The enslaving of the poor ..... for $15.00

• BoatShoes

  QuakerOats;1742951 wrote:Most of the those jobs provide tremendous intrinsic value, beyond the pay, and 99% of those people will tell you that.
  
  Even the liberal at the NY Times gets it: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/24/opinion/david-brooks-the-minimum-wage-muddle.html?WT.mc_id=SmartBriefs-Newsletter&WT.mc_ev=click&_r=0
  
  
  
  Tell Karl we said hello.

  1. I agree that employment has intrinsic value that is why I advocate for full employment.
  
  2. Just because intentional labor is part of living a good and desirable life does not mean that low wages cannot be offensive to human dignity.
  
  3. I am not a marxist as I do not believe workers should own and control all factors of production. I believe in full employment capitalism.
  
  4. It is funny...actual socialists call me a fascist...you are just as crazy as them because you cannot have a conversation without calling people marxists just like they call everyone fascists.
  
  5. David Brooks is a moderate Republican.
  
  6. I have already indicated that I prefer other public policies than the minimum wage so I do not know why you would cite that article.
• Bio-Hazzzzard

  

  isadore;1742879 wrote:Gosh a ruddies I realize you are offended by able bodies 70 year olds collecting their social security

  They paid in to get this benefit your argument here doesn't make sense.
  
  

  isadore;1742879 wrote: 55 year old 30 year military veterans receiving their pensions

  He/she fought for our country and earned every right to their pension
  
  

  isadore;1742879 wrote: able bodies widows 14 years receiving payments when one parent dies

  
  Widow/widower this would be devastating, I sure wouldn't give up on my child if the government offered me a handout. I would strive to make the most of myself to continue to provide the way it was before the death of the spouse.
  
  

  isadore;1742879 wrote: women who have deserted by their husband getting welfare to help support their children

  
  Don't forget about the wife that left her husband and children for another man, he is still an able body that can provide for his children
  

  isadore;1742879 wrote:these parasites tapping off the liberal maple tree

  It's an unfortunate reality for those who do work there ass off and see parasites tapping at their paycheck through their tax dollars.
  

  isadore;1742879 wrote: And then there is this arrogant 22 year old who does not grovel enough for you, but stands up and demands fair treatment, so you fire him. From your description we can not tell the difficulty of his travel, what his educational background and training are, and what he has to do to earn that fantastic unbelievable sum of $18.50 an hour. What we can tell is his boss, is unpleasant to work for.

  
  
  You did forget to mention the benefits that I as an employer provided him. What you also don't realize is that i bought him lunch at least twice a week and bought him a car for Christmas one year as a christmas bonus. He lived at home with his parents banking most of the dollars he made and his travel difficulty was minimal as he lived two minutes from the interstate and usually around thirty minutes from the job. he was well trained and compensated very well in the industry he worked in. If I am an unpleasant boss to work for I'd sure hate to see worse.
  
  

  isadore;1742879 wrote:For fast food and retail workers, they are often employed by large corporations who have all the power in the work relationship. Unions have been largely destroyed and the government is the only institution that can get the worker any fairness in his pay or conditions.

  The government taps business owners enough through taxes and now they want to raise minimum wages so they can wet the ass of the working American citizen even more, more money paid out by business owners the more tax revenue is accrued. I really don't see how you don't get that.
• QuakerOats

  http://www.westernjournalism.com/seattles-15-minimum-wage-law-just-came-back-to-bite-them-in-a-totally-unexpected-way/
  
  
  When BIG government and liberal activists who never met a payroll interject their political agenda into a capitalist economy, bad things happen.
  
  The Progressive Destruction Tour rolls on .......
• isadore

  Bio-Hazzzzard;1743011 wrote:They paid in to get this benefit your argument here doesn't make sense.
  
  
  
  
  He/she fought for our country and earned every right to their pension
  
  
  
  
  
  Widow/widower this would be devastating, I sure wouldn't give up on my child if the government offered me a handout. I would strive to make the most of myself to continue to provide the way it was before the death of the spouse.
  
  
  
  
  
  Don't forget about the wife that left her husband and children for another man, he is still an able body that can provide for his children
  
  
  
  It's an unfortunate reality for those who do work there ass off and see parasites tapping at their paycheck through their tax dollars.
  
  
  
  You did forget to mention the benefits that I as an employer provided him. What you also don't realize is that i bought him lunch at least twice a week and bought him a car for Christmas one year as a christmas bonus. He lived at home with his parents banking most of the dollars he made and his travel difficulty was minimal as he lived two minutes from the interstate and usually around thirty minutes from the job. he was well trained and compensated very well in the industry he worked in. If I am an unpleasant boss to work for I'd sure hate to see worse.
  
