Big passenger jet may have gone down

• Con_Alma

  ???
  
  I didn't say that at all.
  
  I responded to the length of time the plane supposedly continued to travel. It did so because everyone was dead...a la Payne Stewart flight.
• gut

  SportsAndLady;1590957 wrote:The plane flew for 4+ hours after disappearing how do you explain that?

  Who said there had to be a specific window of time it was shot down? Off course, unidentified and not responding...military intervention seems very plausible.
• SportsAndLady

  

  gut;1590969 wrote:Who said there had to be a specific window of time it was shot down? Off course, unidentified and not responding...military intervention seems very plausible.

  So it just flew around randomly for 7 hours and a group shot it down?
• SportsAndLady

  

  Con_Alma;1590968 wrote:???
  
  I didn't say that at all.
  
  I responded to the length of time the plane supposedly continued to travel. It did so because everyone was dead...a la Payne Stewart flight.

  I was confused by what you meant.
  
  I still don't understand what you mean.
• gut

  bases_loaded;1590956 wrote:How about the theory they flew to Pakistan? Police now raiding both pilots houses

  Possible, but I wouldn't expect any govt dare be involved in the hijacking of an airplane. And that would remove pretty much all commercial airports capable of accommodating a 777, not to mention the touchy prospect of an unidentified aircraft showing up on radar.
  
  Which then brings us to some remote patch of dirt, which would have to be at least 2 miles long and lit up to navigate/land at night. If true, that's a hell of a stunt, but I think extremely unlikely.
• Con_Alma

  SportsAndLady;1590972 wrote:I was confused by what you meant.
  
  I still don't understand what you mean.

  The plane has been reported to have climbed as high as 45,000 feet. That's above the safe capability of the plane. At that altitude the plane's oxygen masks would have dropped. The plane is equipped to deliver oxygen for all passengers for approximately 12 minutes.
  
  The plane continued for 4 to 7 hours because there's wasn't anyone alive to stop it.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Con_Alma;1590977 wrote:I was confused by what you meant.
  
  I still don't understand what you mean.
  
  The plane has been reported to have climbed as high as 45,000 feet. That's above the safe capability of the plane. At that altitude the plane's oxygen masks would have dropped. The plane is equipped to deliver oxygen for all passengers for approximately 12 minutes.
  
  The plane continued for 4 to 7 hours because there's wasn't anyone alive to stop it.

  Okay? That literally has nothing to do with what we were discussing.
• Con_Alma

  I was responding to the post that the plane continued for 7 hours.........it did so because everyone was dead.
• gut

  SportsAndLady;1590971 wrote:So it just flew around randomly for 7 hours and a group shot it down?

  Again, why do you insist on attaching a time table for it to be shot down? It has to show up in airspace where it raises alarm, and then the choice has to be made to scramble jets and eventually take it down....who's to say what the timetable is from locating the plane, and how long spent trying to identify it, before decidng to shoot it down?
• bases_loaded

  

  Missing Malaysia Airlines plane WAS hijacked, says official | Mail Online
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581488/It-WAS-hijacked-Malaysian-official-says-CONCLUSIVE-jet-carrying-239-hijacked-35-000-ft-individual-group-significant-flying-experience.html
• gut

  Con_Alma;1590980 wrote:I was responding to the post that the plane continued for 7 hours.........it did so because everyone was dead.

  But wouldn't someone have had to put new coordinates into the autopilot to fly that long unmanned?
  
  And I don't know what the official story is, but I read somewhere the altitude you are referring to was based off data transmitted from the engines, and that altitude data is unreliable.
• Con_Alma

  gut;1590985 wrote:But wouldn't someone have had to put new coordinates into the autopilot to fly that long unmanned?
  
  And I don't know what the official story is, but I read somewhere the altitude you are referring to was based off data transmitted from the engines, and that altitude data is unreliable.

  
  Sure. Someone put the coordinates into the auto-pilot. The crew in addition to the oxygen masks has portable tanks for slightly extended time-frame.
  
  The data is the data, unreliable or not. Even it being unreliable doesn't mean it should be entirely discounted. It's just another theory.
• SportsAndLady

  

  gut;1590982 wrote:Again, why do you insist on attaching a time table for it to be shot down? It has to show up in airspace where it raises alarm, and then the choice has to be made to scramble jets and eventually take it down....who's to say what the timetable is from locating the plane, and how long spent trying to identify it, before decidng to shoot it down?

  Because data was sent saying it was flying for 4+ hours. So it must have been shot down after flying that long. So why would someone shoot it down after flying for so long?
• gut

  SportsAndLady;1590990 wrote:Because data was sent saying it was flying for 4+ hours. So it must have been shot down after flying that long. So why would someone shoot it down after flying for so long?

  Again, you're making assumptions about the time table to make another assumption about intervention. The flight was picked up by military radar....I don't know when, but are you really going to make the assumption an unidentified plane, not responding to communications, is picked-up by the military...and they do nothing?
  
  It was supposedly flying between known waypoints...so I imagine there would have been a rather extensive and lengthy process to identify the aircraft before intervening. So I don't see how long it was in the air really has anything to do with whether or not it would have been shot down....not an immediate threat wouldn't necessitate immediate lethal intervention. It could have gotten all the way to Pakistani airspace before being determined a threat requiring action.
• Con_Alma

  gut;1590994 wrote:Again, you're making assumptions about the time table to make another assumption about intervention. The flight was picked up by military radar....I don't know when, but are you really going to make the assumption an unidentified plane, not responding to communications, is picked-up by the military...and they do nothing?

