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Is being GAY a choice or are you born that way?

  • jmog
    pnhasbeen wrote:

    so you're telling me that today in our age of society with all the advancements in technology that they never even came close to, they were able to live in a whale for 3 days as well as have people be well over 150 years old?, but we can't?

    makes sense fo sho
    There are very viable possible scientific answers as to why people could live that old back then, the same answers also explain dinosaurs size and extinction.

    Basically if you study your Bible history you'd notice that after the flood people didn't live that long anymore.
  • jmog
    O-Trap wrote:

    Series 62, Christians are COMMANDED (not "encouraged" or "prodded") to "speak the truth IN LOVE," or am I reading Ephesians 4:15 incorrectly?
    Exactly!

    I'm not saying my belief on homosexuality is different than series, but his way of going about it is way wrong.
  • dwccrew
    Bio-Hazzzzard wrote: Many people's beliefs are obviously different. I am a christian and I believe everyone has a right to believe what they want, I respect the bible and others don't. I don't agree with anything other than christianity , however it is my duty as a christian to except anyone as they are whether I agree or not and likewise they don't have to agree with me but accept me for who I am.
    Some don't believe in god or they claim the bible is fiction, SO WHAT, that is their perogative. I don't agree with alot that has been discussed on this thread and I don't have to, and others don't have to agree with my beliefs either. It doesn't matter what others think about your beliefs, what matters is what you believe in yourself, whether each side of the sword agrees with one another or not.

    Fairwoodking you have the right to be queer and I have the right to my bible, I am at peace with what I believe in and if you believe what your doing is right more power to you because you have that right, but I don't have to agree and you don't have to agree with me either.
    Good post.
    jmog wrote:
    pnhasbeen wrote:

    so you're telling me that today in our age of society with all the advancements in technology that they never even came close to, they were able to live in a whale for 3 days as well as have people be well over 150 years old?, but we can't?

    makes sense fo sho
    There are very viable possible scientific answers as to why people could live that old back then, the same answers also explain dinosaurs size and extinction.

    Basically if you study your Bible history you'd notice that after the flood people didn't live that long anymore.

    I think the concept of time may have been different then. Maybe a month was considered a year? Someone 900 years old would be 75 years by today's concept of time.
  • dwccrew
    WeAreNC wrote: So what is the politically correct term when addressing gays now? I have heard some of the follwing. I dont' want to offend anyone. THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK ON ANYONE.

    EDITED by SEJ due to numerous offensive terms.
    Oh I see what you've done there. You are so clever. Posting insults and saying "I'm not attacking anyone."
  • Big_Mirg_ZHS
    If you have to prefix you post with I dont want to offend anyone you would be better off not posting. Kinda like when i have a friend who says i dont want to sound racist or nothing

    or <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
  • sej
    I apologize. I deleted WeAreNC's post instead of editing it. I have left it in the quoted post above, minus the extensive, and oddly enough, aphabetical list of derogatory terminology he's "heard".
  • Big_Mirg_ZHS
    sej wrote: I apologize. I deleted WeAreNC's post instead of editing it. I have left it in the quoted post above, minus the extensive, and oddly enough, aphabetical list of derogatory terminology he's "heard".
    Glad i wasnt the only one who noticed it was alphabetical lol.
  • Mr Pat
    GoPens wrote:
    Mr Pat wrote: Try it and let us know GoPens.
    I already know the results. You guys are the ones who raise the possibility, so give it a go believer.
    Please show me where I raised any possibility. Please don't put words in my mouth, thank you!
    FairwoodKing wrote: Series 62-- You're an idiot! You believe in mythology and ancient superstition and I believe in science and reason, yet I'm supposed to respect your beliefs but you're not supposed to respect mine? That's bullshit. You're just a typical Christian asshole with your head up your butt.
    Easy now, I'm a Christian and I haven't attacked you.
  • Mr Pat
    WeAreNC, I'm pretty sure the politcally correct term is homosexual.
  • Heretic
    Being that this has turned into, at least partially, a religiously oriented thread (with the occasional "let's be offensive towards people" post thrown in for the hell of it), I feel compelled to mention a few truths.

    1. Different people have different beliefs. Whether you follow this religion, that religion or no religion...that's cool. I'm non-religious, but have no problems with people who are...as long as they're the same way towards me. I believe there's a higher power that at least set the stepping stones for creation, but it's not a part of our current existence. I believe that all religions are man-made attempts to explain things using a combination of real events and fiction (ie: the blatant "gods caused this" parts).

