that we have seen that would contradict that wouldnt be enough for the BLM movement we have seen form over the years.

  I haven't seen the NO one at all so I cannot comment but from those who have that I respect it seems as a legit shoot, but the Minny....geesh!
  
  
  People just have to realize you just do what the cops tell ya and comply. If its wrong it will get picked up on the back end but I think too many truly believe, as they were brought up that way, that the system and the cops are against them.
  
  I only have one personal incident where I guess if I acted like many of these idiots it could have went wrong. 20 yrs or so ago we JUST got to a bar and there was some shit going on inside so we turned around and walked out......just as all the cops showed up. Friends and I were told to get on the ground, we did, and they went inside.....long story short....we were let go on our way but if we would have been jerks and yelled/resisted because...well we weren't doing anything it could have turned out bad!
• Laley23

  

  thavoice;1802879 wrote:I haven't seen the NO one at all so I cannot comment but from those who have that I respect it seems as a legit shoot, but the Minny....geesh!
  
  
  People just have to realize you just do what the cops tell ya and comply. If its wrong it will get picked up on the back end but I think too many truly believe, as they were brought up that way, that the system and the cops are against them.
  
  I only have one personal incident where I guess if I acted like many of these idiots it could have went wrong. 20 yrs or so ago we JUST got to a bar and there was some shit going on inside so we turned around and walked out......just as all the cops showed up. Friends and I were told to get on the ground, we did, and they went inside.....long story short....we were let go on our way but if we would have been jerks and yelled/resisted because...well we weren't doing anything it could have turned out bad!

  I had a cop pull a gun on me when I was walking up to my gf of the time home at about 2am. Apparently there had been a bunch of break-ins recently, and I fit the profile (6 ft, skinny, young white male). I put my hands up, went to my knees and lay flat as he searched me. Did everything he said. If I had gotten scared and run I may have been shot. If I had mouthed off or resisted, probably knocked out or shot.
  
  Instead, he took my ID, ran a check, and then gave me my phone back to call my GF. When she came to the door, he let me go and thanked me on being "cooperative as they were just trying to do their job and get the bad guy."
  
  Yeah, cool story I know lol
• thavoice

  Laley23;1802880 wrote:I had a cop pull a gun on me when I was walking up to my gf of the time home at about 2am. Apparently there had been a bunch of break-ins recently, and I fit the profile (6 ft, skinny, young white male). I put my hands up, went to my knees and lay flat as he searched me. Did everything he said. If I had gotten scared and run I may have been shot. If I had mouthed off or resisted, probably knocked out or shot.
  
  Instead, he took my ID, ran a check, and then gave me my phone back to call my GF. When she came to the door, he let me go and thanked me on being "cooperative as they were just trying to do their job and get the bad guy."
  
  Yeah, cool story I know lol

  yeah I bet you did.......ha. Too easy.
  
  It could be very scary, and if you put yourself in a situation where you were doing something wrong it is very easy to see how many get themselves jammed up for resisting. WHen you 100% innocent it likely is much easier to stay calm!
• QuakerOats

  I agree with what Laley is saying. These urban cops are in tough situations multiple times a day; any one confrontation can go bad in a hurry, especially when dealing with the uncivilized trash they have to deal with. If only the jackasses in the media, the race-baiters, and the liberal politicians would walk a few days in their shoes.
• Belly35

  

  Obama make the play for gun control from a trouble situation and the Black Liberal leadership follow like sheep.
  Black murder Blacks everyday, children killed and wounded in gang violent with known neighborhood felons with illegal weapons in niegborhood aided in government programs and not one black lives matter riot protesting for justice, no Black sniper taking aim on gang members and not one Black politican demanding control of Black felon epidemic...... Why is that?
  
  why is there no White riot, protest and sniper on roof top at the police shooting of white trailer park? why is that?
  
  Until this question is answered?
  
  Shut the fuck up about gun control.... Sorry
  
  when you can answer why the different between the actions and what is the cause / reasoning .... Guns are not the problem.
  
  
  the two situation is not about gun control you assholes .. That an agenda not a solution..
  You're avoiding the problem and diverting the real issues ...
  
  answer why blacks react and whites don't.....?
• gut

  thavoice;1802877 wrote: Just has to be some line where the cop has to realistically think he is danger and a guy pulling away isn't one of them and with some of the other shootings.

  The most shocking and incredible part of that story is he was that jumpy, unprovoked, WITH the guy's girlfriend and baby in the car. Where does that come from - even in movies gangsters aren't that gangster.
  
  I mean, I'm sure the first thought that every would-be cop killer has is to say "officer, I have a gun".
• FatHobbit

  

  gut;1802910 wrote:The most shocking and incredible part of that story is he was that jumpy, unprovoked, WITH the guy's girlfriend and baby in the car. Where does that come from - even in movies gangsters aren't that gangster.
  
  I mean, I'm sure the first thought that every would-be cop killer has is to say "officer, I have a gun".

