obamaKare: the destruction begins

• QuakerOats

  ^^^ Whoda thunk.
  
  
  Among the most prolific frauds perpetrated upon The People.
  
  
  Hey, let's double down on it.
• HitsRus

  

  BoatShoes;1819143 wrote:It is so funny how you talk about uniting the country and yet look at the way you talk about dems. You think we are evil rather than people who are mostly decent citizens with different ideas about what is good for the country, etc.

  I said Progressives, not Democrats.....or do you think all Republicans are "tea Party"? I agree with you 100% that most dems are decent citizens, my comment was directed at progressive ideology and methods.
  
  There were more than a few candidates that understand that to be President is to be President of ALL, and that playing off the ends against the middle has brought us to what we have today. Unfortunately, they were drowned out by the angry voices on the right AND the left.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  HitsRus;1819237 wrote:There were more than a few candidates that understand that to be President is to be President of ALL.

  Unfortunately, I think those days are gone.
• HitsRus

  

  I would like to think respect for everybody's Liberty would return someday as people realize that a house divided cannot stand.
• FatHobbit

  

  QuakerOats;1819182 wrote: What next, full scale communism where the state forces providers to provide care for whatever the state dictates?

  Yes. That is basically what single payer is.
• Heretic

  

  HitsRus;1819245 wrote:I would like to think respect for everybody's Liberty would return someday as people realize that a house divided cannot stand.

  That would take both side realizing they aren't completely correct on every issue, the other side has merit to their ideas and that compromise is the way to get unity.
  
  Currently, both sides are splitting farther apart and looking to squash each other because that's what fires up the people farther to their particular side. And since the current way of operations is to preach to the choir and then hope the more moderate/undecided people are swayed by your general line of thought, that looks, at best, a long way off and, at worst, hilariously idealistic.
• HitsRus

  

  ^^^unless you return to that, it is inevitable that we will fracture as a country as well. Are we all that polarized, or is it just a few that scream louder and get all the attention?
• Heretic

  

  HitsRus;1819309 wrote:^^^unless you return to that, it is inevitable that we will fracture as a country as well. Are we all that polarized, or is it just a few that scream louder and get all the attention?

  That is a good question. My semi-educated guess is that there's a few that scream louder and get all the attention, but by doing so, they attract enough sheep to regurgitate what they say, making it at least seem very polarized.
  
  You can have a far left or right website churning out tabloid-like, hilariously biased clickbait daily, but without a flock of readers treating them like gospel and re-tweeting, sharing, talking about their stuff, they wouldn't have an impact. It's almost a chicken/egg thing, where you wonder if the divide would be what it is if not for how certain people have found it profitable to capitalize off the divide. You know, did the divide create Breitbart, Gawker (even if not existing in name anymore, it definitely exists in spirit throughout all the other Gawker-family sites) or did they take a general disagreement and turn it into a legit divide?
• like_that

  

  Heretic;1819290 wrote:That would take both side realizing they aren't completely correct on every issue, the other side has merit to their ideas and that compromise is the way to get unity.
  
  Currently, both sides are splitting farther apart and looking to squash each other because that's what fires up the people farther to their particular side. And since the current way of operations is to preach to the choir and then hope the more moderate/undecided people are swayed by your general line of thought, that looks, at best, a long way off and, at worst, hilariously idealistic.

  I was speaking to a coworker of my gf this past weekend at a wedding and she asked about our celebration plans for election. I told her celebrating this election is like celebrating a successful abortion or paternity test on Maury. It didn't go over well, but I seriously can't see how anyone can celebrate this election. This election has done nothing but further divide this country.
• Heretic

  

  like_that;1819335 wrote:I was speaking to a coworker of my gf this past weekend at a wedding and she asked about our celebration plans for election. I told her celebrating this election is like celebrating a successful abortion or paternity test on Maury. It didn't go over well, but I seriously can't see how anyone can celebrate this election. This election has done nothing but further divide this country.

  Yeah, "celebrate" is not the word I'd be using when people are choosing between a corrupt career politician against a thin-skinned dipshit.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Just got a bill from the company of my mother's home visiting RN. Keep in mind this is for a visit that takes about 30 minutes, with most of that time the nurse is punching in already known information into her laptop. (meds, daily routines, who is the GP, etc.)
  
  Home Visit: $424.36
  Lab-Chemistry: $22.00
  Laboratory: $30.00
  Medical: $55.00
  
  Total: $531.36
  
  Now, the copay for this amounts to only about $40. But the critical point is that the actual cost of the home visit has almost completely doubled. The rest of the fees have stayed about the same.
  
  There is no reason why that item has doubled. No explanation stated anywhere on the bill. When I called the number provided, the woman told me that the price for that item just went up and it was the going rate. No other explanation given there, either, besides that.
  
  Unreal.
• QuakerOats

  The two parties to the transaction, the patient and the provider, have been relegated to the bench, while BIG government intervention and distorted insurance markets take center stage. You could not plan for greater disaster.
  
