Can we just shut the government down already?

• justincredible

  

  The ruling class hates us proles.
• WebFire

  ernest_t_bass;1511882 wrote:Why does the government even have the right to shut down these privately run organizations?

  The gov't still owns the land, they just don't run it. So they aren't telling the company to shut down, they are just telling them not to operate on their land.
  
  Dumb either way.
• queencitybuckeye

  WebFire;1511924 wrote:The gov't still owns the land, they just don't run it. So they aren't telling the company to shut down, they are just telling them not to operate on their land.
  
  Dumb either way.

  Not dumb if your goal is to make the shutdown seem as bad as you can for political purposes. Disgusting sociopaths, but not dumb.
• sleeper

  

  Obama came out today and blamed House Republicans for the shutdown as well as saying he will not negotiate at all until the government is funded with no strings attached and the debt ceiling is raised.
  
  I can see this shutdown lasting forever because both sides are dug in heavily.
• SportsAndLady

  

  sleeper;1511992 wrote:Obama came out today and blamed House Republicans for the shutdown as well as saying he will not negotiate at all until the government is funded with no strings attached and the debt ceiling is raised.
  
  I can see this shutdown lasting forever because both sides are dug in heavily.

  I listened to the first sentence in that interview and just turned the tv off. He's a fucking disgrace of a president.
• IggyPride00

  

  sleeper;1511992 wrote:Obama came out today and blamed House Republicans for the shutdown as well as saying he will not negotiate at all until the government is funded with no strings attached and the debt ceiling is raised.
  
  I can see this shutdown lasting forever because both sides are dug in heavily.

  There will be some kind of resolution by Oct 17th, which is default date.
  
  If they let that happen all hell is going to break loose in the markets, so they will have to start fixing it immediately because it is going to make the 08 financial crash look tame.
• O-Trap

  

  sleeper;1511992 wrote:Obama came out today and blamed House Republicans for the shutdown as well as saying he will not negotiate at all until the government is funded with no strings attached and the debt ceiling is raised.

  So, he'll negotiate after they've giving him what he wants out of a negotiation ...
  
  ... yeah, that's how negotiation is supposed to work.
  
  Is it weird that I actually like that this is happening?
• Me?

  

  There is absolutely not reason whatsoever for the government to default. They bring in more than enough money. The only reason it would happen is in a pathetic political attempt to shame Republicans that would just end up hurting us all. Obama is the worst leader to ever hold the office.
• sleeper

  

  SportsAndLady;1511995 wrote:I listened to the first sentence in that interview and just turned the tv off. He's a fucking disgrace of a president.

  It doesn't surprise me. Very embarrassed that he is our President; I didn't think I could be more embarrassed of our President after the Bush years but Obama is at a different level of incompetence.
  
  Disgrace indeed.
• sleeper

  

  O-Trap;1512001 wrote:So, he'll negotiate after they've giving him what he wants out of a negotiation ...
  
  ... yeah, that's how negotiation is supposed to work.
  
  Is it weird that I actually like that this is happening?

  If this is truly the only way to get rid of Obamacare then I'm for it. If this is just merely political games, then its a joke.
  
  My bet is clean CR will be passed sometime next week along with raising the debt ceiling.
• Con_Alma

  Me?;1512008 wrote:There is absolutely not reason whatsoever for the government to default. They bring in more than enough money. ...

  Agreed.
• IggyPride00

  

  I am seeing reports Boehner has given assurances privately to his colleagues that he will not allow default to happen, and will raise the debt ceiling using Democrat votes if necessary (thus violating the Hastert rule).
  
  This is why Obama and Reid know they don't have to negotiate, because when push comes to shove Boehner knows you can't pull the trigger on the default button no matter how loath you are to pass that bill. As the world reserve currency it would cause mass chaos.
• Me?

  

  They likely won't get anywhere with this, however, despite how the media wants to spin it I do think that standing up and fighting will help Republicans in midterm elections. Time will tell on that. Obamacare will destroy itself, the problem is I think it is designed to do just that. So whoever is there to control the clean up of the mess is going to decide how much better or worse it will get. If it's still Dems, we're going to single payer and it will be an exponentially larger disaster.
  
  This whole thing is really a delight to a libertarian. The establishment GOP is getting thrown in the mud. The Dems look like children. Both are alienating people they count on. Government shutdown is proving to create an apocalyptic scenario. All this talk of non essential employees shows that there really is money that could easily be cut from the federal budget. Ron Paul has been right on basically everything. This is a big moment for our political future.
• IggyPride00

  

  Me?;1512008 wrote:There is absolutely not reason whatsoever for the government to default. They bring in more than enough money. The only reason it would happen is in a pathetic political attempt to shame Republicans that would just end up hurting us all. Obama is the worst leader to ever hold the office.

  Are you a liberal? Do you not believe in the sanctity of contracts? Stiffing a worker, contractor, or anyone else the federal government doees business with is no different than not making a debt payment.
  
  They are all contracts in which the federal govt has entered, and that is why the market would react so poorly as failing to meet any agreed upon payment is considered a technical default whether it is interest payments or any other contract.
  