  I'm hoping there is a dash cam video that shows us what happened to lead to the shooting.
• vball10set

  So a black sniper with a gun hiding cowardly on a rooftop, shooting randomly at white cops, is going to "bring closure to the families of the black men who were senselessly killed by white cops"?!? sounds like some real Jackson/Sharpton logic being applied there...pitiful
• queencitybuckeye

  Belly35;1802908 wrote:Obama make the play for gun control from a trouble situation and the Black Liberal leadership follow like sheep.

  Don't worry, calls for gun control from the left and the response that there's no room for change from the right are nothing but partisan cheerleading rallying their base voters. Neither party is interested in gun control, they want it, along with abortion, as a differentiating political issue.
  
  The truth is if progress was wanted on guns, they could take a lot of bad guys off the streets without infringing the rights of the good guys by prosecuting more that a couple tenths of a percent of those violating current laws, particularly the tens of thousands who commit a felony by lying on the 4473 form.
  
  It IS pretty despicable that they can't even let the bodies get cold before using such a tragedy for partisan purposes.
• iclfan2

  

  More "peaceful" protesting by black lives matter... They are never going to get anything changed acting like jackasses.
  
  http://www.theamericanmirror.com/agitators-hurl-rocks-phoenix-police-chant-shoot/
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
• BoatShoes

  My bro in law is an inner city cop. Crazy that we live in a country where any yahoo, thug or terrorist can easily get a gun and put every cop at a traffic stop on edge or for heaven's sake start sniping cops.
  
  Call me crazy but I have my doubt's cops would be killing people they detain if they didn't reasonably fear that these people would shoot them.
  
  I realise this is a minority opinion but damn...the good guys with guns...cops...even they can't stop bad guys with guns when they are getting sniped and they end up killing people who aren't necessarily bad guys with guns.
  
  Our heavily armed society is not a very polite one IMHO. Just sad all around and it is just going to get worse. Gonna stay far away from downtown CLE during the convention.
  
  Who knows...the last time firearms enthusiasts ever were interested in doing something about all these guns were when black panthers brandished them on the steps of the California state capitol. Maybe now that these scumbags have started gunning down cops something will change but I am not counting on it. A sad time for our country and two non-inspiring leaders in the running to place another uninspiring one and it doesn't feel like its gonna get better.
• queencitybuckeye

  The hay's way out of that barn unless you basically want to claim the Bill of Rights as a failure. Any solutions need be based on the facts that there are guns, hundreds of millions of them.
  
  Need to look at the bad guys, not the tools.
• Belly35

  

  queencitybuckeye;1802929 wrote:The hay's way out of that barn unless you basically want to claim the Bill of Rights as a failure. Any solutions need be based on the facts that there are guns, hundreds of millions of them.
  
  Need to look at the bad guys, not the tools.

  agreed
  
  the black felon epidemic, destruction of the family unit, moral and ethical values of individual, groups, population, the respect for law, law inforcement and the courts, reverse racism, black leadership corruption and politican cowardly deeds
• superman

  Liberal logic.
  
  Cops are evil racists.
  
  Only cops should have guns.
• queencitybuckeye

  BoatShoes;1802926 wrote:
  Call me crazy but I have my doubt's cops would be killing people they detain if they didn't reasonably fear that these people would shoot them.
  

  This is an available number. How many LEGALLY armed motorists have gunned down cops at a traffic stop?
• iclfan2

  

  More "protestors" in Minnesota throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at cops. Just start shooting them with rubber bullets, and arrest anyone that steps foot on a highway. This has gone far enough.
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
• sleeper

  

  iclfan2;1802970 wrote:More "protestors" in Minnesota throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at cops. Just start shooting them with rubber bullets, and arrest anyone that steps foot on a highway. This has gone far enough.
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  The hilarious part is the media pretending like the cops are the evil ones here. Yeah, the cops should just let people block the highways for hours and never do anything to stop them.
  
  This country is a trash can of uneducated people.
• gut

  I'd like to see the POTUS and others stop talking about "truth" and start actually speaking some, like you aren't getting shot more because cops are racist, it's because you commit more crimes.
  
  And, hey, why not take another swipe at guns? Because cops are afraid of being shot. So ban guns, and that will keep them out of the hands of criminals. Brilliant!
• sleeper

  

  gut;1802979 wrote:I'd like to see the POTUS and others stop talking about "truth" and start actually speaking some, like you aren't getting shot more because cops are racist, it's because you commit more crimes.
  
  And, hey, why not take another swipe at guns? Because cops are afraid of being shot. So ban guns, and that will keep them out of the hands of criminals. Brilliant!

  Thought it was interesting the POTUS said we need to wait for all the facts in the police shooting but not for the thugs that got shot and killed.
• gut

  sleeper;1802980 wrote:Thought it was interesting the POTUS said we need to wait for all the facts in the police shooting but not for the thugs that got shot and killed.

  It only took 5 cops getting murdered for him to finally stand-up, sort of, to the hatred and bigotry running through the BLM movement.
• iclfan2

  

  Haha Obama said he was unsure of the guys motive... You know the one who specifically stated he wanted to shoot white people.
  
  And some people complaining about them blowing the guy up. GTFO
  
  
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