obamaKare: the destruction begins

• HitsRus

  

  BoatShoes;1818889 wrote:Complains about dems dividing the country when our slogan is stronger together and his red as fuck county will vote in droves for Donald Fsrking Trump who has literally caused the re-emergence of white nationalism stomped out by neoconservatism 50 years ago.
  
  I think you are projecting. #StrongerTogether #WhiteMenWithHer 

  Trump caused the resurgence? haha. the "resurgence" as you call it was a backlash to our "leaders" lying to us and forcing their regressive agenda down everybody's throat. Trump was merely the result. Unfortunately for all of us, this means we will continue to get at least another 4 years of the same shit.
• QuakerOats

  BoatShoes;1818879 wrote:It wasn't bamas plan for it to fail. Any dem who says so is wrong.
  
  Now he could have made it better if he hadn't been so obsessed with the deficit which the GOP doesnt really care about see: Donald Trump and his $4 trillion deficit proposals.

  
  I just love it when the people who just added $10 TRILLION to the debt in less than 8 years spew their propaganda about Trump's plan adding $4 trillion. Shameless bastards; disgusting. Sit the fuck down, and shut up.
• QuakerOats

  HitsRus;1818894 wrote:Like I said, ObamaKare was a lie, and a baldfaced one at that. Congratulations on electing leaders that lie to your face and take you for the sucker you are.

  
  And because of the lie, millions and millions are being absolutely crushed, and libs still don't get it, or just don't give a shit.
  
  It is unbelievable.
• rocketalum

  QuakerOats;1818912 wrote:I just love it when the people who just added $10 TRILLION to the debt in less than 8 years spew their propaganda about Trump's plan adding $4 trillion. Shameless bastards; disgusting. Sit the fuck down, and shut up.

  Agree that it's laughable for Dem's to decry $4T in deficit spending. What I do think is valid though is that it comes across as pretty damn disingenuous when you set yourself up as the party (particularly this tea party movement) of deficit hawks but then trot out a plan that adds $4T to the debt.
  
  As I've said before Fiscal Conservatism is dead. Everyone spends money we don't have it's just on what and how much where the difference lies.
• BoatShoes

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1818453 wrote:Not only is single payer inevitable, it's the only option that will work.

  Plenty of other options besides single payer. Not an easy issue. France and Switzerland and Masschusetts have had success w/o Single Payer. Singapore model also interesting.
• sleeper

  

  BoatShoes;1818881 wrote:You have a strange definition of massive failure. It has had hige net winners...20 million people with coverage, cancer survivors cannot be denied coverage, etc.
  
  However the sick and poor people doing better has been accompanied by employers and and insurers shifting those costs onto average citizens of mediocre health, etc.
  
  It is a mixed bag IMHO.

  It also did nothing to address the 'game' healthcare providers play with medical costs billed to insurance companies. One of the reasons a Tylenol pill costs $100 at the hospital is to A)Cover the alleged uninsured who paid nothing for that pill and B) As the beginning of a negotiation game with the insurance company on the final bill. Now that Obamacare solved A by getting the uninsured insurance, the part B needs to be stamped out.
  
  That's why I think single payer will absolutely kill costs across the board. It'll cannibalize the over billing practice in favor of healthcare providers that understand their costs and how to work with a single negotiator(the government) to obtain a reasonable return on the service they provide.
• sleeper

  

  BoatShoes;1818889 wrote:Complains about dems dividing the country when our slogan is stronger together and his red as fuck county will vote in droves for Donald Fsrking Trump who has literally caused the re-emergence of white nationalism stomped out by neoconservatism 50 years ago.
  
  I think you are projecting. #StrongerTogether #WhiteMenWithHer 

  Stronger together means "Together let's blame white men for all of our problems"
• CenterBHSFan

  

  sleeper;1818927 wrote:Stronger together means "Together let's blame white men for all of our problems"

  lol
• FatHobbit

  

  sleeper;1818926 wrote: That's why I think single payer will absolutely kill costs across the board.

  Single payer will cut costs because they will tell providers how much they can charge. I always find it amusing when when people blame insurance for rising medical costs. The providers are charging more, not the insurance companies.
• sleeper

  

  FatHobbit;1819086 wrote:Single payer will cut costs because they will tell providers how much they can charge. I always find it amusing when when people blame insurance for rising medical costs. The providers are charging more, not the insurance companies.

  Correct.
• QuakerOats

  FatHobbit;1819086 wrote:Single payer will cut costs because they will tell providers how much they can charge.