  
  
  
  The government taps business owners enough through taxes and now they want to raise minimum wages so they can wet the ass of the working American citizen even more, more money paid out by business owners the more tax revenue is accrued. I really don't see how you don't get that.

  Who do you think receive the bulk of money going those” tapping off the liberal maple tree:” government retirees including veterans, who also get medical care, social security recipients ( you are a strong supporter of not providing funds to children whose have lost a parent, now that is cold blooded of you), physically and mentally handicapped, Medicare to the aged. Now that who get the big money. You begrudge money to single parent families receiving tanf, food stamps and Medicaid, tough luck for the kids in those families, a little starvation and disease will build their characters. Of course you resent providing the working poor food stamps which they need to feed their families because their wages are so low. And then you oppose raising the minimum wage that would give them a chance to make enough to feed their families.
  Gosh a ruddies, did that guy hurt your feeling by quitting. Hey what was his educational background, is he a college graduate and what does he have to do for that $18.50 an hour? After he left you, did he go on to a better job? The answers to those questions help decide whether he was making &#8220eanuts.”
  
  
• Belly35

  

  isadore;1743081 wrote:Who do you think receive the bulk of money going those” tapping off the liberal maple tree:” government retirees including veterans, who also get medical care, social security recipients ( you are a strong supporter of not providing funds to children whose have lost a parent, now that is cold blooded of you), physically and mentally handicapped, Medicare to the aged. Now that who get the big money. You begrudge money to single parent families receiving tanf, food stamps and Medicaid, tough luck for the kids in those families, a little starvation and disease will build their characters. Of course you resent providing the working poor food stamps which they need to feed their families because their wages are so low. And then you oppose raising the minimum wage that would give them a chance to make enough to feed their families.
  Gosh a ruddies, did that guy hurt your feeling by quitting. Hey what was his educational background, is he a college graduate and what does he have to do for that $18.50 an hour? After he left you, did he go on to a better job? The answers to those questions help decide whether he was making “peanuts.”
  

  Here what piss me off ... You are so quick to point out who needs this help but never offering a solution other that more tax, take from the rich.... blame blame and more blame.
  Here is what your idealogy will take the USA :
  http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/12/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2014
  
  You can throw money at issue all day long but nothing will stick.. and will never stick until you get to the root of the issue ...
  
  Lets cover just one aspect that you Liberal Democrat Bleeding Heart dodge.... FEDERAL SPENDING WASTE.
  
  Before any individual, business or organization can help themselves they need to identify what they waste and how to correct the spending or bleeding of the budget.
  
  Isadore please identify where you would make changes to stop the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SPENDING WASTE?
• isadore

  Belly35;1743106 wrote:Here what piss me off ... You are so quick to point out who needs this help but never offering a solution other that more tax, take from the rich.... blame blame and more blame.
  Here is what your idealogy will take the USA :
  http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/12/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2014
  
  You can throw money at issue all day long but nothing will stick.. and will never stick until you get to the root of the issue ...
  
  Lets cover just one aspect that you Liberal Democrat Bleeding Heart dodge.... FEDERAL SPENDING WASTE.
  
  Before any individual, business or organization can help themselves they need to identify what they waste and how to correct the spending or bleeding of the budget.
  
  Isadore please identify where you would make changes to stop the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SPENDING WASTE?

  gosh a ruddies when we actually do what I suggest then we can worry about waste. Lets really tax the rich and corporations.
• HitsRus

  

  Lets really pretend to tax the rich and corporations.

  It's great to get votes, and nobody realizes that it's the middle class that will pay for it, if not directly, then indirectly.
• isadore

  HitsRus;1743197 wrote:It's great to get votes, and nobody realizes that it's the middle class that will pay for it, if not directly, then indirectly.

  gosh a ruddies, lets roll back all those cuts and breaks to rich and corporations began with Reaganomics.
• Al Bundy

  isadore;1743210 wrote:gosh a ruddies, lets roll back all those cuts and breaks to rich and corporations began with Reaganomics.

  You want to go back to the Carter years?
• isadore

  Al Bundy;1743219 wrote:You want to go back to the Carter years?

