Republican debates/primaries.

• jmog

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776935 wrote:No one knows what his tax hike is and who it affects because he hasn't released details. I've seen 19.6. I've seen 15. It's all conjecture at this point. But I do love hearing how all of you already know what it is lol. It is very entertaining.

  15, 19.6, doesn't matter we are still talking more than a TRILLION more taxes PER YEAR!
  
  That is literal insanity to believe that won't severely hurt the middle class.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  jmog;1776962 wrote:Blatantly lied? Come on Zwick, I had it on my laptop as a jpg and said I THOUGHT it was from Wash Post. I never said for sure because I couldn't remember.

  dude... you obviously looked it up at one point to come up with the Washington Post. it literally took 1 search on google to come up with the source.. you didn't think to use google?
• like_that

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776961 wrote:What exactly would you like me to respond to specifically? That's his plans have no chance of working or liberals ideology's "come crashing down" when faced with reality? The ambiguity of the latter makes it impossible to address for one... do you have specific ones you'd like to discuss?
  His plans certainly do have a chance of working. Will it work with the current congress? Nope.. no chance in hell. If republicans lose the senate does it? Hard telling but I'd venture a yes. Remember, we were told ACA had no chance in hell also.. where does that stand now?

  Where does ACA stand now? It's struggling and will only get worse, thus why single payer is a discussion right now.
  
  I just want to know where your logic is that makes you think his plans won't cost much to the middle class and how the rich will be able to support all of it. You keep bringing up other nations. Just like how every state in this country has their own set of characteristics every country does as well. Just because it works in whichever European country you're referring to (debatable) doesn't mean it will work here.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  jmog;1776963 wrote:15, 19.6, doesn't matter we are still talking more than a TRILLION more taxes PER YEAR!
  
  That is literal insanity to believe that won't severely hurt the middle class.

  What do you think healthcare right now is doing to the middle class? no affect on it? non issue? come on man.
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1776918 wrote:I listed more than just Forbes and WSJ, I also listed Wash Post and CNN which both have a liberal lean. You just so happened to ignore those and pick out the 2 that have a slight conservative lean? I can't imagine why?
  
  You may have a more rounded view on things if you don't subject yourself to something so obviously biased as the HuffPo.
  
  I liken that to QO who only posts crap from Drudge, Fox News, etc.

  Yeah if you are getting your news sources from HuffPo, you might as well be getting your news from Fox News.
  
  I think Forbes and WSJ are as neutral as they come with slight right leaning. If you want slight left leaning, CNN is pretty neutral too. The reality is, every media source has a lean one way or the other so the goal is to get as unbiased as possible.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776938 wrote:There's one thing we all know.. there will be a tax hike. It will affect everyone including middle class. He's admitted this as so. He says it will only slightly burden the middle class and heavily weight on the top bracket..
  
  We will see won't we?

  Of course he is going to say that. Democrats have been playing the class warfare card to get easy votes from stupid people. Reality tells us differently. Congrats on being hoodwinked by simple political tricks designed for the poor and stupid.
• sleeper

  

  SportsAndLady;1776939 wrote: You're essentially like the hundreds of thousands of liberals out there that think huge tax hikes on "billionaires" is the solution to fixing our debt problem and funding other liberal agendas set forth by our socialist president.

  This has been the narrative for years. I'm OPEN to the idea of adjusting tax rates but the idea that taxing the ultra wealthy is going solve all our financial problems and pay for all these social programs is DELUSIONAL at best.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  like_that;1776965 wrote:Where does ACA stand now? It's struggling and will only get worse, thus why single payer is a discussion right now.
  
  I just want to know where your logic is that makes you think his plans won't cost much to the middle class and how the rich will be able to support all of it. You keep bringing up other nations. Just like how every state in this country has their own set of characteristics every country does as well. Just because it works in whichever European country you're referring to (debatable) doesn't mean it will work here.

  It's been proven that healthcare is more expensive here than single payer countries. Why is that? Because you have a government negotiating prices.. which is why Medicare/caid gets better prices than you and I get. You mean to tell me you believe your healthcare costs would be higher than currently if you had government negotiated prices? You'd be lying to yourself.
• jmog

  All one needs to know is look at the fact that the European Union. The best capitalistic country (Germany) had to bail out most of the socialistic countries so that the whole Union didn't crash.
  
  If Greece, Italy, Scandinavian states, etc are what you strive the US to be, then by all means vote for Sanders. However, realize the economic blight most of them have been in recently. Look at the collapse of the USSR. It collapsed due to financial strains, not because of some war.
  
  History will repeat itself if the US keeps heading down this road, our financial security as a nation will collapse as well.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  jmog;1776975 wrote:All one needs to know is look at the fact that the European Union. The best capitalistic country (Germany) had to bail out most of the socialistic countries so that the whole Union didn't crash.
  
  If Greece, Italy, Scandinavian states, etc are what you strive the US to be, then by all means vote for Sanders. However, realize the economic blight most of them have been in recently. Look at the collapse of the USSR. It collapsed due to financial strains, not because of some war.
  
  History will repeat itself if the US keeps heading down this road, our financial security as a nation will collapse as well.

  that might be a point if someone was suggesting abandoning Capitalism for socialism.
• jmog

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776974 wrote:It's been proven that healthcare is more expensive here than single payer countries. Why is that? Because you have a government negotiating prices.. which is why Medicare gets better prices than you and I get. You mean to tell me you believe your healthcare costs would be higher than currently if you had government negotiated prices? You'd be lying to yourself.

