Archive

Rank Terrelle Pryor among OSU QBs

  • enigmaax
    dat dude;491676 wrote:Several guys? All I have commented on is regarding the ranking of Boeckman, which is terrible. There is a reason Tressel started Pryor over Boeckman in TP's freshman year. And it takes a lot for Tressel to bench an upperclassman. A lot.

    Well, I really thought you might bring a little more. But your argument is that Pryor won a Rose Bowl and Boeckman lost a national title game. And you must be right because Tressel benched Boeckman for Pryor. That decision doesn't make it the right decision. Tressel was banking on Pryor's raw athleticism and upside a few years down the road as well. Big deal. It hasn't panned out yet. Maybe it will. But it hasn't yet and we are talking about right now.

    So would you like to try something else?
  • dat dude
    enigmaax;491688 wrote:Well, I really thought you might bring a little more. But your argument is that Pryor won a Rose Bowl and Boeckman lost a national title game. And you must be right because Tressel benched Boeckman for Pryor. That decision doesn't make it the right decision. Tressel was banking on Pryor's raw athleticism and upside a few years down the road as well. Big deal. It hasn't panned out yet. Maybe it will. But it hasn't yet and we are talking about right now.

    So would you like to try something else?

    How about career stats?

    Pryor: 36 TDs, 17 INTs, 1575 yards rushing - 15 TDs

    Boeckman: 31 TDs, 16 INTs, 86 yards rushing - 1 TD

    LOL
  • enigmaax
    Ha ha. Yeah, what is the difference between the TDs-INTs - I already told you how to equalize those numbers based on attempts, etc....Boeckman was the better passer.

    I also already said awhile ago, Pryor has more rushing yards. Boeckman wasn't a running QB, so that is no surprise. How did Pryor run the ball in his big games (yeah, save your Rose Bowl, I know)? If you can't win with your biggest strength that is supposed to separate you from another QB, what do all those yards really mean? For all of Pryor's running ability and for as much of a statue as Boeckman was in the pocket, Boeckman took less sacks per pass attempt.
  • dat dude
    enigmaax;491714 wrote:If you can't win with your biggest strength that is supposed to separate you from another QB, what do all those yards really mean?
    First downs??? What kind of question is that?
    enigmaax;491714 wrote: For all of Pryor's running ability and for as much of a statue as Boeckman was in the pocket, Boeckman took less sacks per pass attempt.
    Great. You can take your "less sacks per pass attempt" and I'll take 1500 yards rushing and 14 more TDs. Btw, sacks count as negative rushing yards in college.

    And I would be careful in talking performance in big games. In Pryor's biggest game, he performed. In Boeckman's biggest game, he sucked.
  • enigmaax
    dat dude;491729 wrote:First downs??? What kind of question is that?

    Great. You can take your "less sacks per pass attempt" and I'll take 1500 yards rushing and 14 more TDs.

    And I would be careful in talking performance in big games. In Pryor's biggest game, he performed. In Boeckman's biggest game, he sucked.
    So, two direct questions....please give direct answers. You'd take Pryor's biggest choke(s) in games that kept OSU out of a title game, against mediocre to bad competition over Boeckman's big choke in the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP game? To you, a Rose Bowl win is better than playing for the NC?
  • dat dude
    enigmaax;491737 wrote:So, two direct questions....please give direct answers. You'd take Pryor's biggest choke(s) in games that kept OSU out of a title game, against mediocre to bad competition over Boeckman's big choke in the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP game? To you, a Rose Bowl win is better than playing for the NC?

    Aren't we talking best QBs in OSU history? Why would one game be the determining factor? Looking at career numbers (which would be the operative facts), Pryor has clearly performed better.

    And your questions deal with different variables. Not all seasons are equal. Most Buckeye fans acknowledge how fortunate OSU was to sneak into the NC game in '07. That had little to do with Boeckman's play, as he clearly struggled down the stretch.

    Let me guess, you think Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino?
  • enigmaax
    dat dude;491741 wrote:Aren't we talking best QBs in OSU history? Why would one game be the determining factor? Looking at career numbers (which would be the operative facts), Pryor has clearly performed better.

    And your questions deal with different variables. Not all seasons are equal. Most Buckeye fans acknowledge how fortunate OSU was to sneak into the NC game in '07. That had little to do with Boeckman's play, as he clearly struggled down the stretch.

    Let me guess, you think Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino?

    So, you just aren't going to answer? The thing is, you laughed at the fact that I'd have Boeckman above Pryor. But you have yet to show why there isn't at least room to debate, even if we disagree. The onus isn't on me anymore and you've got nothing that shows Pryor is far and away better than Boeckman. You've now reduced it to, "well, there are different variables from season to season". No shit, that applies to every season. Guess we shouldn't try to compare anyone since every season is different.
  • dat dude
    Did you not see my post with the career stats? If you are going to play the "leader" and the "intangible qualities" card, then I can't please you. And if you think Boeckman "led" OSU to the NC game that year, then you didn't watch much of the season. But there is absolutely no way I would trade Pryor for Boeckman at this moment, and I really doubt any other Buckeye fans would either. Essentially, that is the premise of the thread.

