Orrville Basketball

• Bestrider

  BigP - hahahahaha....what a joke!
• THE4RINGZ

  

  So getting back to the current team. Is all this drama a distraction going into the tournament or can Sly rally the troops for a deep run?
• RedRider1

  

  old rider,
  i know...no sense in trying to argue a long dead issue.
  
  Back to basketball....hope we can notch another win over Wooster. It's possible that our next 4 games will be on that floor, so get used to playing there.
  
  ringz,
  I dont think it's a distraction at all....i think the kids have moved on....and I'm glad Sly is the one running the show. Still think we need to win districts to really put things in the rearview mirror. Let's be realistic, if Orrville is in the district, we're expected to win it. This year is no different.
• THE4RINGZ

  

  I like Sly as your coach glad to hear your confidence in him. Tough tourney coming up. You're my third favorite team in it. Kids go to Triway and I am a Northwestern alum. You ynderstand. Good luck Riders
• RedRider1

  

  We certainly do. We've got something to prove...but it wont be easy. Smithville, Triway or Northwestern will be tough matchups....and that's not even talking about Hillsdale.
  
  I think straight up, we're tough to beat....but we've had difficulty dealing with anything other than man defense. Gotta play our game and not worry about what defense teams are playing.
• Series62

  Old Rider wrote: RR1...better to just let it rest with series62, aka bigP. Not worth your breath. He suddenly jumps back on the huddle to see what we have been discussing when this news hit the paper...and forum discussion. Seems as if he wants no more than to come on here and defend his friend, when he has nothing to defend. This thread is about ORRVILLE BASKETBALL, not Mr. Short and he is no longer affiliated with the program other than being a father of a son in the program....so Series62....if its not about this CURRENT program and you have nothing positive to say...do us a favor and ZIP IT!!!!!

  I believe previous conversations by me were about the current team well before that article. Any "defense" of Mr. Short, friend or not, came about because of the lies and exaggerations posted by others. I don't do favors and I won't "zip it"! If you don't like what I say, then don't respond!
• RedRider1

  

  Series62 wrote: I believe previous conversations by me were about the current team well before that article.

  Yes they were....
  
  So what's everyone's honest opinion....do we have to win districts to call this a successful season? In the past, that's been my thought...and I guess it's the same this year.
• Series62

  RedRider1 wrote: So what's everyone's honest opinion....do we have to win districts to call this a successful season? In the past, that's been my thought...and I guess it's the same this year.

  I see Orrville doing better due to the change in divisions as Orrville is "supposedly" better then the WCAL teams. Triway and Northwestern always play Orrville tough. Orrville is basically the same team. The talent level lost to graduation was more or less replaced by those that played this year that didn't play last year.
  
  As stated before by others, Orrville is only going to go as far as their bench will allow; the bench is not very deep.
  
  Therefore, if they go one and done, or not win districts, will you then begin calling for Coach Slaughter's replacement?
• RedRider1

  

  You just can't help yourself can you?
  
  Short got 7 years....and until he lost that district final to Triway, he had my support. After that it was clear he was not an X's and O's coach that was capable of winning the big one....and that was proven several times over after 2005.
  
  I will disagree that we're the same team from last year. Jake is better and Wasson is clearly better than last year. He averaged 14 ppg last year and is around 19ppg now.
  
  Kids like Groves, Pirman, Miller and Ingram are going to be key. They all need to play effective minutes and score when teams isolate Wasson and Bolyard on defense....make teams pay for double teams.
  
  And...will i call for Sly's resignation (or maybe you mean "constructive discharge") if we dont make it out of districts....no way. After 1 year? Would you?
  
  If we win our first game....just the first one......Sly will have one more sectional title than his predecessor had in his final 4 seasons as Orrville coach.
  
  The bar couldn't be set any lower......but we have the talent to make regionals.
• lvhoops

  One of the big differences I see this year compared to the last 2 is at the end of the year guys are still playing their hardest instead of mailing it in due to a me-me attutude and constant harrassment from the coach. I see guys like Corbett and Brenner coming in the game when Jake and Zach are saddled with foul trouble ,flying around the court and giving it everything they have. I think this team likes and respects their Coach which just hasn't been the case in the past. Its this type of little things that may allow them to get over the hump and come out of districts.
• Series62

  Old Rider wrote: Smitty used to hate the seeding. He just wanted to play. If Orrville wants to win a district title, then they will have to beat a Triway or Smithville or some sleeper team. Seeds mean nothing IMO. Shrug this loss and move on. Orrville still has a rough schedule ahead of them and should be a good prep for the tourney.
  Teams are gonna do their best to shut Jake and Zack down, unfortunately for us, thats where the scoring stops. We are very limited to who can shoot a consistent jumper and our guard play is so-so outside of Jake.
  I hate to be negative, but I have yet to see a district championship team take the floor this year. We are too inconsistent and have only 2 guys that score and when they don't .....we lose!

