The Fab 5 on ESPN

• Automatik

  

  Prescott;713088 wrote:So, it's OK for the university to make money off of the players, but not ok for the players to make money off of their name.
  
  The royalties paid to the players would not amount to very much money. My guess is they would receive 4% or 5% of the price. In the end the school would likely make more money off of jersey sales because names would be on them. It is a win-win for the player and the school.

  
  A business' goal is to generate revenue. The players are compensated with housing and and an education and MUCH more. I'm sure other Columbus residents can attest to the fact that the players are certainly "taken care of." To act like they NEED the extra funds is ridiculous.
  
  If they don't like how this business operates then feel free to find another one. As someone mentioned before: The 2nd string punter is probably selling zero jerseys. What compensation should he receive?
  
  College sports is for amateur competition. Paying players would change everything. Should fencers be paid? Womens field hockey?
  
  Like I said....tuition, housing, and the other things that go along with being a D1 athlete is plenty.
• thedynasty1998

  

  It would be interesting if someone did a study to see how much players should be paid. Say coming out of HS, and Pryor was on the open market (similar to someone graduating from with a Harvard MBA) and he has all these big schools going after him and they had to identify how much to offer him, in terms of a salary. I guarantee you that plenty of schools would have been more than willing to pay him $500,000.
  
  That number would probably be even bigger in basketball for some of the top recruits like a John Wall or Jared Sullinger.
  
  So, no, I don't think these guys are "compensated" fairly with tuition and room and board.
• Prescott

  To act like they NEED the extra funds is ridiculous.

  Who said they needed it? I think they deserve the spoils that come as a result of their names.
  

  The 2nd string punter is probably selling zero jerseys. What compensation should he receive?

  If his name doesn't sell any jerseys, he gets nothing. Does Jeff Saturday get money for the commercials that Peyton Manning does? I doubt it!

  College sports is for amateur competition. Paying players would change everything.

  College sports uses amateurs to make money. It is not that far removed from indentured servitude.
  

  An indentured servant was typically a young, unskilled(in this skilled ) laborer contracted to work for an employer for a fixed period of time, typically three to seven years, in exchange for transportation, food, clothing, lodging and other necessities during the term of their indenture.[1] They included men and women; most were under age 21, and most became helpers on farms or house servants. They were not paid wages.

  
  

  Should fencers be paid? Womens field hockey?

  If their jerseys sell.
• WebFire

  thedynasty1998;713115 wrote:It would be interesting if someone did a study to see how much players should be paid. Say coming out of HS, and Pryor was on the open market (similar to someone graduating from with a Harvard MBA) and he has all these big schools going after him and they had to identify how much to offer him, in terms of a salary. I guarantee you that plenty of schools would have been more than willing to pay him $500,000.
  
  That number would probably be even bigger in basketball for some of the top recruits like a John Wall or Jared Sullinger.
  
  So, no, I don't think these guys are "compensated" fairly with tuition and room and board.

  
  I don't get this viewpoint at all. If they want the money, go to the damn pros! Very few are superstars as freshman anyway. Play the minimum and go pro. Why is it such a ripoff? Must be tough playing 1 or 2 years of college ball with no expenses, then making millions as a pro.
• WebFire

  Prescott;713124 wrote: If their jerseys sell.

  
  Universities don't sell jerseys. So how would you know how much to pay? Would you have the university start selling jerseys with names? What about all the non-university apparel? Do they get a cut out of that as well? Who decides which players' jerseys are made, and how they are marketed? Does the equestrian team get jerseys made too?
• Automatik

  

  lol...you can't base a compensation system simply on jersey sales. It would be chaos. Why stop there? What about ticket sales? Ad revenue? Concession sales?
  
  Lets say you're a so so D1 program with one star player. I'll use Washington as an example. I have nothing to back this up, but I'm almost sure that Jake Lockers jersey is the #1 selling UW jersey of the past few years. He should be the only one compensated? What about a 3 year started on the o-line?
  
  The indentured servitude comparison is invalid. They weren't receiving an education that can be used for life.
• friendfromlowry

  Prescott;713124 wrote:If his name doesn't sell any jerseys, he gets nothing. Does Jeff Saturday get money for the commercials that Peyton Manning does? I doubt it!