    2. Am I right? I don't know. Are you right in saying I'm wrong/ignorant because the Christian deity is the reality? You don't know. I have faith that I'm right; you have faith that you're right. That is all. In my opinion from using the perspective I have from observing what goes on in the world I live in (speaking globally, not just my own existence), there's little rhyme or reason to anything going on. If a god is behind things, he must be (AD&D geek-talk here) chaotic evil, since no matter the issue, it tends to wind up in conflict.

    Things just wind up getting stupid. Heaven, Hell, Elysian Fields, Valhalla, Reincarnation into a New Life, Sweet Nothingness...whatever you call your afterlife...you have nothing to prove it exists other than that you think so. Quoting lines from a one particular book doesn't mean anything more than someone else quoting from another one as far as proving a point.
  • jmog
    dwccrew wrote:



    I think the concept of time may have been different then. Maybe a month was considered a year? Someone 900 years old would be 75 years by today's concept of time.
    They definitely used different calenders (as in our April didn't exist) but people back in that time fully understood seasons and years as most of them had to be farmers (no local supermarket).

    So I don't buy that they didn't use the same year scale that we do.
  • tbdbitl_osu
    Sign up for Bible Study this weekend.....

    Brought to you by Freehuddle.com.
  • Series62
    jmog wrote:
    O-Trap wrote:

    Series 62, Christians are COMMANDED (not "encouraged" or "prodded") to "speak the truth IN LOVE," or am I reading Ephesians 4:15 incorrectly?
    Exactly!

    I'm not saying my belief on homosexuality is different than series, but his way of going about it is way wrong.
    Why would my way of saying homosexuality is wrong because I used the Word of God as the foundation for my discussion?

    I spoke the truth and in love I told the truth. The truth being, homosexuality is a choice men make, it is a sin against God and it is wrong! Just as is muder, lying, stealing, etc.

    Sometimes the truth hurts and when people can't bear the truth, they tend to get angry and attack the bearer of the truth. Did I attack anyone, NO!

    jmog, however you tell fairwood and whoever else here and elsewhere that is homosexuality is a sin and are wrong, just tell it straight, don't be ashamed to stand for God!

    Those who don't believe, know, nor have a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus are going to laugh to mock, scorn, ridicule, insult, shout profanities, degrade and attempt to discourage you in your walk with God and depend on themselves.

    Men have been trying through the ages prove/disprove God! The proof is in His word, but they have, are and will continue to miss it.

    The Christian life is a walk of trust and faith in the Lord, therein I do walk!
  • GoPens
    Those who don't believe, know, nor have a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus are going to laugh to mock, scorn, ridicule, insult, shout profanities, degrade and attempt to discourage you in your walk with God and depend on themselves
    .

    Wrong. I have a relationship with Jesus and I'm going to do all of the above regarding your posts. I'm sure you'll think that your relationship with Jesus is better than mine or more correct, but it's people like you that do more damage to Christianity than any atheist could.
  • O-Trap
    Series62 wrote: Why would my way of saying homosexuality is wrong because I used the Word of God as the foundation for my discussion?
    I certainly don't think that is why. I think the lack of compassion in your delivery would be a more likely candidate.
    Series62 wrote:I spoke the truth and in love I told the truth.
    Could've fooled me.
    Series62 wrote:The truth being, homosexuality is a choice men make, it is a sin against God and it is wrong! Just as is muder, lying, stealing, etc.
    Let is probe (pardon the pun) this a bit, shall we?

    What is homosexuality? It is a desire. It is something which exists within the heart of some. Ultimately, I would contend (and the silence on it from Scripture will back me up) that the desire for a man by a man is no more or less sinful than the desire of a woman by a man.

    I don't mean lust, necessarily. I simply mean a desire for that relationship. As a single college student, I longed for a relationship with a woman. Was that desire sinful? After all, I was not married at the time.

    The Bible does say that homosexual ACTIONS are immoral, but it does NOT EVER ... EVER ... say that a person who has feelings of homosexuality is in sin.

