Breaking down Bernie's plan

• BR1986FB

  SportsAndLady;1782060 wrote:[insert know-it-all sarcastic response from zwick here] in 3, 2, 1....

  I'm telling you right now, Obama is the worst president I've seen in my lifetime but Sanders would make Barry look like top 3. This guy's platform is a fucking nightmare.
• QuakerOats

  They both should be considered enemies of state.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  QuakerOats;1782055 wrote:Not true; the South didn't start leaning republican until the last 15 years or so, after finally seeing what democrats actually delivered over 40 years, and realizing they are largely a bunch of socialists.

  lol bullshit
• rrfan

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1782048 wrote:Poor rednecks have been voting Republican for years and they're still poor. See how dumb generalizations are?

  Can you Read? I did not say that Charles Barkley did.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  BR1986FB;1782056 wrote:And your dumbasses tax plan will cost $18 TRILLION (according to the WSJ), double the current national debt. Yay 'free' college....yay 'free' healthcare ! Fucking morons....he's got you idiots hook, line & sinker with that 'socialism's cool' bullshit.

  WSJ estimates 18 trillion. Most estimate 13-15 trillion... and its important to note that that's 13-15 trillion over a decade, not in a year. Which also is a reach since no single payer systems pays remotely close to that. My question to you... how much do we spend on healthcare a year? To save you some research, which you obviously won't do, we spend over a trillion a year right now. we already spend 10-12 trillion a decade in healthcare. a single payer systems cuts heavily on administration fees from multiples of insurances and economists say that alone could save us 5 trillion a year. How much do we spend in college a year? About 70 Billion just in tuition to public universities. That's not counting private university tuition. I know WSJ scared you and threw a scary number at you.. but guess what.. we're already spending that and more on a smaller portion of the populous.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  rrfan;1782072 wrote:Can you Read? I did not say that Charles Barkley did.

  did I say you did, or can you not read?
• like_that

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1782077 wrote:WSJ estimates 18 trillion. Most estimate 13-15 trillion... and its important to note that that's 13-15 trillion over a decade, not in a year. Which also is a reach since no single payer systems pays remotely close to that. My question to you... how much do we spend on healthcare a year? To save you some research, which you obviously won't do, we spend over a trillion a year right now. we already spend 10-12 trillion a decade in healthcare. a single payer systems cuts heavily on administration fees from multiples of insurances and economists say that alone could save us 5 trillion a year. How much do we spend in college a year? About 70 Billion just in tuition to public universities. That's not counting private university tuition. I know WSJ scared you and threw a scary number at you.. but guess what.. we're already spending that and more on a smaller portion of the populous.

  Zwick's defense mechanism.
  
  Be a smug know it all asshole to deflect from Bernie's obvious flaws.
  
  So you disregard any source against Bernie, but take his word for gold? Got it.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  like_that;1782085 wrote:Zwick's defense mechanism.
  
  Be a smug know it all asshole to deflect from Bernie's obvious flaws.
  
  So you disregard any source against Bernie, but take his word for gold? Got it.

  
  obvious flaws lol
  
  noticed you didn't dispute any point I made.. great rebuttal.
• BR1986FB

  QuakerOats;1782064 wrote:They both should be considered enemas of state.

  Fixed
• like_that

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1782086 wrote:obvious flaws lol
  
  noticed you didn't dispute any point I made.. great rebuttal.

  It's the same points you have been making this entire thread and other threads. We have already gone back and forth, but your argument consists of:
  
  "Do you realize how much of x we are spending on x? Might as well bring the median down to make people feel better in short term period, before they cry for me."
  
  Or
  
  "We are already fucked anyway, might as well spend more."
  
  I'm sorry you apparently can't recognize any of the flaws in Bernie's plans and rather be wishfully optimistic. My point still stands. Your defense mechanism is being a smug asshole to anyone who finds dents in Bernie's pipe dream.
• sleeper

  

  like_that;1782085 wrote:Zwick's defense mechanism.
  
  Be a smug know it all asshole to deflect from Bernie's obvious flaws.
  
  So you disregard any source against Bernie, but take his word for gold? Got it.

  Well to be fair it was $18T over 10 years and its also not double the current national debt either.
  
  However, the reality remains that the program cost is probably understated and the total tax increases to cover the increased costs are vastly overstated. Our debt will explode under a Bernie presidency but the good thing is that Bernie will never be President. Zwick knows this and refuses to put his money where his mouth is.
  
  Reality.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1782077 wrote:WSJ estimates 18 trillion. Most estimate 13-15 trillion... and its important to note that that's 13-15 trillion over a decade, not in a year. Which also is a reach since no single payer systems pays remotely close to that. My question to you... how much do we spend on healthcare a year? To save you some research, which you obviously won't do, we spend over a trillion a year right now. we already spend 10-12 trillion a decade in healthcare. a single payer systems cuts heavily on administration fees from multiples of insurances and economists say that alone could save us 5 trillion a year. How much do we spend in college a year? About 70 Billion just in tuition to public universities. That's not counting private university tuition. I know WSJ scared you and threw a scary number at you.. but guess what.. we're already spending that and more on a smaller portion of the populous.