  
  Jeff Saturday is still paid $3.5 million annually at the end of the day, regardless of what Peyton Manning does or doesn't do.
  I think your system would wreak havoc on college sports. You could argue that "if their jerseys sell, then they get paid" but we all know damn well that only ones making money would be the quarterbacks, running backs, and top basketball players. No one else would see a DIME. So after a while, how do you think the situation ends up with these 18-20 year old kids watching the stars of the team collect paychecks while the rest of them don't? ESPN shows Pryor breaking off seemingly impossible 20-30 yard runs but never points out the guards and tackles blocking, the receivers running their routes that Pryor didn't see, the guys down field making blocks for him.
  
  Don't you think media plays into recognition and kind of dictates who the top players are? You use to be a huge advocate off west coast players not receiving the same attention as the east coast players. You use to claim that Morrison would never beat out Reddick for POY because Morrison played at 11pm EST and no one was up watching him live. I guess it'd be interesting to see what jersey sales would have been like back in 2006 between those two. If I cared enough, I'd try and look it up...not saying it'd necessarily lean heavily in Reddick's favor, but who knows.
• Prescott

  Universities don't sell jerseys

  So, you are saying the schools receive no income from the sale of jerseys? First of all, they could sell them directly or they could just receive the licensing fees.
  

  They weren't receiving an education that can be used for life.

  They were learning a skill that could be used for life.
  

  He should be the only one compensated? What about a 3 year started on the o-line?

  If the O-Lineman has jersey sales then he gets compensated.
  
  I said jersey sales was a start and not an end product. I am trying to understand why some people think it is alright for the school to make money off of the player's name. Would it be ok if young actor had a blockbuster movie and the company kept all of the profits. That young actor is still learning his craft.
• Automatik

  

  They aren't making money off of their names. They are making it off of their skills on the field.
  
  Compensation on jersey sales is ridiculous. Its pay based on popularity.
  
  NCAA football is no different than other business. Players are paid for their services...its really not debatable.
• WebFire

  Prescott;713154 wrote:So, you are saying the schools receive no income from the sale of jerseys? First of all, they could sell them directly or they could just receive the licensing fees.

  
  It is illegal to sell anything with the name or likeness of a player. So no, the schools do not sell jerseys.
• WebFire

  Automatik;713156 wrote:They aren't making money off of their names. They are making it off of their skills on the field.
  
  Compensation on jersey sales is ridiculous. Its pay based on popularity.
  
  NCAA football is no different than other business. Players are paid for their services...its really not debatable.

  I agree 100%.
• thedynasty1998

  

  WebFire;713130 wrote:I don't get this viewpoint at all. If they want the money, go to the damn pros! Very few are superstars as freshman anyway. Play the minimum and go pro. Why is it such a ripoff? Must be tough playing 1 or 2 years of college ball with no expenses, then making millions as a pro.

  
  An 18 year old who graduates HS this year cannot go to the NBA nor the NFL.
  
  The current system for college basketball is a complete joke. Universities are "renting" players for one year and providing them with a room and board. The players don't give a shit about their tuition and more often than not, if they are a one and done, are not going to class anyways.
  
  NCAA is absolutely a minor league system for the NFL and the NBA and they make billions off of it. Do I wish there was a minor league system for the NBA and NFL? Absolutely. But the NCAA will never allow it, because they are too powerful.
• stroups

  

  lol at jersey sales... do you really want to open up that can of worms with Phil fucking Knight and Oregon? Have you ever been to a game or seen the crowds at Alabama? they don't wear Jerseys. The money that the university is making "off these kids" is not going directly into some rich old white guys pocket, it's being reinvested back into the university and helps support the various other programs that don't create any profit.
• Prescott

  They aren't making money off of their names. They are making it off of their skills on the field.

  Not neccesarily. I think Mark Titus would have sold some jerseys with his name on them. What skills did he bring to the court.
  Do you think more jerseys would be sold if the jerseys had names on them? I sure do. The name has value and the player should receive some compensation for that.
  