    So, Dilfer>Marino?
  • enigmaax
    dat dude;491741 wrote:
    Let me guess, you think Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino?

    Maybe not before their careers played out. But we have the benefit of hindsight and we are evaluating history, not who we thought we'd want more before they were done. If you gave me my choice to have Trent Dilfer and win a Super Bowl or Dan Marino and not win a Super Bowl, I'd take Trent Dilfer, yes.
  • enigmaax
    dat dude;491747 wrote:Did you not see my post with the career stats? If you are going to play the "leader" and the "intangible qualities" card, then I can't please you. And if you think Boeckman "led" OSU to the NC game that year, then you didn't watch much of the season. But there is absolutely no way I would trade Pryor for Boeckman at this moment, and I really doubt any other Buckeye fans would either. Essentially, that is the premise of the thread.

    So, Dilfer>Marino?
    Right...and if rushing yards are more important to you than passing ability - was Boeckman a better passer?...or are you going to ignore that question, too? - and not playing like shit against crappy teams to cost your team a shot at the title, I guess we just have different ideas of what makes someone better overall. Maybe Boeckman didn't "lead", but he also didn't lose the games that he should've won that cost his team a shot at the title.
  • dat dude
    enigmaax;491752 wrote:Maybe Boeckman didn't "lead", but he also didn't lose the games that he should've won that cost his team a shot at the title.

    Didn't he lost at home to Illinois while going 13-23 for 156 yards and 3 INTs when OSU was 10-0 and #1 in the nation?? Smh.
  • enigmaax
    dat dude;491761 wrote:Didn't he lost at home to Illinois while going 13-23 for 156 yards and 3 INTs when OSU was 10-0 and #1 in the nation?? Smh.

    To a Rose Bowl team? Okay, well, it wasn't...Purdue.

    But since you seem to avoid all of my questions, I'll try one more just so I'm sure I understand. Your compelling argument for why Pryor is laughably better than Boeckman is because Pryor won a Rose Bowl and has more career yards rushing? Is that a fair summary?

    I'm out for the night. When you get a chance, I'm interested to know where you'd rank Pryor to get back to the overall topic. I don't have him in my top ten OSU QBs. Where do you have him?
  • Pick6
    enigmaax;491737 wrote:So, two direct questions....please give direct answers. You'd take Pryor's biggest choke(s) in games that kept OSU out of a title game, against mediocre to bad competition over Boeckman's big choke in the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP game? To you, a Rose Bowl win is better than playing for the NC?

    You are wrong again. OSU's national title hopes were dashed after the USC game. The SEC champion was going to be in the national championship no matter what, and OSU would not have leaped Texas after losing to USC.
  • dat dude
    enigmaax;491782 wrote:To a Rose Bowl team? Okay, well, it wasn't...Purdue.

    But since you seem to avoid all of my questions, I'll try one more just so I'm sure I understand. Your compelling argument for why Pryor is laughably better than Boeckman is because Pryor won a Rose Bowl and has more career yards rushing? Is that a fair summary?

    Bottom line: line up both player's respective stats together and add in the fact that in the two seasons that Pryor was a starter his SOS was better than Boeckman in 2007, and its an easy choice.

    Also, is the only fact you are hanging your hat on is that Missouri and West Virginia both lost their last regular season game so that OSU could back into the NC game? Oh ya, and that backing in was led by Boeckman, of course. The same Boeckman who combined to go 26-62 for 414 yards, 2 TD and 6 INTs in the biggest 3 games of his life (final 3 games of '07 season, not including debacle at USC, 14-21 84 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs)?

    And I'll ask, do rushing yards not account for offense? Why do you continue to discredit rushing yards, just because they came from the quarterback position? This isn't "Who is the better passer?"
  • sleeper
    Troy Smith is the best college QB I've ever seen, obviously isn't translating to the pros but we've heard that before.

    Krenzel is #2 because he brought us to the promise land.

    Pryor is probably #3, bank it.
  • Ty Webb
    sleeper;491817 wrote:Troy Smith is the best college QB I've ever see, obviously isn't translating to the pros but we've heard that before.

    Krenzel is #2 because he brought us to the promise land.

    Pryor is probably #3, bank it.