  This of course assumes cost is the only consideration in healthcare and academics. It's not. Quality will degrade over time in both and that is the reality.
• sleeper

  

  Also Bernie needs to be more honest about how much his plans are going to cost middle class America.
  
  Anyone who believes the "rich" are going to pay for everything and the middle class will only see small increases are delusional and don't live in reality.
• like_that

  

  sleeper;1782094 wrote:This of course assumes cost is the only consideration in healthcare and academics. It's not. Quality will degrade over time in both and that is the reality.

  This, and also what would stop the schools from raising continuing to raise their costs if they know every student can keep borrowing money from the government to pay it off? The end result is the taxes being raised and in reality costing everybody more money. Once again, nothing is ever free.
• like_that

  

  sleeper;1782095 wrote:Also Bernie needs to be more honest about how much his plans are going to cost middle class America.
  
  Anyone who believes the "rich" are going to pay for everything and the middle class will only see small increases are delusional and don't live in reality.

  I like how everyone gives Donald shit from having no substance to his plans (and deservingly so), but Bernie is almost just as vague and people are eating that up. Brings the lulz.
• sleeper

  

  like_that;1782096 wrote:This, and also what would stop the schools from raising continuing to raise their costs if they know every student can keep borrowing money from the government to pay it off? The end result is the taxes being raised and in reality costing everybody more money. Once again, nothing is ever free.

  I'm not sure how free universities would work anyway. Do the universities dictate their price and then the government reimburses? Or does the government set the price for each school and then the schools just deal with the budget? In the former, costs will sky rocket well beyond the current $70B per year and the latter the quality will be 3rd world at best.
  
  I would be okay with free community colleges as sort of a Post-High school program designed to give people some real world skills instead of the garbage they teach in public school.
• sleeper

  

  like_that;1782097 wrote:I like how everyone gives Donald shit from having no substance to his plans (and deservingly so), but Bernie is almost just as vague and people are eating that up. Brings the lulz.

  All politicians are vague. Bernie is a straight liar.
• hasbeen

  

  sleeper;1782098 wrote:I'm not sure how free universities would work anyway. Do the universities dictate their price and then the government reimburses? Or does the government set the price for each school and then the schools just deal with the budget? In the former, costs will sky rocket well beyond the current $70B per year and the latter the quality will be 3rd world at best.

  If government takes over public universities, the best professors will leave.
  

  sleeper;1782098 wrote:I would be okay with free community colleges as sort of a Post-High school program designed to give people some real world skills instead of the garbage they teach in public school.

  Rather than create something like that, why not fix public education? Create a coursework that can be applied to the real world. Have very real repercussions if kids don't meet the standards. Of course, having real repercussions would then have to fix parenting and eliminate enabling.
• QuakerOats

  As is readily apparent, most of our problems are the result of government involvement, intrusion, and overreach.
  
  Get rid of BIG government, and free markets will bring costs down in education and health care.
  
  Of course, that will never happen until the oppression of the producers gets so great that we have a revolution. At the rate we are going, that time is not too far off.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  our states already subsidize state universities.. what all do you think will change?
• QuakerOats

  What can change is they all go back to teaching real courses and stop spending billions on diversity and social justice education (i.e. marxism). The thought that even a fraction of my tax money is going to fund that tyrannical bullshit is almost enough to rethink sending the government one dime.
• sleeper

  

  hasbeen;1782101 wrote:If government takes over public universities, the best professors will leave.
  
  
  
  Rather than create something like that, why not fix public education? Create a coursework that can be applied to the real world. Have very real repercussions if kids don't meet the standards. Of course, having real repercussions would then have to fix parenting and eliminate enabling.

  I agree on your first point if the government sets the reimbursement price. All the best professors will go to private schools.
  
  To your second point, I am for any reform of primary education. The whole thing is straight garbage.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1782123 wrote:our states already subsidize state universities.. what all do you think will change?

  Most of their revenue comes from tuition, aka private market. What would change? Either the quality will take a massive nose dive or the total cost will increase vastly to the point where $70B a year seems like a bargain.
• gut

  sleeper;1782099 wrote:All politicians are vague. Bernie is a straight liar.

  No, just another dumbass liberal who ignores basic economics either because he's ignorant or because he "knows in his heart" what is right.
• QuakerOats

  http://humanevents.com/2016/02/17/the-lure-of-socialism/
  
  
  How any true American could support any socialist is beyond belief, except for the fact that we have a dumb-downed education system and a radically liberal culture in power in higher 'education'.
  
  The above column by Mr. Sowell is spot on, once again.