Will Zimmerman get a fair trial in the Travon Martin case?

• TedSheckler

  

  Trayvon Martin Is A ‘Martyr’
• gut

  fish82;1492264 wrote:Stand Your Ground applies to civil suits as well.

  A judge has never ruled on that. At this point it is not and has never been a Stand Your Ground case.
• gport_tennis

  gut;1492549 wrote:A judge has never ruled on that. At this point it is not and has never been a Stand Your Ground case.

  
  I think he is saying that they could use the stand your ground law in a new civil trial, if they wanted too
• gut

  gport_tennis;1492552 wrote:I think he is saying that they could use the stand your ground law in a new civil trial, if they wanted too

  They could try. Point being, Zimmerman currently has no immunity from a civil judgement. A judge could still rule Stand Your Ground didn't apply.
  
  And if I'm the family, I just want Zimmerman on the stand.
• fish82

  

  gut;1492581 wrote:They could try. Point being, Zimmerman currently has no immunity from a civil judgement. A judge could still rule Stand Your Ground didn't apply.
  
  And if I'm the family, I just want Zimmerman on the stand.

  I suppose a judge could rule after the fact that it doesn't apply, but as the law is written today, it most certainly does.
  
  http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/07/15/stand-your-ground-and-the-zimmerman-defense/194870
  

  [INDENT] Attorneys for Mr. Martin's family said they are considering filing a civil lawsuit against Mr. Zimmerman, though they haven't made a decision. "We're still trying to make sense of the verdict in the criminal case," said Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for the family. "We'll be talking about our options going forward in the coming days."
  Such a case would face high hurdles, legal observers say. Mr. Zimmerman can seek immunity from civil lawsuits under Florida's so-called Stand Your Ground law--something his attorney said he planned to do. "In effect, there will be no civil suits," said Tamara Lave, a University of Miami law professor. "If there is a civil suit filed, it will be dismissed, and future ones will be barred."
  [/INDENT]

• gut

  fish82;1492627 wrote:I suppose a judge could rule after the fact that it doesn't apply, but as the law is written today, it most certainly does.
  
  http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/07/15/stand-your-ground-and-the-zimmerman-defense/194870

  Read the article you linked:
  "Mr. Zimmerman can seek immunity from civil lawsuits under Florida's so-called Stand Your Ground law--something his attorney said he planned to do."
  
  In other words, Zimmerman has to go before a judge and show that SYG applies to his circumstance - immunity is not assumed, SYG is a special case. I posted it somewhere back in this thread, but the rep who DRAFTED stand your ground has said it didn't apply to this case.
  
  Zimmerman could very well seek and be granted immunity in a separate hearing, but again the fact remains he currently has NO IMMUNITY from a civil suit.
  
  And, incidentally, it doesn't have to be SYG for Zimmerman to be granted immunity. Justifiable self-defense also grants immunity, however in such a hearing the burden of proof would shift to Zimmerman.
• gut

  Reason I bring a civil suit: Because one way or another, Zimmerman will have to get on the stand and tell his side of the story. I don't know how anyone could argue the Martin family is not entitled to this. And that's also why Zimmerman's defense did not ask for a SYG hearing before the trial, because Zimmerman would have had to testify and that could have been used against him (I believe they could have asked for the hearing any time, perhaps even overturning a potential guilty verdict after-the-fact)
  
  
  [url]http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/14/19467814-whats-next-for-george-zimmerman?lite
  
  "[/URL]"If someone believes that it's appropriate to sue George Zimmerman, then we will seek and we will get immunity in a civil hearing," O'Mara said in a post-verdict press conference."
  
  "To seek immunity, Zimmerman would have to ask for a a hearing under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. He chose not to pursue one before the criminal trial, but O'Mara had suggested he might go that route in the event of an acquittal.Coffey said that if Zimmerman is granted a hearing, he would have to testify. If he didn't convince the judge to grant him immunity, a civil suit could proceed to trial, where he would likely have to testify again."
• fish82

  

  gut;1492645 wrote:Read the article you linked:
  "Mr. Zimmerman can seek immunity from civil lawsuits under Florida's so-called Stand Your Ground law--something his attorney said he planned to do."
  
  In other words, Zimmerman has to go before a judge and show that SYG applies to his circumstance - immunity is not assumed, SYG is a special case. I posted it somewhere back in this thread, but the rep who DRAFTED stand your ground has said it didn't apply to this case.
  
  Zimmerman could very well seek and be granted immunity in a separate hearing, but again the fact remains he currently has NO IMMUNITY from a civil suit.
  
  And, incidentally, it doesn't have to be SYG for Zimmerman to be granted immunity. Justifiable self-defense also grants immunity, however in such a hearing the burden of proof would shift to Zimmerman.

  I didn't mean to suggest that the Martins would be prevented from filing a suit. (Although the fact that they aren't even discussing it at this point is telling IMO) Reading my post again, I can see where it could look like I meant that.
  
  Despite what the rep claims, there is no shortage of legal scholars/professionals who disagree with said rep re: the applicability of SYG to a civil case.
  
  If the Martins choose to go down that road, it won't see opening arguments.
  
  Bank it.
• gut

  fish82;1492682 wrote: Despite what the rep claims, there is no shortage of legal scholars/professionals who disagree with said rep re: the applicability of SYG to a civil case.