    Not even close
  • believer
    that_guy;491223 wrote:Bellisari above Krenzel????
    OK OK OK I modified the list. There isn't much difference among the QB's from about #9 down anyways!
    1. Rex Kern
    2. Troy Smith
    3. Joe Germaine
    4. Terrell Pryor
    5. Art Schlichter
    6. Cornelius Greene
    7. Bobby Hoying
    8. Stan Jackson
    9. Craig Krenzel
    10. Steve Bellisari
    11. Kent Graham
    12. Mike Tomczak
    13. Greg Frey
    14. Todd Boeckman
    15. Kirk Herbstreit
    16. Tom Tupa
    17. Jim Karsatos
  • 0311sdp
    Rex Kern although for sure a winner, was not a very skilled passer. He played on really good running OSU teams and he himself was a gifted runner. I have watched OSU football for nearly 50 years and I think Troy Smith has been the best of the bunch, I like Mike Tomczak at #2. Terrell Pryor despite everyones complaining could and probably will be the best by the time he leaves. Without him the last 2 years the Buckeye offense really would not be too good. Boom Herron and Brandon Saine are not elite running backs, without Pryor you have no running game against the good teams example Miami.
  • Tiernan
    Kern & Krenzel have NC rings...nuf said.
  • enigmaax
    Pick6;491796 wrote:You are wrong again. OSU's national title hopes were dashed after the USC game. The SEC champion was going to be in the national championship no matter what, and OSU would not have leaped Texas after losing to USC.

    Oh, I forgot. Who quarterbacked that USC loss?......And put up a paltry 15 points at home against a team that went on to lose to Washington and have 47 and 55 hung on them later. His stat line in that game (I've already posted all of this, not sure where you got that I was "wrong" about his sucking against inferior competition - should they not have beaten USC at home?): 11-25-177-0 TDs - 1 INT (44% completions); 10 carries 36 yards (with one run accounting for 17 of those)
  • enigmaax
    dat dude;491804 wrote:Bottom line: line up both player's respective stats together and add in the fact that in the two seasons that Pryor was a starter his SOS was better than Boeckman in 2007, and its an easy choice.

    Also, is the only fact you are hanging your hat on is that Missouri and West Virginia both lost their last regular season game so that OSU could back into the NC game? Oh ya, and that backing in was led by Boeckman, of course. The same Boeckman who combined to go 26-62 for 414 yards, 2 TD and 6 INTs in the biggest 3 games of his life (final 3 games of '07 season, not including debacle at USC, 14-21 84 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs)?

    And I'll ask, do rushing yards not account for offense? Why do you continue to discredit rushing yards, just because they came from the quarterback position? This isn't "Who is the better passer?"

    SOS? Oh geez, now you are really stretching. Still, Pryor's worst games didn't necessarily come against his better competition. I've already shown you Pryor's numbers in the games that had the biggest impact on his legacy. The only thing special about them is they are what separates the greatness of his potential from the reality that he is an average quarterback that has won a lot of other games with a good team around him (sound familiar?).
  • Pick6
    enigmaax;491903 wrote:Oh, I forgot. Who quarterbacked that USC loss?......And put up a paltry 15 points at home against a team that went on to lose to Washington and have 47 and 55 hung on them later. His stat line in that game (I've already posted all of this, not sure where you got that I was "wrong" about his sucking against inferior competition - should they not have beaten USC at home?): 11-25-177-0 TDs - 1 INT (44% completions); 10 carries 36 yards (with one run accounting for 17 of those)

    If you really want to compare scores...Oregon should have beat us by about 50. I would take a Rose Bowl win over a National Championship embarrasment anyday
  • Sonofanump
    believer;491879 wrote:OK OK OK I modified the list.

    You have two guys who were good enough to have long NFL careers behind Bellisari who was a LB who took snaps and threw the ball.
  • dat dude
    enigmaax;491905 wrote:SOS? Oh geez, now you are really stretching. Still, Pryor's worst games didn't necessarily come against his better competition. I've already shown you Pryor's numbers in the games that had the biggest impact on his legacy. The only thing special about them is they are what separates the greatness of his potential from the reality that he is an average quarterback that has won a lot of other games with a good team around him (sound familiar?).

    Sorry the SOS factor doesn't work in your favor. Hence, your easy dismissal.

    But that's the whole point - TB breezed through easy competition before coming up like a lame duck in his last 3 games of the season. He was a beneficiary of an easy schedule. Have you seen Boeckman's numbers in the "games that had the biggest impact on his legacy?" They are terrible.

    And, my point still stands. Line those stat lines up together along with the SOS fact and its a no brainer. Literally the only thing in your favor is the back-in NC game. The same game in which he was absolutely miserable.
  • enigmaax
    Pick6;491908 wrote: If you really want to compare scores...Oregon should have beat us by about 50.
    What should have happened is that OSU demolished USC at home. Just because they underperformed in that game doesn't mean you should expect them to underperform every time out.
    Pick6;491908 wrote:I would take a Rose Bowl win over a National Championship embarrasment anyday
    Okay. I just find it weird to say that you'd rather lose games you shouldn't during the regular season just so you can win your last game. That is reducing your expectations to fit underachievement. I don't get that, but at least that explains your angle.