  ^^Basically, I reiterated this statement which didn't seem to upset anyone.
  
  And my comment about calling for Sly's resignation was rather sarcastic based upon your statement.
  "do we have to win districts to call this a successful season? In the past, that's been my thought...and I guess it's the same this year."
• Series62

  lvhoops wrote: One of the big differences I see this year compared to the last 2 is at the end of the year guys are still playing their hardest instead of mailing it in due to a me-me attutude and constant harrassment from the coach. I see guys like Corbett and Brenner coming in the game when Jake and Zach are saddled with foul trouble ,flying around the court and giving it everything they have. I think this team likes and respects their Coach which just hasn't been the case in the past. Its this type of little things that may allow them to get over the hump and come out of districts.

  "Constant Harassment" or attempting to motivate them to play harder. If they didn't like the coach they should have quit the team. If they were "mailing it in", they should have been too ashamed to suit up, as they only made themselves look bad. If anything, they should have played hard despite what they thought about the coach.
  
  Would they work to get F's if they don't like some of their teacher's too!
• lvhoops

  In my limited experence I have found that people who like and or respect their boss , coach or whoevers in charge and feel that he is a competent leader will work a little harder and go the extra mile. If they dont feel that way they will do what they have to and not give any extra effort. Its just human nature.I am pretty sure Big P would be the exception though
• thePITman

  

  RedRider1 wrote:The bar couldn't be set any lower......but we have the talent to make regionals.

  I was talking to a Youngstown basketball fan on the phone last night who was asking about our area. (I've never met this guy.) I told him to watch out for Orrville, and that I thought you guys could make some serious noise in regionals.
• RedRider1

  

  It's one of those years that if we get over the hump in distrcits we could be a dangerous team in Canton....but the regional semi would be against the Cleve. region....probably CCC or St. Joes.
  
  I think we could beat a Newton Falls or Campbell or East Canton, but that wouldnt be until the reg. finals.
  
  Regardless...gotta get there first.
• Series62

  lvhoops wrote: In my limited experence I have found that people who like and or respect their boss , coach or whoevers in charge and feel that he is a competent leader will work a little harder and go the extra mile. If they dont feel that way they will do what they have to and not give any extra effort. Its just human nature.I am pretty sure Big P would be the exception though

  That must be what you teach your children, in your "limited experience".
  
  As a parent, employee and former student, I realized and have taught my children that the teacher/coach/professor, and/or your employer has obviously achieved to some degree or fully, their goal. As a high school student/athlete, especially one seeking to further their academics/athletics with a scholarship to college, you're in high school for 4 years and then you must move on. Your primary purpose at school is for an education, not to like the teacher/coach. It's fine if you do!
  
  You carry that sub-par performance "because I don't like nor respect you" into the real world and see how quick you'll realize he didn't care when they escort you out!
  
  I and they know to go that extra mile because it will ultimately be to their benefit in the end.
• OrrPride

  wha wha wa...wha wha..wa wa.................and your point is?????
• Series62

  OrrPride wrote: wha wha wa...wha wha..wa wa.................and your point is?????

  The point is...if you hire some of these former red riders to sell real estate, if their skills are average and you attempt to push them to work harder, they will develop a dislike and/or disrespect for you, they will tell their parents and won't work that hard to be productive and sell properties. They will however expect you to continue to employ and pay them also and give them good references should they move on while hoping that your business fails.
  
  Per lvhoops of course. LOL!!!
• riders1

  

  Series62 wrote:

  OrrPride wrote: wha wha wa...wha wha..wa wa.................and your point is?????

  The point is...if you hire some of these former red riders to sell real estate, if their skills are average and you attempt to push them to work harder, they will develop a dislike and/or disrespect for you, they will tell their parents and won't work that hard to be productive and sell properties. They will however expect you to continue to employ and pay them also and give them good references should they move on while hoping that your business fails.
  
  Per lvhoops of course. LOL!!!

  And so it is with teenagers all over, some coaches can coach and some just sit and blame the kids because they can't coach kids!
• Series62

  It's very difficult to coach any young athlete if their parents along with some in the community aren't supporting you and degrading you simultaneously. Who do YOU think the kids are going to listen to?
• riders1

  

  Series62 wrote: It's very difficult to coach any young athlete if their parents along with some in the community aren't supporting you and degrading you simultaneously. Who do YOU think the kids are going to listen to?

  Hopefully not you.
• RedRider1

  

  Come on guys...we had the 2nd coming of John Wooden.
  
  He was faultless...just ask him.
  
