The Fab 5 on ESPN

• Automatik

  

  bigkahuna;713977 wrote:I don't think it's the fact that people don't want some kid's name on the back of their jersey.
  
  People buy college jerseys because it represents the the school. The number is an afterthought because it can literally represent a dozen of different players.
  
  Like I said before, putting names on the back of the jerseys would end up hurting the game, especially the smaller schools.

  
  I agree. Its a stupid thought and it would NEVER happen.
• bigkahuna

  thedynasty1998;713980 wrote:The number is not an afterthought. If that were the case, Nike would print every single jersey with a #1 on it. But they don't, because people want the jersey of their favorite players.
  
  It might be an afterthought for you personally, but the majority of people disagree with you.

  
  They produce the same jerseys every year though.
  I can get the following Michigan Jerseys whenever I want
  #1
  #2
  #20
  #16
  #86
  #32
  
  For each number listed, there have been at least 5 people I'm guessing that have worn it and made it memorable.
  
  Like someone else said, what about ticket revenue? People are always going to buy jerseys no matter who is wearing them/how the team is doing. However, if players are exciting/team is doing really good, then people are going to be willing to buy tickets to see them play.
  
  Should they charge for autographs?
  
  It's just a dumb idea in general. You're going to pay the superstars and not the workhorses that help get them there. I'm looking at Kentucky's basketball team this year. I'm willing to bet that people are buying #12 jerseys left and right. However, #55, #32, and #1 are the workhorses that help #12 shine, how are they going to get compensated?
  
  I thought the pros got paid based on performance and not popularity. Sure they get paid through endorsements, but what shitty player gets endorsement deals, so why should college be different?
• WebFire

  If you were ever going to pay players, you'd have to do a base for all scholly players, but some incentives. Maybe $x extra for being a starter, $x extra for passing for 1,000 yards, etc.
  
  IDK. Just don't see how and why it should work.
• WebFire

  bigkahuna;714071 wrote:They produce the same jerseys every year though.
  I can get the following Michigan Jerseys whenever I want
  #1
  #2
  #20
  #16
  #86
  #32
  
  For each number listed, there have been at least 5 people I'm guessing that have worn it and made it memorable.

  False...
  
  #1 - Anthony Carter
  #2 - Charles Woodson
  #20 - Mike Hart
  #16 - John Navarre
  #86 - Mario Manningham
  #32 - A-Train
  
  That's why you can buy those numbers.
• thedynasty1998

  

  WebFire;714080 wrote:False...
  
  #1 - Anthony Carter
  #2 - Charles Woodson
  #20 - Mike Hart
  #16 - John Navarre
  #86 - Mario Manningham
  #32 - A-Train
  
  That's why you can buy those numbers.

  I'm not a Michigan fan, so didn't know who they were. But like at OSU, you can still buy #45 and #27 and people are not buying those (often pay more) only because it says OSU, they are buying it because of Griffin and George.
  
  That's a separate issue, but I really don't know how the NCAA can get away with profiting from players even after they are gone. I know there was a lawsuit recently, but I never heard the outcome. I have a buddy who paid probably $200 for an authentic Jack Tatum jersey, but I bet Tatum didn't see a penny.
• karen lotz

  

  Grant Hill's response to the Fab 5 documentary and more directly, Jalen Rose's comments.
  
  http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/
• se-alum

  

  Surprising that a Jalen Rose produced piece tried to make the Fab 5 out as victims. Terribly done.
• se-alum

  

  Also, probably the only time I've agreed or been able to read an entire Jason Whitlock article.
  
  http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/ESPN-The-Fab-Five-documentary-Jalen-Rose-Chris-Webber-Juwan-Howard-Jimmy-King-Ray-Jackson-031511
• Prescott

  Those folks are selling unlicensed NCAA merchandise. And with a license, the NCAA does not allow names or likeness.