  There were positives and negatives of the Carter years. A more equitable tax rates were one of the relative positives
• Bio-Hazzzzard

  

  Originally Posted by isadore
  Who do you think receive the bulk of money going those” tapping off the liberal maple tree:” government retirees including veterans, who also get medical care, social security recipients ( you are a strong supporter of not providing funds to children whose have lost a parent, now that is cold blooded of you), physically and mentally handicapped, Medicare to the aged. Now that who get the big money. You begrudge money to single parent families receiving tanf, food stamps and Medicaid, tough luck for the kids in those families, a little starvation and disease will build their characters. Of course you resent providing the working poor food stamps which they need to feed their families because their wages are so low. And then you oppose raising the minimum wage that would give them a chance to make enough to feed their families.
  
  
  
  Do you realize how many people milk off the system that don't need these governmental handouts but do because they can? The government sure doesn't mind as the have that unfortunate socialistic control of those who do so. If there were limitations fortifying the freeloaders from undeserved benefits it would siphon the funds to those who really do deserve it. This would eventually force the able bodied leach to either better themselves or starve to death. If a high school senior can choose to get a good education what is stopping the the 40 year old lamb bone from doing the same thing.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Originally Posted by isadore
  Gosh a ruddies, did that guy hurt your feeling by quitting. Hey what was his educational background, is he a college graduate and what does he have to do for that $18.50 an hour? After he left you, did he go on to a better job? The answers to those questions help decide whether he was making “peanuts.”
  
  
  
  
  He did not hurt my feelings one bit. His background was a high school degree and he chose not to pursue a college education. You seem to still forget the benefits that I paid him beyond his wage of $18.50 p/h. If you figure in the benefits that he was paid he was hovering around $23 p/h, not to shabby for a 22 year old back in 2000 when he worked for me. He moved on to make $11 p/h with no benefits and he had to drive his own car30 minutes to the job and his own fuel which I provided him with. The last I spoke to him was about 2 years ago he was making $15 p/h with no benefits and was regretful of his mistake. If he had not bitched about working for peanuts back the chances are he would still have a job with me making around $35 p/h with the great benefits to go with it. My business is in the concrete construction industry, so his wage was more than fair.
• isadore

  Gosh a ruddies now there is a solution to a supposed problem. America the Shining City on a Hill, will look more like Calcutta. We are going to starve people to teach them a lesson, especially those single mothers with their children who make up the bulk of those living in poverty. It will stop them from “tapping off the liberal maple tree.”
  I am sure that young man is so sorry for having offended the great beneficent capitalist who is the fount for all goodness, kindness and largesse.
  
• Bio-Hazzzzard

  

  isadore;1743256 wrote:Gosh a ruddies now there is a solution to a supposed problem. America the Shining City on a Hill, will look more like Calcutta. We are going to starve people to teach them a lesson, especially those single mothers with their children who make up the bulk of those living in poverty. It will stop them from “tapping off the liberal maple tree.”
  I am sure that young man is so sorry for having offended the great beneficent capitalist who is the fount for all goodness, kindness and largesse.

  
  
  Your obtuseness is overwhelmingly evident that you care more for the government to provide to the people rather than the business owners creating jobs for people to provide for themselves and make an honest days wage. I'm assuming that you have found every possible way to milk the system to your personal benefit. Would it be wrong of me to ask if you have a job, or should I just assume that you live off of tax dollars. I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine.
• HitsRus

  

  the great beneficent government who is the fount for all goodness, kindness and largesse.

  and do you believe this to be true?
• isadore

  Bio-Hazzzzzard wrote:Your obtuseness is overwhelmingly evident that you care more for the government to provide to the people rather than the business owners creating jobs for people to provide for themselves and make an honest days wage. I'm assuming that you have found every possible way to milk the system to your personal benefit. Would it be wrong of me to ask if you have a job, or should I just assume that you live off of tax dollars. I answered your questions, maybe you can answer mine.

  
  
  Gosh a ruddies, “job creators” now there is a term that has been used to skew political system to favor the rich and corporations moving America away from Democracy to an oligarchy. A system that allows the rich and corporations to flood money into lobbying and campaign contributions so they can dominate our government. It is interesting that when we allow the people to vote on minimum wage raises, they rather consistently support it even when flooded with “job creator” BS. Gee wilikers I started working at 13 for minimum wage as a store clerk which I continued 30-40 hours a week through HS. At 18 I did factory work in the summers usually for minimum or slightly above through college. Then began my career’s work for a while. No TANF, no food stamps, no aid to dependent children, no disability, no supplementary social security.
• isadore

  HitsRus;1743285 wrote:and do you believe this to be true?