    Moreover, the Bible says NOTHING regarding actions of homosexuality being on any sort of pedistal in regards to severity. I would contend that, given God's love for his creation, he would consider other wrongdoings to be FAR more aggregious. I do not state this as fact, because God has not stated it explicitly in his Word. However, based on the character he shows, I would be willing to bet that it is true.
    Series62 wrote:Sometimes the truth hurts and when people can't bear the truth, they tend to get angry and attack the bearer of the truth. Did I attack anyone, NO!
    Incorrect, as I will show below.
    Series62 wrote:jmog, however you tell fairwood and whoever else here and elsewhere that is homosexuality is a sin and are wrong, just tell it straight, don't be ashamed to stand for God!
    There is a difference between being ashamed and having words "seasoned with salt." Essentially, if you have the choice to either not speak or to speak without love, choose the former. If I err on the side of mercy, it is far better than if I err on the side of judgment.
    Series62 wrote:Those who don't believe, know, nor have a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus are going to laugh to mock, scorn, ridicule, insult, shout profanities, degrade and attempt to discourage you in your walk with God and depend on themselves.
    You forgot one thing: hopefull be brought into communion with God. You're treating a walk with God as an "us vs. them" game. It isn't. Our job is not to beat others over the head with the gospel and then say, "Don't worry, you'll see," when they object to it. Our job is to WIN them. Such an attitude will NOT be a winning one.

    My mentor, Dr. David Plaster, taught me that ... as he was the one who brought me into a true relationship with my Creator.
    Series62 wrote:Men have been trying through the ages prove/disprove God! The proof is in His word, but they have, are and will continue to miss it.
    People throughout history have accepted different levels of "proof." Moreover, they have considered different prerequisits as being necessary for "proof." Proof is a liquid term.

    But ultimately, it doesn't matter. You're committing the fallacy that used to make my mouth water as an atheist. You're appealing to an authority that your audience doesn't accept. In other words, you're accomplishing nothing.
    Series62 wrote:The Christian life is a walk of trust and faith in the Lord, therein I do walk!
    That may be, and I'm glad, but in this thread, you're also being a stumbling block to others.
    Series62 wrote: Our judgment of one another is wrong in the eyes of God should we make that judgment based on our opinion without any factual/physical evidence. Proper judgment of any one or any thing is made by the "fruit" borne by that person/thing.
    This is how one may judge something for his or her own self. It is NOT a pass for us to act like the judiciaries of humanity, REGARDLESS of whether or not we are right.
    Series62 wrote:As for the question at hand, we are born either male or female ...
    Ever heard of a hermaphrodite? A chimera?
    Series62 wrote:... of the singular or combined race/creed of our parents.
    Corny or not, there is one race: human.

    a
    Series62 wrote:Homosexuality, as is all sin, a choice made by man.
    As I pointed out before, homosexuality (the desire for one of the same gender) is NOT a sin, and thus, is not necessarily a choice.
    Series62 wrote:Attempts are made to say that it is part of our genes/DNA and then to attach some scientific credibility to that lie. Some will continue to attempt to hide behind that lie and the unGodly will certainly dismiss it.
    Do you talk like this in real life? I'm just curious if you constantly use the term "wont" and such. It's very odd ... like you flip a switch and talk differently when speaking about the Bible. Either way, this is NOT spoken in love.
    Series62 wrote:Be that as it may, a time will come when you will definitely be made aware of the truth of God. It'll be too late and you won't be able to question His judgment!
    Not loving.
    Series62 wrote:You don't think it's a sin!?

    Do catholics read the Bible at all or do they just let the priest to read and interpret it to them?
    Not loving.
    Series62 wrote: Well, I know Karma's not going to do any thing for you!

    You'll see!
    Not loving.
    Series62 wrote: He made the statement that his life is not influenced by God's Word, which is to say his life is not influenced by God. Thereby, he does not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. It's not a self-righteous judgment at all, it is a statement of truth based upon his own words.

    Jesus will do the judging and He does not judge by your Karma.
    Actually, God the Father will be sitting on the White Throne of Judgment (read Revelation and see for yourself).

    The key to the Trinity is that the persons are still distinct, so show their distinctions the proper respect.

    Oh ... and still not loving.
    Series62 wrote: That 2,000 year old book, The Holy Bible, is God's word, and to denounce His word is to denounce Him. You put the words in your own mouth. The Buddhists/Hinduists used God's words to define Karma.
    And by the way, Jesus, is God!
    Bible is MUCH older than 2000 years, bub. Unless you're talking about when it was canonized, in which case it isn't even 2000 years old yet.
    Series62 wrote: NO!, I do however know what His word says regarding this sin and others.
    "Thou shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" Leviticus 18:22

    "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and recieving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Romans 1:26-27.

    You have to love men like you who are wont to ridicule in ignorance.
    Careful. What of the Levitical laws on woven cloth, crop-sowing, and eating of cakes with raisins in them?