  I am not sure they are. It is clear what they are referencing, but there is no direct reference.
• WebFire

  Prescott;714326 wrote:I am not sure they are. It is clear what they are referencing, but there is no direct reference.

  
  Name and likeness is included in licensing. That shirt is clearly selling likeness to a certain player. Many Shoelace shirts have been ordered off shelves by the university because of violation fears (this was during the NCAA investigation).
  
  Who was it that sued EA sports over the game because of likeness?
• Iliketurtles

  

  WebFire;714335 wrote:Name and likeness is included in licensing. That shirt is clearly selling likeness to a certain player. Many Shoelace shirts have been ordered off shelves by the university because of violation fears (this was during the NCAA investigation).
  
  Who was it that sued EA sports over the game because of likeness?

  I don't remember but it was a fan of a school in the stands I believe because they had him in the game. I'll try and look it up.
• stroups

  

  WebFire;714335 wrote:Name and likeness is included in licensing. That shirt is clearly selling likeness to a certain player. Many Shoelace shirts have been ordered off shelves by the university because of violation fears (this was during the NCAA investigation).
  
  Who was it that sued EA sports over the game because of likeness?

  An terrible Nebraska QB with a hot girlfriend... that is all I remember about him with out using google(which I will because I want to see his GF)
• stroups

  

  and here she is...
  
• Manhattan Buckeye

  The "Fab Five" were around at the peak of my college basketball interest, to call them anything close to groundbreaking is ridiculous - they were notorious for starting five freshman and for making two great tourney runs, but other than that they were just another very good college program. And there wasn't anything fab about the five. Ray Jackson stunk (and Jimmy King wasn't all that great) - Eric Riley and Rob Pelinka contributed a lot more than Jackson did.
• bigkahuna

  WebFire;714080 wrote:False...
  
  #1 - Anthony Carter
  #2 - Charles Woodson
  #20 - Mike Hart
  #16 - John Navarre
  #86 - Mario Manningham
  #32 - A-Train
  
  That's why you can buy those numbers.

  
  Maybe not 5/number, but what's your point? What I'm saying is that people don't go out and buy a jersey simply because there is someone playing this year with said number.
  You helped me show what I'm saying though. Mike Hart and Mario Manningham were the last ones to wear those jerseys, and that was Jan. 1, 2008, yet we still buy those numbers.
• thedynasty1998

  

  bigkahuna;714468 wrote:What's your point? What I'm saying is that people don't go out and buy a jersey simply because there is someone playing this year with said number.
  You helped me show what I'm saying though. Mike Hart and Mario Manningham were the last ones to wear those jerseys, and that was Jan. 1, 2008, yet we still buy those numbers.

  
  You are wrong. How many people will go out and replace their Cam Heyward jersey with someone on the current roster? Once a player graduates, people want to replace those jerseys. The NCAA and the Universities benefit greatly from the turnover in star players from one year to the next.
• thedynasty1998

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;714418 wrote:The "Fab Five" were around at the peak of my college basketball interest, to call them anything close to groundbreaking is ridiculous - they were notorious for starting five freshman and for making two great tourney runs, but other than that they were just another very good college program. And there wasn't anything fab about the five. Ray Jackson stunk (and Jimmy King wasn't all that great) - Eric Riley and Rob Pelinka contributed a lot more than Jackson did.

  
  I don't disagree with you often, but I do here. The name "Fab 5" stuck for a reason. They had a swagger to them. They may not have been groundbreaking, but they were absolutely trend setters and had an appeal to them that few teams ever have.
• bigkahuna

  thedynasty1998;714474 wrote:You are wrong. How many people will go out and replace their Cam Heyward jersey with someone on the current roster? Once a player graduates, people want to replace those jerseys. The NCAA and the Universities benefit greatly from the turnover in star players from one year to the next.

  
  How many people keep jerseys from year to year though? I'm willing to bet that people DON'T go purchase a new jersey from year to year. It's more like having a jersey until it wears out and buying whatever is available at the time.
  