  a Democratic government should reflect the will of the people, corporations are soulless, driven by profit or by what is best for the upper controlling management.
• Belly35

  

  isadore;1743288 wrote:
  
  Gosh a ruddies, “job creators” now there is a term that has been used to skew political system to favor the rich and corporations moving America away from Democracy to an oligarchy. A system that allows the rich and corporations to flood money into lobbying and campaign contributions so they can dominate our government. It is interesting that when we allow the people to vote on minimum wage raises, they rather consistently support it even when flooded with “job creator” BS. Gee wilikers I started working at 13 for minimum wage as a store clerk which I continued 30-40 hours a week through HS. At 18 I did factory work in the summers usually for minimum or slightly above through college. Then began my career’s work for a while. No TANF, no food stamps, no aid to dependent children, no disability, no supplementary social security.

  You do understand that there is a starting point to employment, its called the bottom, depending on how well you do, how quickly you learn, how on time, dependable and responsible you are you will move up in the company or department. (unless it a Union shop and then some ass kissing, fuck nut with more time get the job and you are bumped.)So starting your work history as a 13 year old cleck at minimum wage for 5 years tell me one thing you did enought to keep your job but nothing more to earn more. Plus lets be honest you needed the work more that they needed you who would be leaving in 5 years showing no interest in being a career store cleck or managerin the future. Factory work in the summer what did you expect assistant director of development salary .... its a fucking summer job and the Union took their cut from your earnings.
  But that does tell us what your career is or was....
• isadore

  Gosh a ruddies you do understand that there is a floor under wages (minimum wage), so the worker does not get ripped off by his employer. I learned to be dependable long before I ever worked for an employer. Gee wilikers big guy when I was 13, I just started 8[SUP]th[/SUP] grade. My purpose was not a future career in retail grocery work, it was money for college and my employers got a person whose schedule fit well with their business needs and who was dependable. I would not claim that I deserved more than minimum wage when I was clerking, I would when I was in the factory. Actually the company had an agreement with the Union that summer workers did not join the Union. I used to do the rigging for a crane operator, usually filling railway cars full with scrap metal. I deserve more than minimum for that one.
  
• Al Bundy

  isadore;1743373 wrote:Gosh a ruddies you do understand that there is a floor under wages (minimum wage), so the worker does not get ripped off by his employer. I learned to be dependable long before I ever worked for an employer. Gee wilikers big guy when I was 13, I just started 8[SUP]th[/SUP] grade. My purpose was not a future career in retail grocery work, it was money for college and my employers got a person whose schedule fit well with their business needs and who was dependable. I would not claim that I deserved more than minimum wage when I was clerking, I would when I was in the factory. Actually the company had an agreement with the Union that summer workers did not join the Union. I used to do the rigging for a crane operator, usually filling railway cars full with scrap metal. I deserve more than minimum for that one.

  If you feel that you deserve more than minimum wage, why not go out and get it? If you could not demonstrate your value to your current employer, show it to someone else. I know it is much easier to get on a message board and continually whine as opposed to putting in the work to actually earn something.
• isadore

  Al Bundy;1743383 wrote:If you feel that you deserve more than minimum wage, why not go out and get it? If you could not demonstrate your value to your current employer, show it to someone else. I know it is much easier to get on a message board and continually whine as opposed to putting in the work to actually earn something.

  gosh a ruddies big guy we are talking about a summer job I had several years ago. Hardly a subject a whine about continually. Now the conditions that many low paid workers have to stomach today are well worth complaining about continually until they are fixed either by workers organizing or government action.
• Belly35

  

  isadore;1743373 wrote:Gosh a ruddies you do understand that there is a floor under wages (minimum wage), so the worker does not get ripped off by his employer. I learned to be dependable long before I ever worked for an employer. Gee wilikers big guy when I was 13, I just started 8[SUP]th[/SUP] grade. My purpose was not a future career in retail grocery work, it was money for college and my employers got a person whose schedule fit well with their business needs and who was dependable. I would not claim that I deserved more than minimum wage when I was clerking, I would when I was in the factory. Actually the company had an agreement with the Union that summer workers did not join the Union. I used to do the rigging for a crane operator, usually filling railway cars full with scrap metal. I deserve more than minimum for that one.

  
  
  Was that in the bar mill ? I started in the labor gang but then moved to the loading rail and trucks for Republic Steel for a summer job.. bar division.. I started min wage swing shift but worked every two week doubles for three days over time. Without any reasoning my pay was double within two months plus the extra overtime was time and 1/2. I could have made a career but ...no.
  