    Also, FAR from loving with that final quip.
    Series62 wrote: The Bible teaches Christians to love their fellow man, but we are not to love sin. I do not love the sin that I am wont to commit. I strive not to commit sin, though at times I do, I don't however practice it as a lifestyle or life-choice.

    I know that you know homosexuality is wrong despite your attempts at justification.

    However, you will have your opportunity to tell God that He is wrong! I'm praying for you!
    Tacking on "I'm praying for you," does not make something kind or loving. In fact, based on the sentence immediately prior (saying, in a nutshell, "You'll see!"), I'd suggest this was not loving either.
    Series62 wrote: It depends on the subject of their opinion.
    Incorrect. Opinion is opinion. Why does nobody get this???

    Preferences are opinions. Any statement made about something being either true or false is a fact claim, regardless of whether or not it is entirely knowable.
    Series62 wrote:In my opinion, Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player ever. Your opinion might choose Lebron James. No matter!
    Terrible analogy.
    Series62 wrote:If in your opinion, you choose not to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior because you don't believe that He is God.......yes, your opinion is wrong!
    Saying that Jesus (is/isn't) Lord is not an opinion. It's a true/false statement. How old are you?
    Series62 wrote: Read back cbus, I simply replied to Big_Mirg_ZHS's comment in Post #84.

    Every time you speak, the descriptive attribute below your name is revealed.
    Doesn't matter. Big_MIRG was incorrect, but you didn't notice, and you called the Book 2000 years old.

    Also, that last sentence was CERTAINLY not loving.
    Series62 wrote: Living by the Bible teaches me what is natural and what is right!
    Incorrect.

    In fact, the opposite of the point you're trying to make is true.

    The Bible DOES NOT speak of what is and is not against natural law. As you would agree, nature is corrupt. Thus, nature itself goes against what is good.

    Meaning it could be COMPLETELY natural for a man to lie with a man, and whether or not it is natural has nothing to do with whether or not it is right or wrong.
    Series62 wrote:Our reproductive organs were made for human reproduction. A man's penis in another man's anus won't reproduce anything but a mess.
    Inaccurate for a PLETHORA of reasons.

    A) The Bible never says that is the exclusive function of the organs.

    B) That opens a Pandora's Box in regard to aged couples or sterile couples. They are no more capable of bearing children than a gay couple.

    C) God made it pleasurable for a reason.

    D) If you've never had hetero sex, you wouldn't know this, but it probably makes as much of, if not more of, a mess.
    Series62 wrote:And much to your dismay, God is not dead, He's still alive!!!
    Why would this automatically dismay him?
    Series62 wrote: We could go on with this discussion infinitely. I'll live and conduct my life because I know that God does exist and my life will be lived according to His word with all my ability.
    Then season your words, and speak the truth in love. Be teachable.
    Series62 wrote:My choice to change from living a sinful life to one led by God was a result of me making the decision to accept Him as Lord and Savior and Him abiding with me to accomplish His will for my life.
    How often do you use the word "abide" in regular conversation? Following God doesn't mean you need to speak 1611 English while you speak about him.
    Series62 wrote:As for the homosexual question, it is a choice made by man, much like the choice of whether to be a carpenter, doctor, welder or engineer.
    Dear Moses, you're not serious!!!
    Series62 wrote: The scriptures given are also from the King James Version
    So? What on earth might be the point of saying this?
    Series62 wrote: You should have saved yourself some embarrassment and just remained quiet. What is the quote;
    "It is better to remain silent and be thought the fool then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
    VERY unloving.
    Series62 wrote: gblock;

    Expressing my belief and acceptance of Jesus the Christ does not make me a fanatic nor does it make me look like one. It is always an attempt by non-believers to portray Christians as fanatics, lunatics and cowards. That is not so and I will never be afraid to stand for my God.

    It was never my intent to prove anything as God's word can and will stand on it's own.

    On the other hand, you did prove yourself to be ignorant, and how much more so if it did not embarrass you!
    Ibid.
    Series62 wrote: I did not say anything regarding the sexual intercourse between a married man and his wife. The Bible says this;
    "Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge." Hebrews 13:4
    That is to say, what a man and his wife do in their bed is between them.
    But you'd JUST said that God's showing of homosexuality was that "butt-lovin'" couldn't "reproduce anything but a mess."

    If that's the case, then the same would apply between married couples.

    Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
    Series62 wrote: The pope is a man and he is not holy in the manner of which you suggest. That is why he can't perform miracles, he's not Jesus.
    Hold the phone ... Peter DID perform miracles, did he not? He wasn't Jesus.