  Until the ultimate buyer of the service (patient) is dealing directly with the provider of the service (doctor) in order to drive competitiveness, we will have issues. Unfortunately the path the democrats chose is the worst path possible, for everyone.
• thavoice

  like_that;1819335 wrote:I was speaking to a coworker of my gf this past weekend at a wedding and she asked about our celebration plans for election. I told her celebrating this election is like celebrating a successful abortion or paternity test on Maury. It didn't go over well, but I seriously can't see how anyone can celebrate this election. This election has done nothing but further divide this country.

  I dont think I have ever felt the need or reason to celebrate any elections and I think I have been around for more of them than you have.
  Unless you worked very closely with the campaign....i dont even see why?
• FatHobbit

  

  QuakerOats;1821792 wrote:The two parties to the transaction, the patient and the provider, have been relegated to the bench, while BIG government intervention and distorted insurance markets take center stage. You could not plan for greater disaster.
  
  Until the ultimate buyer of the service (patient) is dealing directly with the provider of the service (doctor) in order to drive competitiveness, we will have issues. Unfortunately the path the democrats chose is the worst path possible, for everyone.

  Using CenterBHSFan's example above, which part of the increase in cost is insurance market /big govt responsible for? Healthcare costs have been skyrocketing for some time and I find it interesting providers are not being held responsible for what they are charging.
• QuakerOats

  Ultimately, all the costs would decline if the patients were the ones directly pricing and paying for services.
  
  It is not a difficult concept.
  
  Imagine the ridiculous distortions and cost increases if you were not in charge of deciding who/what/where/when/how much to perform repairs and maintenance on your car.
• sleeper

  

  QuakerOats;1821885 wrote:Ultimately, all the costs would decline if the patients were the ones directly pricing and paying for services.
  
  It is not a difficult concept.
  
  Imagine the ridiculous distortions and cost increases if you were not in charge of deciding who/what/where/when/how much to perform repairs and maintenance on your car.

  What's the price of emergency brain surgery to remove a fatal tumor that's busted a blood vessel in your brain?
  
  Price that please.
• QuakerOats

  Now that is what 'insurance' is for.
  
  Unfortunately, BIG government involvement has now rendered such insurance UNaffordable.
  
  Go figure.
• BoatShoes

  HitsRus;1819309 wrote:^^^unless you return to that, it is inevitable that we will fracture as a country as well. Are we all that polarized, or is it just a few that scream louder and get all the attention?

  From the who regularly posts about how Democrats are destroying the country.
• BoatShoes

  QuakerOats;1821902 wrote:Now that is what 'insurance' is for.
  
  Unfortunately, BIG government involvement has now rendered such insurance UNaffordable.
  
  Go figure.

  Keep in mind this is QuakerOats arguing for high deductible catastrophic insurance while he complains about high deductibles from Obummecare.
  
  He so conveniently fails to grasp that in the free marker insurance companies devised every scheme they could not to cover people who got the sort illness Sleeper writes about and blamed pre-existing conditions.
• BoatShoes

  QuakerOats;1821885 wrote:Ultimately, all the costs would decline if the patients were the ones directly pricing and paying for services.
  
  It is not a difficult concept.
  
  Imagine the ridiculous distortions and cost increases if you were not in charge of deciding who/what/where/when/how much to perform repairs and maintenance on your car.

  The demand for car maintenance is highly elastic.
  
  Demand for healthcare is highly inelastic and gets even more inelastic thr more desperate people become.
• HitsRus

  

  BoatShoes;1822239 wrote:From the who regularly posts about how Democrats are destroying the country.

  Stop.
  Democrats?....I said Progressives, and there is a big difference. I decry extremists in both parties. I have railed against the angry voices from the right too.
• gut

  BoatShoes;1822242 wrote: Demand for healthcare is highly inelastic and gets even more inelastic thr more desperate people become.

  Yes, but the price is still determined by supply.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  HitsRus;1822248 wrote:Stop.
  Democrats?....I said Progressives, and there is a big difference. I decry extremists in both parties. I have railed against the angry voices from the right too.

  That's an inconvenient truth, you know :laugh:
• QuakerOats

  BoatShoes;1822241 wrote:Keep in mind this is QuakerOats arguing for high deductible catastrophic insurance while he complains about high deductibles from Obummecare.
  
  He so conveniently fails to grasp that in the free marker insurance companies devised every scheme they could not to cover people who got the sort illness Sleeper writes about and blamed pre-existing conditions.

  
  
  Mind numbing.
• HitsRus

  

  BoatShoes;1822239 wrote:From the who regularly posts about how Democrats are destroying the country.

  to which I replied:

  Stop.
  Democrats?....I said Progressives, and there is a big difference. I decry extremists in both parties. I have railed against the angry voices from the right too.

  
  http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441814/robert-curry-common-sense-nation-unlocking-forgotten-power-american-idea
  
  Just so you know.