  Side note: I was involved in the blasting of the Steel Valley … very sad day in my life, came home that day told the wife the heart of Youngstown was just in rubble.
  
  Avoiding the question ... what was or is your career?
• isadore

  Belly35;1743399 wrote:Was that in the bar mill ? I started in the labor gang but then moved to the loading rail and trucks for Republic Steel for a summer job.. bar division.. I started min wage swing shift but worked every two week doubles for three days over time. Without any reasoning my pay was double within two months plus the extra overtime was time and 1/2. I could have made a career but ...no.
  
  Side note: I was involved in the blasting of the Steel Valley … very sad day in my life, came home that day told the wife the heart of Youngstown was just in rubble.
  
  Avoiding the question ... what was or is your career?

  no place as big as Republic, I don't remember them ever offering any of us overtime.
  That whole episode I Youngstown was really sad.
• Bio-Hazzzzard

  

  isadore;1743288 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, “job creators” now there is a term that has been used to skew political system to favor the rich and corporations moving America away from Democracy to an oligarchy. A system that allows the rich and corporations to flood money into lobbying and campaign contributions so they can dominate our government. It is interesting that when we allow the people to vote on minimum wage raises, they rather consistently support it even when flooded with “job creator” BS.

  If a job creator is the problem how did our country survive it's origination? I'd bet if they didn't work they didn't eat.
  
  
  

  isadore;1743288 wrote:Gee wilikers I started working at 13 for minimum wage as a store clerk which I continued 30-40 hours a week through HS. At 18 I did factory work in the summers usually for minimum or slightly above through college.

  
  
  Entry level job for entry level money, this should never change.
  
  

  isadore;1743288 wrote:Then began my career’s work for a while.

  
  That doesn't sound like it lasted to long.
  
  If the welfare office told you and your fellow liberal nipple feeders that in order to collect the welfare check you would have to work a shift every day picking leaves out of the cracks of the city sidewalks in order to collect the funds. That surely wouldn't be fair, would it? What about the person who collects the welfare during the day crying poor mouth and sells drugs for lucrative wages at night? Does that seem fair to the honest hard working citizen who's tax dollars are paying for this?
• isadore

  Bio-Hazzzzard;1743494 wrote:If a job creator is the problem how did our country survive it's origination? I'd bet if they didn't work they didn't eat.
  
  
  
  
  Entry level job for entry level money, this should never change.
  
  
  
  
  That doesn't sound like it lasted to long.
  
  If the welfare office told you and your fellow liberal nipple feeders that in order to collect the welfare check you would have to work a shift every day picking leaves out of the cracks of the city sidewalks in order to collect the funds. That surely wouldn't be fair, would it? What about the person who collects the welfare during the day crying poor mouth and sells drugs for lucrative wages at night? Does that seem fair to the honest hard working citizen who's tax dollars are paying for this?

  Gosh a ruddies, you want to go back to the good old days. You would have fit right in with your attitude to be one toward workers as the “job creators” back then, because back then a large part of the labor force was owned. They were slaves or indentured servants. People you could beat or torture if they not work that way you wanted. With slaves you could even kill them, they were your property. And if they tried to leave your employment you could hunt them down. Its centuries later but “job creators” like you want to starve people in the streets, so they will die and decrease the excess population, so says Ebenezer Biohazzzzzard Scrooge. Despite what you think, entry level wages, should not be slave wages. We will use the legislative process to get a fair wage for these workers. So you can hang together some pathetic clichés to falsely label those in need. We will provide fair wages for those in need.
  
• Bio-Hazzzzard

  

  isadore;1743496 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, you want to go back to the good old days. You would have fit right in with your attitude to be one toward workers as the “job creators” back then, because back then a large part of the labor force was owned. They were slaves or indentured servants. People you could beat or torture if they not work that way you wanted. With slaves you could even kill them, they were your property. And if they tried to leave your employment you could hunt them down. Its centuries later but “job creators” like you want to starve people in the streets, so they will die and decrease the excess population, so says Ebenezer Biohazzzzzard Scrooge. Despite what you think, entry level wages, should not be slave wages. We will use the legislative process to get a fair wage for these workers. So you can hang together some pathetic clichés to falsely label those in need. We will provide fair wages for those in need.

  
  So answer my question, should able bodied welfare recipients be required to perform daily 8 hour tasks to collect, or is this just simply an issue that the American taxpayer just lay back while having these people leech of the system? I have no Idea what has warped the minds of some, please elaborate.