    He WAS, on the other hand, the first pope.
    Series62 wrote:Again, I've not put anyone down. If you are wrong and your conversation is wrong, then, you are wrong!!
    Spoken as lovingly as ever.
    Series62 wrote:If only you knew anything of which you speak about! If you are an atheist, a non-believer, you hate God and don't know much about Him, you would do yourself a favor to and remain silent. That conversation you just had is akin to "Talkin' loud, ain't saying nothing!"
    More love I see.
    Series62 wrote: Hey Al,

    Don't you like talking about Jesus?

    That "hershey-highway" business is nasty!
    Yeah, THAT sounded loving.

    You have not spoken the truth in love on this thread. One of the things that Jesus seemed to always have when speaking to nonbelievers was compassion ... understanding. He spoke the truth them gently. Not timidly, but gently. One can be bold and still be gentle. Jesus is evidence of that.

    The ONLY people with whom he was ever harsh were the religious oppressors, interestingly.

    Take note. We are to find common ground with all, so that we may love them unconditionally (or as close as we can come to it), and so that others might see how we live and find a relationship with God through us. Or, as Paul put it, "I become all things to all men, that through me some of them might be saved."

    Jesus told his disciples that the world would know them by THEIR LOVE for one another.

    What I've read on this topic is not love. Not at all.
  • BigAppleBuckeye
    Series62 wrote:
    Writerbuckeye wrote: Gotta love religious folks who absolutely, positively, without question KNOW how God thinks and feels.

    Amazing.
    NO!, I do however know what His word says regarding this sin and others.
    "Thou shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" Leviticus 18:22

    "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and recieving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Romans 1:26-27.

    You have to love men like you who are wont to ridicule in ignorance.
    This always makes me shake my head ... a significant percentage of this world isn't Christian! I respect your beliefs, but citing biblical passages holds no weight here. Use logic, not blind faith. Believe what you will, but for the purposes of this debate, use your mind.
  • Heretic
    This might not be your longest ever "break down what one or more people said" threads, Otrap, but it has to be a FreeHuddle record!

    And does a great job of comparing/contrasting two different types of religious people.

    The intelligent, reasoned sort who is always entertaining (and often) educational to debate VERSUS the "I know my Bible and pick and choose verses that suit my argument and am better than you because I believe!" sort who I tend to just feel disdain for due to the rigid inflexibility of their position combined with an inability to come up with anything better than "it's in the Bible, that's why!" arguments when questioned.
  • O-Trap
    The ones nhsbuckeye and I used to go back and forth on were epic, and almost ALL of them were like that.
  • Upper90
    O-Trap, that was a fantastic post, I always enjoy reading what you've got to say. I especially enjoyed:

    "You're treating a walk with God as an "us vs. them" game. It isn't. Our job is not to beat others over the head with the gospel and then say, "Don't worry, you'll see," when they object to it. Our job is to WIN them. Such an attitude will NOT be a winning one."

    Very true.
  • Devils Advocate
    Otrap and B A B :)



  • O-Trap
    Guys, I also don't want this to be an "everyone vs. Series62" thread. In that I DO share his faith, I consider him a brother.

    I just hate to see when someone's zeal (which itself is not a bad thing) causes them to put others off, and alienate those of us who share faith.

    I suppose some of my post was strong-handed. I don't want it to need to be that way. It just just seemed like it did.
  • Devils Advocate
    It is funny that when someone thinks that they have the high ground, that they end up taking the low road
  • FairwoodKing
    What I find amusing about this thread is that it consists of a bunch of straight people trying to figure out whether we gay people choose our lifestyle or if we were born this way. You would be better off asking people like me.

    I tried to be straight but found out I couldn't do it. I wasted my youth trying to pass for a straight person. The only two choices I made were to accept who I am and then to do something about it. My only regret is that I didn't make those choices sooner.
  • Devils Advocate
    I don't have a problem with your orientation... It's just the Big Red/UD thing you have going :)

    JK..... There was some great discusion until religion hijacked the thread .
  • Upper90
    Well, I think the problem lies in that you'll get gay people, or at least I have gotten gay people, that will give both answers. It's not a clear cut thing.

    Which is why, to me, (and I know I've stated this point like 2 times prior on this thread, sorry)....it just doesn't matter. I just can't figure out why it matters WHY someone is gay. They are. And from there, you decide to treat them however you choose to treat them.

    I feel as though even if it were 100% proven tomorrow that this was something that was there at birth, would the amount of people who are homophobic change? maybe by a few percent, if that. JMO.