Herron Out For Nebraska, Posey Five Extra Games

• queencitybuckeye

  Dr Winston O'Boogie;922721 wrote:That's an arbitrary reward for what they do. For some, it's way more than they deserve. For others, it's not ever close. Are you telling me the Cam Newton was worth no more to Auburn (into perpetuity with memorabelia sales) than the cost of his tuition while he was there? Not even close.
  

  I'd argue the better measure of what the grant is worth is its value as opposed to its cost. Until the current recession, the average college graduate made something on the order of a million dollars more than the average high school grad. That's what the "free" education is worth.
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  queencitybuckeye;922738 wrote:I'd argue the better measure of what the grant is worth is its value as opposed to its cost. Until the current recession, the average college graduate made something on the order of a million dollars more than the average high school grad. That's what the "free" education is worth.

  Not to split hairs, but you are doing the same kind of accounting that Enron practiced - counting as concrete today the something that may or may not happen in the future. The value of what players receive is the costs universities incur to have them in school. If you give me a dollar, that has cost you a dollar. It does not cost you the future earnings of said dollar.
  
  Anyway, I would say again that not every player on the team is worth more than the scholarship they have been given. Some are worth less. Some are worth much, much more. And as with any artificially set price, the market is overrun with problems and innefficiencies. Everything being done by the schools and NCAA to "fix" the problems is only a band aid.
• queencitybuckeye

  Has nothing to do with accounting. If you give me something, what you paid for it is wholly and totally irrelevant in terms of determining its value to me, which is decided by the marketplace. A college education is not worth the cost of production, it's worth the value in the marketplace, which far exceeds the cost.
• sleeper

  

  ksig489;921696 wrote:All of this started because OSU did NOT self-report. Tressell lied and covered up...that is why it has gotten as bad as it has. If he reports as soon as he gets word of things...this whole thing would have ended last year with a few suspensions of players. The lies and cover up is what got the NCAA to hit them with a full investigation.

  Actually OSU did self report, Tressel did not. Don't let the actions of one man shape your opinion of the University. Also, don't let one action of a man define who the man is.
  
  That is all.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  HitsRus;922663 wrote:Gods to the jock sniffer's...pieces of meat to everyone else.

  If by jock sniffers you mean hot women that will have sex with you and employers that will hire you if you don't make the NFL, I suppose being a piece of meat isn't that bad.
  
  Getting a football scholarship at OSU is tantamount to winning the lottery. All you have to do is play and not embarrass the university, and some of these clowns can't even manage that.
• 2kool4skool

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;923035 wrote:Getting a football scholarship at OSU is tantamount to winning the lottery.

  Not really. It takes a ton of hard work and talent to get to that level of football.
• Mulva

  

  2kool4skool;923039 wrote:Not really. It takes a ton of hard work and talent to get to that level of football.

  The talent part is sort of akin to the lottery. You can't (past a certain point) teach size or speed. It's the luck of the draw. Obviously I agree with the hard work part though.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  2kool4skool;923039 wrote:Not really. It takes a ton of hard work and talent to get to that level of football.

  Fair enough, but it is no excuse for the dolts that can't understand what a privilege it is to play for OSU and the opportunities it provides. Are the guys that screw up stupid, or just incredibly stupid?
• queencitybuckeye

  Manhattan Buckeye;923070 wrote:Fair enough, but it is no excuse for the dolts that can't understand what a privilege it is to play for OSU and the opportunities it provides. Are the guys that screw up stupid, or just incredibly stupid?

  In some cases (Mo C, Pryor), stupidity borne out of an overdose of entitlement from the first moment they showed unusual talent on a field.
• thedynasty1998

  

  se-alum;922471 wrote:+1. I've always hated when people say that athletes don't get enough for the millions the school makes. Going to college on a full ride scholarship is a luxury. Alot of kids would kill to be able to attend OSU and be virtually debt free four years later. They know what they signed up for, and they should follow the rules accordingly and quit whining about not getting enough from the school.

  And a lot of kids didn't work hard enough to put themselves in a position to play at OSU. This reasoning is so pathetic and weak.
  

  ksig489;922668 wrote:pieces of meat who get a free education, no debt upon graduation, and pretty much a guaranteed job anywhere in the state because they were a Buckeye.

  Guaranteed job? Hardly. Don't put guys like Krenzel in the same category as someone like Tim Schaffer.
• 2kool4skool

  

  thedynasty1998;923178 wrote:Guaranteed job? Hardly. Don't put guys like Krenzel in the same category as someone like Tim Schaffer.

  Yeah, I'm pretty close with two guys who graduated in the last 2 years, neither a star, but both guys that hardcore OSU fans would know. Both struggled to find employment after they graduated like almost everyone else.
  