  Besides, there is no legal mechanism for the govt. to pick and choose who to stiff when it comes to making payments if it doesn't have sufficient resources.
• Me?

  

  They don't even have to raise the debt ceiling to not default. They just REFUSE to cut spending anywhere. That's the only reason. They bring in enough tax revenue monthly to easily cover the debt interest, Medicare, Social Security, military and all those other "mandatory" bills. They won't budge an inch on discretionary spending, so they talk about a default. If they could prioritize spending and remove waste and operations that the federal government has no Constitutional business doing anyways, we wouldn't even be talking about raising the debt ceiling.
• Me?

  

  IggyPride00;1512019 wrote:Are you a liberal? Do you not believe in the sanctity of contracts? Stiffing a worker, contractor, or anyone else the federal government doees business with is no different than not making a debt payment.
  
  They are all contracts in which the federal govt has entered, and that is why the market would react so poorly as failing to meet any agreed upon payment is considered a technical default whether it is interest payments or any other contract.
  
  Besides, there is no legal mechanism for the govt. to pick and choose who to stiff when it comes to making payments if it doesn't have sufficient resources.

  No, not a liberal. However there are legal mechanisms to say that A LOT of those contracts aren't legally binding anyways. Do you realize how much of the federal governments operations are unconstitutional?
• IggyPride00

  

  "We're not going to be disrespected, We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

  Congressman Marlin Stutzman of Indiana.
  
  These people are clueless and none of them should be getting a single dime while this fiasco is going on.
• Me?

  

  Also, not filling a government contract to a private contractor is not anywhere near the same thing as defaulting on debt interest payments--don't BS everyone, you know that.
• IggyPride00

  

  Me?;1512025 wrote:Also, not filling a government contract to a private contractor is not anywhere near the same thing as defaulting on debt interest payments--don't BS everyone, you know that.

  Markets are all about confidence.
  
  If the government starts stiffing contractors, interest rates are going up regardless of whether we are making technical interest payments.
  
  It calls into question the full faith and credit of the United States if you don't know whether or not they will fulfill a legally negotiated contract or not.
  
  That is part and parcel for how markets price risk (which is ultimately what determines our interest rates), which is what this is all about.
• Me?

  

  Markets are about confidence because they're artificial. I'm rooting for the bottom to fall out personally. Has to happen someday, might as well be now. End the Fed.
• QuakerOats

  O-Trap;1512001 wrote:So, he'll negotiate after they've giving him what he wants out of a negotiation ...
  
  ... yeah, that's how negotiation is supposed to work.
  
  Is it weird that I actually like that this is happening?

  
  
  No, because reasonable people, when presented with all the facts, generally come to the right conclusion.
  
  Unfortunately, with the left-wing media being dominant, most people do not get all the facts. Instead, they get the administration's talking points.
• gut

  QuakerOats;1512039 wrote:No, because reasonable people, when presented with all the facts, generally come to the right conclusion.
  
  Unfortunately, with the left-wing media being dominant, most people do not get all the facts. Instead, they get the administration's talking points.

  Liberals don't believe in reason, they believe in ideals.
  
  Harry Reid yesterday basically said Obamakare is his, Obama's and Pelosi's legacy and they will never budge. So at the end of the day, what it really boils down is that it's about them, and not what is good for the country or anything else. What's important is that Reid/Obama/Pelosi have their signature achievement.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Dumb something down here for me... If Obamakare passes, can't the next office just repeal or change it... or even get rid of it?
• O-Trap

  

  sleeper;1512012 wrote:If this is truly the only way to get rid of Obamacare then I'm for it. If this is just merely political games, then its a joke.
  
  My bet is clean CR will be passed sometime next week along with raising the debt ceiling.

  I like it because it makes everyone in the two major parties look like what they are: self-interested blowhards who are quick to hold the American public hostage in order to get what they, themselves, want. BOTH sides are doing precisely this, and this whole scenario has simply made that apparent.
  
  What's more, this has contributed to the continuing disenfranchisement with both parties ... something I think needs to happen, given their current roles/role in the system.
  

  Me?;1512018 wrote:This whole thing is really a delight to a libertarian. The establishment GOP is getting thrown in the mud. The Dems look like children. Both are alienating people they count on. Government shutdown is proving to create an apocalyptic scenario. All this talk of non essential employees shows that there really is money that could easily be cut from the federal budget. Ron Paul has been right on basically everything. This is a big moment for our political future.

  Yep. Practically creaming my Libertarian pants over it.
  

  QuakerOats;1512039 wrote:No, because reasonable people, when presented with all the facts, generally come to the right conclusion.
  
  Unfortunately, with the left-wing media being dominant, most people do not get all the facts. Instead, they get the administration's talking points.

  Both wings are showing their true colors in this, and neither one is showing any interest in the American people's interests. It's just nice to see them go so far as to come right out and plainly show it.
• O-Trap

  

  ernest_t_bass;1512048 wrote:Dumb something down here for me... If Obamakare passes, can't the next office just repeal or change it... or even get rid of it?

  Based on the treatment of the Second Amendment by the current crop, it would seem so.