  That's Zimmerman's lawyer acknowledging they need to SEEK immunity. You don't seem to be grasping that concept - SYG is not assumed, it's an affirmative defense that requires a special hearing. Also, the burden of proof in being granted immunity shifts to Zimmerman. This is absolutely not a slam dunk.
  
  SYG applying to a civil case...I'm not even sure why you are making this argument. I never stated it's not relevant to civil immunity (in fact, I've said otherwise - although you probably got confused when I wasn't clear I was referring specifically to Zimmerman). Where you seem to be confused is A) that immunity is not assumed and B) it may not apply or be granted in Zimmerman's case.
  
  And for like the 5th time, if the Martin's go down that road, then one way or another Zimmerman WILL have to testify, which probably means much more to them than the money.
• fish82

  

  gut;1492686 wrote:That's Zimmerman's lawyer acknowledging they need to SEEK immunity. You don't seem to be grasping that concept - SYG is not assumed, it's an affirmative defense that requires a special hearing. Also, the burden of proof in being granted immunity shifts to Zimmerman. This is absolutely not a slam dunk.

  I grasp it just fine. I just finished stating that my initial post was probably poorly worded.
  
  Unless the judge presiding over the hearing chooses to completely ignore the law and established precedent, it's a slam dunk.
  

  gut;1492686 wrote:SYG applying to a civil case...I'm not even sure why you are making this argument. I never stated it's not relevant to civil immunity (in fact, I've said otherwise - although you probably got confused when I wasn't clear I was referring specifically to Zimmerman). Where you seem to be confused is A) that immunity is not assumed and B) it may not apply or be granted in Zimmerman's case.

  See above. It will be granted.
  
  Confused? That's pretty funny. I've already explained twice how the miscommunication occurred.
  

  gut;1492686 wrote:And for like the 5th time, if the Martin's go down that road, then one way or another Zimmerman WILL have to testify, which probably means much more to them than the money.

  Unlikely, since they're already on record stating that "all they ever wanted" was for the case to go to trial. They got their wish.
• Tiernan

  All things Zimmerman...askfish82.com
• like_that

  

  I am sure this was already stated, but it's a joke that this is a still a thread.
• fish82

  

  Tiernan;1492885 wrote:All things Zimmerman...askfish82.com

  LOL.
  
  It sure as hell isn't asktiernan.com. I think we've pretty much established that.
• TedSheckler

  

  like_that;1492894 wrote:I am sure this was already stated, but it's a joke that this is a still a thread.

  It's a joke that this country's black leaders are still bringing him up almost daily trying to make him a martyr.
• rmolin73

  

  TedSheckler;1492985 wrote:It's a joke that this country's black leaders are still bringing him up almost daily trying to make him a martyr.

  Lol leaders.
• TedSheckler

  

  Plenty of them dropped TM's name in the MLK anniversary speeches yesterday.
• rmolin73

  

  TedSheckler;1492993 wrote:Plenty of them dropped TM's name in the MLK anniversary speeches yesterday.

  I see you are foolishly being sucked into all of that showmanship. Lol
• TedSheckler

  

  You mean the showmanship at the spot where MLK gave his speech 50 years ago that was attended by the current president and 2 former presidents? The showmanship of MLK's daughter dropping his name? Anytime you get 3 presidents together, it's kind of a big deal.
  
  It may be showmanship, but it's the black community and their "leaders", along with the media that are keeping this going.
• rmolin73

  

  TedSheckler;1493008 wrote:You mean the showmanship at the spot where MLK gave his speech 50 years ago that was attended by the current president and 2 former presidents? The showmanship of MLK's daughter dropping his name? Anytime you get 3 presidents together, it's kind of a big deal.
  
  It may be showmanship, but it's the black community and their "leaders", along with the media that are keeping this going.

  Kings daughter that is classic. Mean while fools like you bite on it and keep it going on the oc. Good job now baaaaaaa for me.
• TedSheckler

  

  Which black leaders aren't still talking about it?
• rmolin73

  

  TedSheckler;1493201 wrote:Which black leaders aren't still talking about it?

  People that have their own hidden agendas and race bait aren't black leaders. But that doesn't fit your ideology does it? Most of these characters are only relevant in the media they do absolutely nothing for the true "black community". Not the fictitious one you harp on. Baaaaaaaa for me Teddy!
• Tiernan

  I havent heard Bill Cosby mention it...isnt he a black leader?
• rmolin73

  

  Tiernan;1493234 wrote:I havent heard Bill Cosby mention it...isnt he a black leader?

  His idea of black leaders are those that shout "no justice no peace". This is after pooky the drug dealer finally got shot by the police. It cracks me up.
• gut

  fish82;1492883 wrote: Unless the judge presiding over the hearing chooses to completely ignore the law and established precedent, it's a slam dunk.

  If it was a slam dunk there never would have been a trial. There's a reason they just didn't end it all right then and there seeking SYG immunity. Not to mention the political ramifications.
  
  And the Martins have already settled with the HOA, which is actually a necessary first step in building a civil case against Zimmerman.
  
  It's going to happen. I think everyone wants Zimmerman on the stand to tell his story, ESPECIALLY the Martins.
• Gblock

  http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/09/26/shellie-zimmerman-wife-george-today-show-interview
  
  now his wife says she has doubts..not sure how i feel about this. people love to lie around divorce time but idk makes me think there is much more to the story that we will never know unless he does an OJ book one day