Breaking down Bernie's plan

• Classyposter58

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778968 wrote:Someone needs to inform Classy that tax inversions have been going on for decades and there's ways the government can attack them and already have been by classifying where the income is still generated. So in other words... Not a big issue.

  Must not read the journal then. It's a serious issue
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
• gut

  QuakerOats;1778975 wrote:I think we want total corporate tax reform so that inversions become a thing of the past. Frankly, I'm not sure why we tax them at all; imagine the economic growth and wage growth we could unleash. Well, maybe you can't imagine that.

  I'd like to see double taxation eliminated and lower rates where jobs and economic growth are created. You can't just have a 0 corporate rate, because cash can sit parked there for a long time. But, in theory, all corporate profits are eventually taxed (a second time) when distributed to the shareholders.
  
  That's the tricky part with companies hoarding cash, but lower corp rates and make revenue neutral raising cap gains. Raise cap gains less by offsetting with higher personal income taxes.
  
  Some of our best performing companies ARE sensitive to uncompetitively high marginal rates. Liberals can claim that not to be true, but the rising number of inversions, incorporations overseas and non-repatriated earnings are proof.
  
  The shocking thing is only 11% of revenues come from corporate taxes. No, we really don't need a bigger chunk of flesh from companies....we need more companies.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  Classyposter58;1778976 wrote:Must not read the journal then. It's a serious issue
  
  
  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  Oh did the Journal tell you that? Good to know.
• sleeper

  

  gut;1778978 wrote:I'd like to see double taxation eliminated and lower rates where jobs and economic growth are created. You can't just have a 0 corporate rate, because cash can sit parked there for a long time. But, in theory, all corporate profits are eventually taxed (a second time) when distributed to the shareholders.
  
  That's the tricky part with companies hoarding cash, but lower corp rates and make revenue neutral raising cap gains. Raise cap gains less by offsetting with higher personal income taxes.
  
  Some of our best performing companies ARE sensitive to uncompetitively high marginal rates. Liberals can claim that not to be true, but the rising number of inversions, incorporations overseas and non-repatriated earnings are proof.
  
  The shocking thing is only 11% of revenues come from corporate taxes. No, we really don't need a bigger chunk of flesh from companies....we need more companies.

  I'd be happy if they just lowered the corporate tax rate to 20 or 25% to be competitive with the rest of the world.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  sleeper;1779047 wrote:I'd be happy if they just lowered the corporate tax rate to 20 or 25% to be competitive with the rest of the world.

  How many corporations even play anywhere close to 20-25% right now?
  
  The effective tax rate for most corporations is 12.5%
• gut

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779077 wrote: The effective tax rate for most corporations is 12.5%

  More like 22%...and that doesn't mean marginal rates don't matter - it's a bigger issue for more profitable companies, companies that are presumably growing and adding jobs. If you are more concerned about taxing the slow-growth dogs more, then by all means go after killing what few jobs they're creating. The average effective rate is not out of line, but that's an average and for companies paying higher marginal rates it's an issue.
  
  Lots of problems with the study at 12.5% you're citing, namely it's a year with a lot of NOL carry-forwards from the recession, and then they exclude unprofitable companies without excluding NOL's.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779077 wrote:How many corporations even play anywhere close to 20-25% right now?
  
  The effective tax rate for most corporations is 12.5%

  You can thank the government you want more of for that. They created a swiss cheese tax code and somehow you think the government running everything will solve all of our problems.
  
  LOL
• sleeper

  

  gut;1779081 wrote:More like 22%...and that doesn't mean marginal rates don't matter - it's a bigger issue for more profitable companies, companies that are presumably growing and adding jobs. If you are more concerned about taxing the slow-growth dogs more, then by all means go after killing what few jobs they're creating. The average effective rate is not out of line, but that's an average and for companies paying higher marginal rates it's an issue.
  
  Lots of problems with the study at 12.5% you're citing, namely it's a year with a lot of NOL carry-forwards from the recession, and then they exclude unprofitable companies without excluding NOL's.

  Conveniently leaving out the majority of small businesses who no doubt pay very close to 39% of w/e it is now. That's the real issue not the mega corporations.
• gut

  sleeper;1779091 wrote:Conveniently leaving out the majority of small businesses who no doubt pay very close to 39% of w/e it is now. That's the real issue not the mega corporations.

  Last PWC analysis I saw was 27%, including state and local taxes....about the highest in the OECD. Of course, the left wing propaganda keeps trying to convince everyone that GE paying 2% one year is the norm.
• dwccrew

  

  I can't support Bernie Sanders just because I don't believe his plans are built solidly on any kind of real logic. I do believe he is genuine and the he believes his ideas can help the country, but in reality and to a rational thinking person, how can you believe that providing free college education, single payer healthcare, etc. are not going to be impossible fantasies to implement. In a perfect world would it be nice? Of course, but we don't live in that world, we live in this one.
  
  Promise of free this and free that, to me, sounds like a bad salesman making his desperate pitch to get me to buy. I've been on his website and I see no real way for him to actually fund anything he says he can. Like every single politician he just speaks in talking points and offers no real solutions.
  
  I doubt I'll even vote for any candidate for president. I may skip that one and vote on everything else because I can't in good conscience vote for any of these clowns in this circus.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  I think most people are in agreement about tax reform being needed. It disproportionately hurts the middle class and small businesses. Why doesn't it happen.. b/c people with money don't want it to happen and they have the lobbyists.
• Spock

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779099 wrote:I think most people are in agreement about tax reform being needed. It disproportionately hurts the middle class and small businesses. Why doesn't it happen.. b/c people with money don't want it to happen and they have the lobbyists.

  and that is why you vote for trump......cant be bought
• FatHobbit

  

  Spock;1779100 wrote:and that is why you vote for trump......cant be bought

  What if he is just trying to tap into a giant source of income? He is rich, but it's not beyond belief that he sees how much money politicians make and thinks "hey, I'd like a piece of that"
• dwccrew

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779099 wrote:I think most people are in agreement about tax reform being needed. It disproportionately hurts the middle class and small businesses. Why doesn't it happen.. b/c people with money don't want it to happen and they have the lobbyists.