  Mulva;923053 wrote:The talent part is sort of akin to the lottery. You can't (past a certain point) teach size or speed. It's the luck of the draw. Obviously I agree with the hard work part though.

  You can't(past a certain point) improve natural intelligence. It doesn't mean that guys who graduate with a 4.0 in engineering won the lottery. It means they took their natural gifts, and worked incredibly hard to surpass even those with similar gifts.
• HitsRus

  

  Fair enough, but it is no excuse for the dolts that can't understand what a privilege it is to play for OSU and the opportunities it provides. Are the guys that screw up stupid, or just incredibly stupid?

  Might not be either...they are 19 year old kids. They may be classified as adults legally, but are reallly just in a 'trial independence' stage of development. They drive their cars too fast, stick their penis in places they shouldn't, drink alcohol to excess or experiment with drugs, and in general do things that are reckless and not well thought out. They are prone to errors of judgement. They push the envelope, skirt the rules and think they won't get caught. It doesn't matter if they play football or if they are studying to be an M.D....but for some reason because they play football we want to hold them to a higher standard and expect them to be angels, grateful for the wonderful opportunities afforded to them. Kids make mistakes. People make mistakes. But in the wonderful world of the NCAA, teachable moments turn into half season suspensions and career ruining events. Good coaches that can be mentors to these kids get trapped into making mistakes themselves.
  
  Let's look what happened here.... some kids committed a minor violation, and because the coach chose not to report it, it became a major infraction. Now we have the dog and pony show that has ensued and all the thousands of dollars wasted, man hours wasted, digging up whatever dirt can be found to ruin careers and lives.
  It's bad enough when 19 year old kids do stupid stuff that is reckless and not well thought out....but it is nothing compared to when self righteous adults get involved.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Call me self-righteous. I'd rather OSU go 3-9 then have a national championship vacated.
  
  Tressel fouled up big time and absolutely deserved to lose his job. I don't know what he was thinking when he recruited TP and why he covered up the obvious violations...but he did.
  
  These weren't minor violations, they did the one thing you can't do...get paid as an amateur.
• thedynasty1998

  

  HitsRus;923263 wrote:Might not be either...they are 19 year old kids. They may be classified as adults legally, but are reallly just in a 'trial independence' stage of development. They drive their cars too fast, stick their penis in places they shouldn't, drink alcohol to excess or experiment with drugs, and in general do things that are reckless and not well thought out. They are prone to errors of judgement. They push the envelope, skirt the rules and think they won't get caught. It doesn't matter if they play football or if they are studying to be an M.D....but for some reason because they play football we want to hold them to a higher standard and expect them to be angels, grateful for the wonderful opportunities afforded to them. Kids make mistakes. People make mistakes. But in the wonderful world of the NCAA, teachable moments turn into half season suspensions and career ruining events. Good coaches that can be mentors to these kids get trapped into making mistakes themselves.
  
  Let's look what happened here.... some kids committed a minor violation, and because the coach chose not to report it, it became a major infraction. Now we have the dog and pony show that has ensued and all the thousands of dollars wasted, man hours wasted, digging up whatever dirt can be found to ruin careers and lives.
  It's bad enough when 19 year old kids do stupid stuff that is reckless and not well thought out....but it is nothing compared to when self righteous adults get involved.

  Couldn't agree more with your 1st paragraph.
  
  But the minor violations comment isn't true. OSU had a group of guys who were hanging out at a tattoo parlor known for distributing drugs. Put that in perspective and it's indefensible.
• HitsRus

  

  These weren't minor violations, they did the one thing you can't do...get paid as an amateur.

  as if if it were that cut and dried. They traded memoribilia for tattoos. That might be clear to you and me. Maybe not so much to an inner city kid looking for a few bucks.
  Of course we can apply 1950's/60's standards to 2011....maybe if we roll back to OSU maybe getting televised twice a season....No Saturday nite games or Thurs. nite gamesor any of the dozens of games that get televised a week now. Maybe if we don't market/sell a players jersey for $80 with all the proceeds going to evrybody but the player. Maybe then you'd have an arguement.
  
  http://www.bostonphoenix.com/alt1/archive/news/96/11/14/BOSTON_COLLEGE.html
  
  

  OSU had a group of guys who were hanging out at a tattoo parlor known for distributing drugs.

  These are inner city black kids. Is that unusual? Were they caught doing anything illegal?
• Tobias Fünke

  

  sleeper;923019 wrote:Actually OSU did self report, Tressel did not. Don't let the actions of one man shape your opinion of the University. Also, don't let one action of a man define who the man is.
  
  That is all.

  Well it turns out it was several players and a coach...more than one man, and Tressel fucked up more than one time...not one action.
  