  Compensation on jersey sales is ridiculous. Its pay based on popularity.

  So are many things and people. It isn't ridiculous at all. Popularity drives advertising revenue on a network. Popularity sells music.
  

  NCAA football is no different than other business. Players are paid for their services...its really not debatable.

  What is debatable is are they getting paid a fair price for their game and their name.
• stroups

  

  thedynasty1998;713191 wrote:An 18 year old who graduates HS this year cannot go to the NBA nor the NFL.
  
  The current system for college basketball is a complete joke. Universities are "renting" players for one year and providing them with a room and board. The players don't give a shit about their tuition and more often than not, if they are a one and done, are not going to class anyways.
  
  NCAA is absolutely a minor league system for the NFL and the NBA and they make billions off of it. Do I wish there was a minor league system for the NBA and NFL? Absolutely. But the NCAA will never allow it, because they are too powerful.

  
  There is not rule stating that a kid has to go to college to play in the NBA or NFL, it just says they have to be removed from high school for 1 or 3 years. I personally like the current system and see nothing wrong with generating money for a public school.
• Prescott

  Here is a great item on ebay for you.
  
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Ohio-State-Practice-Used-Basketball-Jersey-Jon-Diebler-/270719852467
• thedynasty1998

  

  Prescott;713200 wrote:Not neccesarily. I think Mark Titus would have sold some jerseys with his name on them. What skills did he bring to the court.

  EXCELLENT POINT ABOUT TITUS! People don't realize that the OSU actually restricts how much money a student athlete can make, and Titus comes up with a brilliant idea and can't even benefit from it. I would love for someone to explain that one.
  

  stroups;713204 wrote:There is not rule stating that a kid has to go to college to play in the NBA or NFL, it just says they have to be removed from high school for 1 or 3 years. I personally like the current system and see nothing wrong with generating money for a public school.

  Yea, yea, we know. It's the same argument all the time. But everyone knows that a HS senior who excels in football and wants to play in the NFL has no choice but to go to a NCAA establishment. Sure, in basketball they can go overseas, but what kind of an option is that? The NCAA is absolutely 100% a minor league system for the pros.
• thedynasty1998

  

  Prescott;713215 wrote:Here is a great item on ebay for you.
  
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Ohio-State-Practice-Used-Basketball-Jersey-Jon-Diebler-/270719852467

  
  $125 for something that costs $20 at Buckeye Corner. And yes, someone is profiting off of that sale, but it's not the player himself.
  
  (BTW who the fuck spends $125 on that?!)
• Automatik

  

  Prescott;713200 wrote:Not neccesarily. I think Mark Titus would have sold some jerseys with his name on them. What skills did he bring to the court.
  Do you think more jerseys would be sold if the jerseys had names on them? I sure do. The name has value and the player should receive some compensation for that.
  
  
  So are many things and people. It isn't ridiculous at all. Popularity drives advertising revenue on a network. Popularity sells music.
  
  
  What is debatable is are they getting paid a fair price for their game and their name.

  
  I think the current compensation for their age, PLUS grooming them for the possibility to make millions is plenty. As stroups said portions of revenue is put back into the university. Have you seen the insane amount of construction going on at OSU the past few years? Hell, the entire athletic department pulls money from football based profits.
• friendfromlowry

  thedynasty1998;713191 wrote: Universities are "renting" players for one year and providing them with a room and board. The players don't give a shit about their tuition and more often than not, if they are a one and done, are not going to class anyways.

  
  That is their choice. The rules force them to go to school for at least a year -- it's up to them to make the most of it. Not everyone is a John Wall and their major is professional basketball. They have the opportunity to earn a FREE college degree. Regardless of how much money they may earn in the pros, there must be something else in life they're passionate about...something they'd like to do after their ball-playing days are over. Well this is their chance to earn that free...never having to worry about tuition, books, food, housing. Shit how many people in the country can't afford college as is? And we're bitching about these eventual-millionaires not becoming richer sooner?? The best we can do for them is a free college education? How unfortunate and unfair to them.
  