  I couldn't agree any more with you. The tax code in the U.S. is a joke and needs thrown out and completely re-done.
• gut

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779099 wrote:It disproportionately hurts the middle class and small businesses. Why doesn't it happen.. b/c people with money don't want it to happen and they have the lobbyists.

  It happens because of too much govt waste and too much govt spending - the middle class and small businesses are where the money is. People really need to drop this illusion that we just need to tax the rich and big corporations a little more to solve our problems.
  
  "Fairness" is only fair, but it won't put any more money in your pocket or mine.
• QuakerOats

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779099 wrote:I think most people are in agreement about tax reform being needed. It disproportionately hurts the middle class and small businesses. Why doesn't it happen.. b/c people with money don't want it to happen and they have the lobbyists.

  
  Actually it is the upper income levels that are disproportionately hit with taxes; the top 10% pay the vast lion's share of taxes. Many under $40k do not pay federal income tax at all; not even a meager $100 to cover a token share of national defense. Everyone needs to have some skin in the game for fairness.
• HitsRus

  

  . It disproportionately hurts the UPPER middle class and small businesses. Why doesn't it happen....

  Fixed it for you.....and the reason is because this is where the revenue can be had....in the great middle class. You can tax the rich a disproportionate amount which might be symbolic, but it still won't make a difference. You can't tax the poor or the lower middle class. So the people in between are where almost all tax money comes from...especially the upper middle class and small business which are one and the same. At least Bernie Sanders is fairly honest about this....he wants to raise taxes on everyone to pay for his socialist utopia...even the lowest wage earners will be hit with 33% increase!
  
  Please...whenever you talk raising taxes...be honest. The middle class will be the ones who get soaked.
• QuakerOats

  OU professor: Youths' attraction to Sanders shows education failure
  
  By David Deming Published: January 30, 2016
  
  It's disheartening that an avowed socialist is a viable candidate for president of the United States. Socialism is a dead end. For hundreds of years, it has failed everywhere it's been adopted. The enthusiasm of our youth for the candidacy of Bernie Sanders is a symptom of our failure to educate them, not only in history, government and economics, but also basic morality.
  
  You don't have to be a student of ancient history to know socialism doesn't work. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989 was an unequivocal demonstration of the moral and economic superiority of capitalism. The misery caused by socialism is unfolding today in Venezuela. Since Venezuela embraced socialism in 1999, poverty, crime and corruption have all increased. Grocery shelves are empty and the annual inflation rate is estimated to be as high as 200 percent.
  
  The United States is a constitutional republic founded on political equality, not equality of income or circumstances. Our system of government was designed to secure the natural rights of its citizens. These rights include not only “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” but the right to acquire and maintain private property. The Founding Fathers considered property rights to be sacred and paramount.
  
  Under capitalism, goods and services are distributed through private, voluntary exchanges. When people engage in volitional transactions, everyone benefits. If we believe a transaction is in our best interest, we have an incentive to maintain good relations with those with whom we're trading. Thus a society based on freedom and trading promotes good will and civility. Our free-market system has produced the greatest prosperity in human history.
  
  There are no property rights under socialism. Goods and services are distributed by force through political means. Everything you possess is subject to confiscation and redistribution. Industrious and productive people are punished; parasites are rewarded. When people come to believe they have a right to goods and services produced by other people, society disintegrates into squabbling factions. If socialism is allowed to progress to its logical extreme, it culminates in a military dictatorship like North Korea.
  
  What about so-called “crony capitalism”? This is nothing more than socialism that benefits the wealthy and influential. It's just as wrong as any other form of socialism. The cure is to limit government power. Human nature is corruptible. If government has the power to redistribute wealth, it will always act in the interests of the powerful segments of society. What made America great is not progressive government, but the genius and industry of a people freed from arbitrary power by the chains placed upon government by our Constitution.
  
  Socialism isn't so much a legitimate economic system as it is a moral failing. It will always exist because ignorant people will always want something for nothing. If we want to retain our freedom and prosperity, then we must educate our children that the purpose of government is to secure liberty, not provide free lunches.
  
  Deming ([email protected]) is a professor of arts and sciences at the University of Oklahoma.
• Spock

  

  What I just saw on CNN is just plain scares me. He is absolutely crazy.
• QuakerOats

  Ahh, come on, he is going to give you a free education, and when you graduate you will pay 70% of your income in taxes; makes perfect sense.
• Con_Alma

  As a legislator, what bills has Mr. Sanders authored that have been passed? That would be an indication to me of his ability to function well in the role his constituents elected him for as their representative.
• Spock

  

  Bernie isnt getting anything done. THe ony thing he will accomplish is to bash capitalism and make everyone hate success.
• gut

  Spock;1780310 wrote:Bernie isnt getting anything done. THe ony thing he will accomplish is to bash capitalism and make everyone hate success.

  Well, Obama promised equality by making everyone poorer...but instead he just made the rich richer.
• Spock

  

  gut;1780326 wrote:Well, Obama promised equality by making everyone poorer...but instead he just made the rich richer.

  history will write Obamas chapter and it wont be pretty
• cruiser_96

  

  sleeper;1779090 wrote:You can thank the government you want more of for that. They created a swiss cheese tax code and somehow you think the government running everything will solve all of our problems.
  
  LOL

  You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sleeper again.