  Can't believe Big(Series62)P compared Smitty's first few years to Shorts.
  
  Smith (1977-78 season through 1981-82)
  96 wins, 23 losses (all 5 seasons had 18 wins or more)
  2 regional appearances, 1 final 4 appearance
  14-5 tourney record
  
  Short (2002-03 through 2006-07 season)
  75 wins, 36 losses (1 season of 18 wins or more)
  0 district titles
  3 seasons of 7 losses or more
  6-5 tourney record
  
  It's not even a discussion.....deny the truth all you want, but it doesnt stop it from being true.
• Series62

  RedRider1 wrote: Come on guys...we had the 2nd coming of John Wooden.
  
  He was faultless...just ask him.
  
  Can't believe Big(Series62)P compared Smitty's first few years to Shorts.
  
  Smith (1977-78 season through 1981-82)
  96 wins, 23 losses (all 5 seasons had 18 wins or more)
  2 regional appearances, 1 final 4 appearance
  14-5 tourney record
  
  Short (2002-03 through 2006-07 season)
  75 wins, 36 losses (1 season of 18 wins or more)
  0 district titles
  3 seasons of 7 losses or more
  6-5 tourney record
  
  It's not even a discussion.....deny the truth all you want, but it doesnt stop it from being true.

  I never said he was equal to Smith. Yet he wasn't that far off and did Short really have the same caliber of players that Smith had? From what I've read and heard from people who played for Smith, not all liked him, but he didn't have to deal with the crap from parents that Short had to. Short couldn't, "collar", punch, poke, scream, yell and curse at players without repercussion like Smith did.
  
  A few posts back you made another attempt to ridicule "park ball"! With the exception of Bolyard, most of these guys do not go to the park to play ball, so I doubt they even have any concept of what park ball is.
  
  Now go back and talk to all those guys who played on those teams, even before the likes of Sly, the Short brothers and his sons, Bolyard Sr., Ray, McDonald, Denson, Reusser, Irby, Smith, Boggs, the Craig brothers, Harris, the Baker brothers, etc, etc, who loved basketball and played for Smith and ask them what did they do at the park. I'm told that much like many of the parks in the cities, there used to always be a line to get on the court at Orr Park because you had people from the surrounding communities and even Canton coming here to get some "game". It was close to that during the first few years when I moved here.
  
  All of a sudden, now, according to you, there's nothing to learn or experience from it.
  
  Perhaps Short wasn't the best coach, perhaps he didn't have players who really "loved" basketball!
• RedRider1

  

  Series62 wrote: I never said he was equal to Smith. Yet he wasn't that far off and did Short really have the same caliber of players that Smith had?

  Of course, with overwhelming evidence, you change the question...now it's about the talent.
  

  From what I've read and heard from people who played for Smith, not all liked him, but he didn't have to deal with the crap from parents that Short had to. Short couldn't, "collar", punch, poke, scream, yell and curse at players without repercussion like Smith did.

  He won...that overshadowed plenty. And it was never personal with Smith....go back and read articles right after he passed...many players looked to him like a father-figure.
  

  A few posts back you made another attempt to ridicule "park ball"! With the exception of Bolyard, most of these guys do not go to the park to play ball, so I doubt they even have any concept of what park ball is.

  No...they get an alum from Triway to help them on their game, because the former coach did not work with this player at all to improve his game.
  

  Now go back and talk to all those guys who played on those teams, even before the likes of Sly, the Short brothers and his sons, Bolyard Sr., Ray, McDonald, Denson, Reusser, Irby, Smith, Boggs, the Craig brothers, Harris, the Baker brothers, etc, etc, who loved basketball and played for Smith and ask them what did they do at the park. I'm told that much like many of the parks in the cities, there used to always be a line to get on the court at Orr Park because you had people from the surrounding communities and even Canton coming here to get some "game". It was close to that during the first few years when I moved here.

  I like that you added the Craig brothers. Nice personal touch.
  
  Let's be honest...AAU ball and organized summer leagues have replaced the park. Any parent wanting their kid to improve and get college looks puts them in a real summer league. Dont know many college scouts that comb the concrete courts looking for hidden gems.....maybe at Rucker, but not in Orrville.
  
  In the end....your point is that kids should improve on their own...Coach is just there to supervise and keep a seat warm, right? Short got a raw deal because kids didn't love basketball.
  
  Was that part of his constructive discharge?
• Series62

  ^^So when you refer to "park ball", it's your way of saying, they began playing what they learned from "AAU/summer league" ball, not what the coach taught them.
  
  The last playoff game was indicative more of the character possessed of some of the players than the coaches knowledge of the game, whether they liked him or not.
  
  Was that part of the "constructive discharge"? Ask yourself that question.