  Our health care is more expenive for a number of reasons.
  1. Unpaid medical bills by the uninsured raising rates on others.
  2. Malpractice litigation causing high malpractice insurance rates.
  3. We subsidize the rest of the world. The vast majority of all medical research is done here, because the money is better for top end researchers. The pharmaceuticals pass that cost to us in the US but not/can not pass it to those in Europe etc.
  
  it it has nothing to do with the BS rates that Medicare/Medicaid pays. If you believe they are "negotiated" with the medical providers rather than dictated then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Those "negotiated" BS rates are part of the reason those of us WITH insurance pay so much, to offset the actual costs.
• jmog

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776976 wrote:that might be a point if someone was suggesting abandoning Capitalism for socialism.

  Have you read/seen Sanders wants/policies?
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776974 wrote:It's been proven that healthcare is more expensive here than single payer countries. Why is that? Because you have a government negotiating prices.. which is why Medicare/caid gets better prices than you and I get. You mean to tell me you believe your healthcare costs would be higher than currently if you had government negotiated prices? You'd be lying to yourself.

  It's also better here too. Yeah quality is kinda important.
  
  Now please link the WHO study ranking the US as #40 in quality. I've seen it, you've seen it, it's a crock of BS at best.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  jmog;1776978 wrote:Have you read/seen Sanders wants/policies?

  
  Yes.. have you?
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  jmog;1776977 wrote:Our health care is more expenive for a number of reasons.
  1. Unpaid medical bills by the uninsured raising rates on others.
  2. Malpractice litigation causing high malpractice insurance rates.
  3. We subsidize the rest of the world. The vast majority of all medical research is done here, because the money is better for top end researchers. The pharmaceuticals pass that cost to us in the US but not/can not pass it to those in Europe etc.
  
  it it has nothing to do with the BS rates that Medicare/Medicaid pays. If you believe they are "negotiated" with the medical providers rather than dictated then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Those "negotiated" BS rates are part of the reason those of us WITH insurance pay so much, to offset the actual costs.

  Your number 1 reason is the biggest reason its so expensive and also the biggest reason a single payer system makes sense.
• jmog

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776980 wrote:Yes.. have you?

  Yes, and they align fairly well with the socialist countries of Europe. Don't be dishonest and act like they don't.
  
  Sanders himself has come right out as this, so any supporter that tries to downplay it is just trying to "soften the blow" so to speak and therefor not being honest.
• jmog

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776981 wrote:Your number 1 reason is the biggest reason its so expensive and also the biggest reason a single payer system makes sense.

  I believe studies have shown that #3 is the largest followed by the Medicare/caid dictated rates, then the unpaid bills followed by the litigation.
  
  So no, the facts don't support a single payer being the best solution to lower costs.
• sleeper

  

  Man only if the government ran healthcare, airlines, hotels, grocery stores, cell phone companies, the oil industry and pretty much every means of production; think of all the money we would save!
  
  Signed,
  Bernie Sanders
  "Not a Socialist, just a Democratic Socialist"
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  jmog;1776983 wrote:I believe studies have shown that #3 is the largest followed by the Medicare/caid dictated rates, then the unpaid bills followed by the litigation.
  
  So no, the facts don't support a single payer being the best solution to lower costs.

  
  I'm talking strictly the government, not your premiums.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  sleeper;1776984 wrote:Man only if the government ran healthcare, airlines, hotels, grocery stores, cell phone companies, the oil industry and pretty much every means of production; think of all the money we would save!
  
  Signed,
  Bernie Sanders
  "Not a Socialist, just a Democratic Socialist"

  just stop it. no ones suggesting that.
• QuakerOats

  SportsAndLady;1776946 wrote:Basically if you read Fox News and Drudge, you're QO. If you read HuffPo and MSNBC, you're zwick.

  You must not know much about Drudge ---- it is an amalgamation of direct links to vast arrays of news articles and opinion pieces from reputable news outlets and authors. The credibility of said news agencies and contributors is quite high. Drudge himself does not write commentary. Hope this helps.
• Heretic

  

  QuakerOats;1776987 wrote:You must not know much about Drudge ---- it is an amalgamation of direct links to vast arrays of news articles and opinion pieces from reputable news outlets and authors. The credibility of said news agencies and contributors is quite high. Drudge himself does not write commentary. Hope this helps.

  That tend to be mainly conservative in nature. With over-the-top headlines written by a tabloid guy to draw in the rubes, as you demonstrate regularly with your cutting and pasting of links.
• HitsRus

  

  Rubes....you mean the people that elitists try to fool into thinking that ACA is all there is to it? That useless gun laws are not the first step toward confiscation?... that taxing billionaires is going to pay for the free stuff.
  
  25 years ago, Bernie Sanders was in bed with the Sandinistas and Castro, ....enemies of the United States. That is all you need to know about the man when considering whether to vote for him for President. We are not talking about being a mayor of a small town, or even the senator of a small state. This man, consorted with sworn enemies of the United States.
• jmog

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776985 wrote:I'm talking strictly the government, not your premiums.

  I am talking total health care costs regardless of where they come from.
• jmog

  Zwick do you admit or deny that Sander's wants/policies are basically European socialistic in nature? I hope you admit it because he has came right out and compared his policies to those countries time and time again.
  
  Of course, who cares if it is the countries that have had major financial crisis in the last 5 years or so, that's besides the point.