  
  During the Payne Stewart issue, military fighters flew next to the plane for an extended period...I believe until the end....making sure no one was still alive and that the plane wasn't hijacked. They were able to notice the windows being frosted.
• gut

  Con_Alma;1590987 wrote:Even it being unreliable doesn't mean it should be entirely discounted. It's just another theory.

  I'm not discounting it, just pointing out it's not an indisputable fact that it ascended to that altitude.
  
  If you're hijacking a plane, it might make sense to do that to the passengers to avoid intervention...but I'm not sure it would be necessary because I'm not sure how they would be able to know they were off course (though I have been on planes where you they show the flightpath on the LCD's, but I'm not sure if that's real time or a simulation).
• gut

  Con_Alma;1590996 wrote:During the Payne Stewart issue, military fighters flew next to the plane for an extended period...I believe until the end....making sure no one was still alive and that the plane wasn't hijacked. They were able to notice the windows being frosted.

  Sure the would. But we're not dealing with the USAF here, and I don't know if night would have made it more difficult to identify the plane (especially when you are talking Pakistani air force or something).
  
  I imagine a country wouldn't be forthcoming about shooting down a commercial airliner, especially if any screw-ups were involved. But in your Payne Stewart scenario where they just escort it until it splashes down...don't see a reason to hide that.
• Con_Alma

  gut;1590999 wrote:I'm not discounting it, just pointing out it's not an indisputable fact that it ascended to that altitude.
  
  If you're hijacking a plane, it might make sense to do that to the passengers to avoid intervention...but I'm not sure it would be necessary because I'm not sure how they would be able to know they were off course (though I have been on planes where you they show the flightpath on the LCD's, but I'm not sure if that's real time or a simulation).

  CNN is speculating on a possible announcement to the passengers to keep them calm following the drastic filght pah change.
  
  A pilot suicide mission is also being discussed.
  
  Everything is just theory and nothing seems to be certain ...still.
• Con_Alma

  gut;1591003 wrote:Sure the would. But we're not dealing with the USAF here, and I don't know if night would have made it more difficult to identify the plane (especially when you are talking Pakistani air force or something).
  
  I imagine a country wouldn't be forthcoming about shooting down a commercial airliner, especially if any screw-ups were involved. But in your Payne Stewart scenario where they just escort it until it splashes down...don't see a reason to hide that.

  
  Of course we're not dealing with the US Air Force. My comment was merely a reminder of similar scenario of a plane being unresponsive to your suggestion that military planes would have been involved.
• LJ

  

  In the Payne Stewart crash I'm pretty sure everyone was dead before the plane ascended to 48,000 feet. It was when the Oklahoma ANG was following the plane, which happened to be the 2nd intercept.
  
  BUT, if the plane lost pressure suddenly and the backup oxygen failed, it's a very possible scenario. The only reason the first fighter intercept was made on the Stewart flight was because the plane flew right into a practice flight area
• gut

  Con_Alma;1591004 wrote: Everything is just theory and nothing seems to be certain ...still.

  I suspect we again have a case where rumors are "breaking news", and other outlets pick that up creating the illusion of fact. Very little appears to be certain at this point, and with a variety of conflicting reports apparently coming out of Malaysia it looks like they are attempting to cover-up incompetence, at a minimum.
  
  If military radar DID, in fact, pick-up this plane then I find it very hard to believe jets were not scrambled. And if not, WHY not? I think the silence is telling.
• gut

  Con_Alma;1591006 wrote:Of course we're not dealing with the US Air Force. My comment was merely a reminder of similar scenario of a plane being unresponsive to your suggestion that military planes would have been involved.

  It's not the same scenario, though, because it's on its planned flight path and the transponder is identifying the plane. Flight 370 had all its comm off and was flying off its charted course. Military is not going to pick-up an unidentified, unresponsive plane and sit on its thumbs.
• Con_Alma

  LJ;1591007 wrote:In the Payne Stewart crash I'm pretty sure everyone was dead before the plane ascended to 48,000 feet. It was when the Oklahoma ANG was following the plane, which happened to be the 2nd intercept.
  
  BUT, if the plane lost pressure suddenly and the backup oxygen failed, it's a very possible scenario. The only reason the first fighter intercept was made on the Stewart flight was because the plane flew right into a practice flight area

  
  That sounds familiar. I remember all being dead for a decent amount of time....or at least I thought that's what was reported.
  
  If this 777 truly did ascend to 45,000 I think they would have oxygen issues even if there wasn't experiencing depressurization.
• Con_Alma

  gut;1591013 wrote:It's not the same scenario, though, because it's on its planned flight path and the transponder is identifying the plane. Flight 370 had all its comm off and was flying off its charted course. Military is not going to pick-up an unidentified, unresponsive plane and sit on its thumbs.

  
  No. It's not the same. I said is was similar...similar in that military planes were involved in the case of Payne Stewart eventually and suggested to possibly play a role in your scenario. Nothing more.
• Con_Alma

  gut;1591009 wrote:I suspect we again have a case where rumors are "breaking news", and other outlets pick that up creating the illusion of fact. Very little appears to be certain at this point, and with a variety of conflicting reports apparently coming out of Malaysia it looks like they are attempting to cover-up incompetence, at a minimum.
  
  If military radar DID, in fact, pick-up this plane then I find it very hard to believe jets were not scrambled. And if not, WHY not? I think the silence is telling.

  Rumors and theories. I agree in that there's very little certainty.
  
  The US intelligence agency, however, is "leaning heavily" towards the pilots being deliberate and responsible however. Lol "Leaning heavily" is about as certain as we have right now.