  Fail.
• Tobias Fünke

  

  HitsRus;923361 wrote:as if if it were that cut and dried. They traded memoribilia for tattoos. That might be clear to you and me. Maybe not so much to an inner city kid looking for a few bucks.

  That is the lamest fucking excuse there is. Not only that, it's mildly racist.
  
  "THESE KIDS CAN'T CONTROL THEMSELVES!! THEY'RE FROM THE HOOD!!"
  
  Then don't put low-character guys on the team, or at least so many that they ruin the whole damn squad.
  
  These kids are told on a daily basis (and yes I have friends on the team whom I talk to) what they can and cannot do. The coaches and largest compliance office in the country, if my memory proves me correctly, are all over kids telling them that they can't do that shit.
  
  It's pretty damn simple, you get:
  - a free education
  - free room and board
  - free food
  - enough tutoring assistance to kill a horse
  - monthly allowance
  - a ton of free first-class Nike team gear
  - 90% of the girls on campus
  - instruction from one of the finest coaching staffs in the country
  - play for a program that puts as many guys in the holy NFL as anyone else
  - to be a Buckeye during its most prosperous run in program history, and one of the elite teams in the country
  
  With one rule: you are an amateur athlete. Keep that status.
  
  Saying "they can't help it" is the weakest fucking cop out in the book. No offense.
  
  EDIT: plus I don't even think what you're saying is true. Posey went to Elder, no? Guys who come out of there aren't brain dead. Jeannette, PA doesn't look very hood from Google Earth...being in the middle of Pennsylvanian mountains and all.
• HitsRus

  

  ^^^Oh right, I'm the racist....while you defend their exploitation with your middle class white morality. A kid from the inner city sees drugs sold on the street corners everyday...why would they be uncomfortable in that environment? Where did I say they can't help it? I didn't...you did. You called them low character. Nice.
  
  
  Look, I'm not going to get in a piss fight with you anymore
  
  
  I'm not sure what "monthly benefits" are...you mean per diem expenses when they are on the road or at an UNPAID event on behalf of the University?
  http://www.iwu.edu/registrar/NCAA_Compliance_ExtraBenefits.pdf
• Manhattan Buckeye

  "as if if it were that cut and dried. They traded memoribilia for tattoos. That might be clear to you and me. Maybe not so much to an inner city kid looking for a few bucks."
  
  It should be clear to Tressel, the AD and the administrators you are donating money to.
  
  They accepted the money, and the job. They needed to do their jobs. Unfortunately, they didn't.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  "Posey went to Elder, no?"
  
  La Salle.
• Pick6

  

  lol @ tobias always bitching about/bringing up that OSU players get the girls. Didnt a couple, or half the team run the train on your old woman or something?? seems like you have something against that.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  thedynasty1998;923314 wrote:Couldn't agree more with your 1st paragraph.
  
  But the minor violations comment isn't true. OSU had a group of guys who were hanging out at a tattoo parlor known for distributing drugs. Put that in perspective and it's indefensible.

  I knew of a guy who distributed drugs from mcdonalds. Does that mean everyone who eats and goes to that mcdonalds are drug users/terrible people?
• Fly4Fun

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;923269 wrote:Call me self-righteous. I'd rather OSU go 3-9 then have a national championship vacated.
  
  Tressel fouled up big time and absolutely deserved to lose his job. I don't know what he was thinking when he recruited TP and why he covered up the obvious violations...but he did.
  
  These weren't minor violations, they did the one thing you can't do...get paid as an amateur.

  I don't blame Tressel for recruiting TP. He was a top recruit... from a neighboring state.
  
  As far as covering up... Tressel's biggest character flaw is his loyalty. Loyalty to coaches who don't deserve it (Bollman). Loyalty to players who abuse it (TP and apparently others too).
  
  Tressel is loyal to a fault... he needed to learn some people he needs to distance himself from.
• HitsRus

  

  It should be clear to Tressel, the AD and the administrators you are donating money to.
  
  They accepted the money, and the job. They needed to do their jobs. Unfortunately, they didn't

  I don't disagree with that. I just question why baby sitting 19 year olds should be a main focus of their job at all...and whether the penalties are comensurate with the 'crimes'. We are not talking amounts here that changes the competitive balance on the football field. We are not talking about $300,000 in loans from agents or houses or even cars. I don't see why these kids cannot make a small stipend on their 'fame' as a college athlete. Why not? Everybody else is making a ton.. If you allow a kid to make a small amount of cash, subject to a limit, and perhaps a filing of the event/job with the NCAA, alot of this crap goes away. Then maybe the NCAA can get out of the picayune investigation business. Then maybe the talking heads on ESPN would have to talk about sports instead of scandal. Now I realize that might be challenge for some of them....but there is always "E" channel.
• ksig489

  I didnt realize that Yahoo breaking a story was "Self-reporting"