  Like I said, you see a lot of #16 Michigan jerseys. How many were bought this year from Denard Robinson vs. bought them the last couple years because they were already being produced?
  
  Jersey Sales= popularity not quality of the player
  
  I remember when I was a freshman and sophomore in college. Lots of people had #4 BGSU jerseys because of Omar Jacobs. He was the star of the team, but the team was mediocre (9-3 6-5 0-2 vs. Toledo and 0 MAC Championships). Did he deserve to be paid for his jersey sales? No, because the team didn't win.
  
  I'm sure Denard Robinson sold a ton of #16 jerseys this year, but the team didn't win. I know the defense was terrible but that's a different story.
  
  If you want to reward players with on the field accomplishments, that's somewhat understandable but to reward them because their popular is ridiculous. It's been said 1,000x, if you do that, then the skill players are going to be the ones getting paid and the linemen/work horses helping them succeed are going to be forgotten about. As an OSU fan, did you or anyone you know have an Orlando Pace Jersey or Nick Mangold?
• Al Bundy

  If there was a way to make money, don't you think someone would start a pro league for 18 year olds? They could market whatever they wanted to.
• bigkahuna

  Al Bundy;714585 wrote:If there was a way to make money, don't you think someone would start a pro league for 18 year olds? They could market whatever they wanted to.

  
  "NCAA and NFL wouldn't allow it"
  
  This will be the next 10 responses to this.
• WebFire

  bigkahuna;714468 wrote:Maybe not 5/number, but what's your point? What I'm saying is that people don't go out and buy a jersey simply because there is someone playing this year with said number.
  You helped me show what I'm saying though. Mike Hart and Mario Manningham were the last ones to wear those jerseys, and that was Jan. 1, 2008, yet we still buy those numbers.

  
  Sorry, I thought you were arguing the difference. People do indeed buy the jersey with the number in mind. Typically a person will buy a jersey for a current popular player, and then keep it for that player. And that jersey number continues to be sold because of the player until someone comes along and does just as well or better.
  
  #2 for Michigan is sold to this day for Charles Woodson, not Crable or V. Smith.
• Al Bundy

  bigkahuna;714590 wrote:"NCAA and NFL wouldn't allow it"
  
  This will be the next 10 responses to this.

  
  If there were some way to make money, people would finance the league. The NCAA and NFL wouldn't have a legal way to stop it. The truth is that the programs make the money, not the players. If Pryor played for a minor league team instead of OSU, how many people would go the games? How many people would buy his jersey?
• ytownfootball

  

  The NFL and the NCAA have what is essentially a monopoly, though not illegal by any means. Fought and won early entrance (Mo C), and let the USFL and that venture Vince McMahon tried (XFL?) just fail on their own...can't break that thing up.
• thedynasty1998

  

  ytownfootball;714634 wrote:The NFL and the NCAA have what is essentially a monopoly, though not illegal by any means. Fought and won early entrance (Mo C), and let the USFL and that venture Vince McMahon tried (XFL?) just fail on their own...can't break that thing up.

  
  That's what my argument was going to be. The only reason minor league baseball works, is because MLB supports it.
  
  The NFL and NBA won't support a minor league system because they have one in place in the NCAA, and because they have a monopoly they make it impossible for another league to be competitive.
• bigkahuna

  WebFire;714608 wrote:Sorry, I thought you were arguing the difference. People do indeed buy the jersey with the number in mind. Typically a person will buy a jersey for a current popular player, and then keep it for that player. And that jersey number continues to be sold because of the player until someone comes along and does just as well or better.
  
  #2 for Michigan is sold to this day for Charles Woodson, not Crable or V. Smith.

  
  I completely agree with you. I think I said something about Woodson #2 earlier in another post. Which brings the question, If I buy a #2 jersey tomorrow, should VS get $$$ for it? Because most of us still look at that number and think Woodson. VS hasn't really "earned" that money.