  IMO, I don't see how the players aren't "renting" the universities to an extent. Most of them can go wherever the hell they want based on what exactly they're looking for. If guys want the exposure and success, they attend Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc. If they want to stay close to home, they're Sullinger and go to OSU. Or they can be like O.J. Mayo and go play in beautiful southern California for the hell of it.
  What about the players who coming out of high school are good enough to be picked somewhere in the second round? By NBA standards, that's going to be a pretty unimpressive salary. To you or me, that'd be a lot of money, but to an NBA player, it may not go as far as you'd think. So they go to college for a year or however long they want, improve their stock, and eventually end up as first-round or even lottery pick and just earned themselves a lot more money...and this player didn't go to UConn or wherever because it was his life-long dream to be a Huskie; he went there because it was best for him.
• thedynasty1998

  

  friendfromlowry;713227 wrote:That is their choice. The rules force them to go to school for at least a year -- it's up to them to make the most of it. Not everyone is a John Wall and their major is professional basketball. They have the opportunity to earn a FREE college degree. Regardless of how much money they may earn in the pros, there must be something else in life they're passionate about...something they'd like to do after their ball-playing days are over. Well this is their chance to earn that free...never having to worry about tuition, books, food, housing. Shit how many people in the country can't afford college as is?

  
  That is such a poor argument. Yes, I agree it's a very small percentage, but you really think John Wall gives a shit about some freshman level general studies course, as if it's going to provide him with the foundation for things later in life? These guys will have so much money they pay people to know how to run business, invest their money and run car washes.
  
  Do I think guys always make the right decision in leaving early? No. Guys make mistakes and I'm sure down the road they wish they would have taken advantage of the opportunities. But Jared Sullinger, John Wall and guys like that are majoring in BASKETBALL. That's their ticket and that's what they spend their time, while in college, working on.
  
  Someone that is pre med spends their time studying and learning biology. Guys who are studying basketball have no desire going to a 500 person lectures.
• ytownfootball

  

  Jalen Rose, Webber and Jujuan earned a combined $426 million in the league...I'd say they got fairly compensated.
  
  Heard that on the Dan Patrick show today, must say it kinda blew me away, stfu and play.
• friendfromlowry

  thedynasty1998;713235 wrote:That is such a poor argument. Yes, I agree it's a very small percentage, but you really think John Wall gives a shit about some freshman level general studies course, as if it's going to provide him with the foundation for things later in life?

  
  This isn't a poor argument? For what person does some freshmen level general studies course provide the foundation for things later in life? I don't remember what I learned in my freshmen psychology, math, english, or sociology classes -- but I took them like everyone else. That's what you have to do if you want to earn a degree in anything. John Wall doesn't give a shit about it and neither does anyone else.
  I understand that basketball is their ticket, but if they ever want to do anything else in life after the age of 37 (Shaq is a great example), this is their chance to knock out all or most of it for free.
  
  At age 18 they're already given opportunities that most other people in this country will never know the joy of.
• stroups

  

  Here is Jason Whitlocks view and I have to say I agree on a lot of points he makes
  
  http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/ESPN-The-Fab-Five-documentary-Jalen-Rose-Chris-Webber-Juwan-Howard-Jimmy-King-Ray-Jackson-031511
• thedynasty1998

  

  friendfromlowry;713250 wrote:This isn't a poor argument? For what person does some freshmen level general studies course provide the foundation for things later in life? I don't remember what I learned in my freshmen psychology, math, english, or sociology classes -- but I took them like everyone else. That's what you have to do if you want to earn a degree in anything. John Wall doesn't give a shit about it and neither does anyone else.
  I understand that basketball is their ticket, but if they ever want to do anything else in life after the age of 37 (Shaq is a great example), this is their chance to knock out all or most of it for free.
  
  At age 18 they're already given opportunities that most other people in this country will never know the joy of.

  
  My point was that the general study classes are meaningless to these guys. They don't care about a degree. And you think them taking advantage of a $30,000 a year scholarship is more beneficial than them making the $1,000,000 that they would be making if they were playing in the NBA as 18 year olds, rather than spending a year in college?
  
  If college is that important, they go back when they are 35 and pay their tuition with the cash that they would normally spend in a weekend in Vegas.