  
  
  Stunningly incorrect.
• QuakerOats

  [h=3]Millions Choose To Pay Penalty Rather Than Buy Health Insurance.[/h]The New York Times (10/26, A1, Pear, Subscription Publication) reports that while the Affordable Care Act’s architects believed “a tax penalty for those who remain uninsured” would serve as “a blunt instrument” to force people to buy insurance through the online marketplaces, it has not worked as planned, “and that is at least partly to blame for soaring premiums next year on some of the health law’s insurance exchanges.” Young and healthy consumers, “who are badly needed to make the exchanges work,” have found that in some cases it is “cheaper to pay the Internal Revenue Service than an insurance company charging large premiums, with huge deductibles.” According to the IRS, “8.1 million returns included penalty payments for people who went without insurance in 2014,” and a &#8220reliminary report on the latest tax-filing season, tabulating data through April of this year, said that 5.6 million returns included penalties averaging $442 per return for people uninsured in 2015.”
  
  
  
  
  
  Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent (regardless of whether the policy was based on a house of lies or not)
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  QuakerOats;1819108 wrote:Stunningly incorrect.

  then what will happen, genius?
• BoatShoes

  sleeper;1818927 wrote:Stronger together means "Together let's blame white men for all of our problems"

  I'll give you this, many white dudes have this perception for sure and perception is reality. Dems definitely are out to lunch with how bad the brand is with white men. I wouod say net worse than Trump is tarnishing GOP brand with women.
  
  And frankly I think this is really bad for dems but it is all about targeting and turning out minorities and women. When they lose in off year elections they remedy is always "didn't get the turnout!".
• BoatShoes

  FatHobbit;1819086 wrote:Single payer will cut costs because they will tell providers how much they can charge. I always find it amusing when when people blame insurance for rising medical costs. The providers are charging more, not the insurance companies.

  Problem is making sure the supply-side doesn't suffer if medicare tries to clamp down too hard.
• BoatShoes

  HitsRus;1818900 wrote:Trump caused the resurgence? haha. the "resurgence" as you call it was a backlash to our "leaders" lying to us and forcing their regressive agenda down everybody's throat. Trump was merely the result. Unfortunately for all of us, this means we will continue to get at least another 4 years of the same shit.

  It is so funny how you talk about uniting the country and yet look at the way you talk about dems. You think we are evil rather than people who are mostly decent citizens with different ideas about what is good for the country, etc.
• BoatShoes

  QuakerOats;1818912 wrote:I just love it when the people who just added $10 TRILLION to the debt in less than 8 years spew their propaganda about Trump's plan adding $4 trillion. Shameless bastards; disgusting. Sit the fuck down, and shut up.

  I am saying it is you folks who are funny cus you are the ones who pretend to act like it is so outrageous and then vote for trump.
  
  (Ironically of Course we need larger deficits like Trump's plans call for IMHO it is just too bad Trump is a complete and utter buffoon who is unfit to president lol)
• CenterBHSFan

  

  BoatShoes;1819143 wrote:It is so funny how you talk about uniting the country and yet look at the way you talk about dems. You think we are evil rather than people who are mostly decent citizens with different ideas about what is good for the country, etc.

  Do you hold an office?
• BoatShoes

  like_that;1818876 wrote:Where do you see that? I am looking at healthcare.gov for plans for the citizen you just described.
  
  I'm not defending the GOP and their plans to fix healthcare. My point is Obamacare was a half ass plan at that was shoved down our throats so they could tie healthcare reform to obamas and the Dems' legacy.

  I found it on Healthcare.gov for Ohio with a single 30 yr old man earning $33k
• BoatShoes

  rocketalum;1818918 wrote:Agree that it's laughable for Dem's to decry $4T in deficit spending. What I do think is valid though is that it comes across as pretty damn disingenuous when you set yourself up as the party (particularly this tea party movement) of deficit hawks but then trot out a plan that adds $4T to the debt.
  
  As I've said before Fiscal Conservatism is dead. Everyone spends money we don't have it's just on what and how much where the difference lies.

  This what I am trying to say. I am for more deficit spending and will vote for Hillary who thinks adding a penny to the outstanding supply of treasuries is bad. I disagree. But, she is competent and sane unlike Trump.
• like_that

  

  BoatShoes;1819149 wrote:I found it on Healthcare.gov for Ohio with a single 30 yr old man earning $33k

  
  I did the same thing, and see nothing comparable to what you said. Maybe I am reading it incorrectly. Can you provide a screen shot?
• sleeper

  

  BoatShoes;1819139 wrote:I'll give you this, many white dudes have this perception for sure and perception is reality. Dems definitely are out to lunch with how bad the brand is with white men. I wouod say net worse than Trump is tarnishing GOP brand with women.
  
  And frankly I think this is really bad for dems but it is all about targeting and turning out minorities and women. When they lose in off year elections they remedy is always "didn't get the turnout!".

  It works though because when you indoctrinate people to thinking only men can be sexist and only whites can be racist it gives you a self-imposed moral high ground.
  
  Either fall in line to their theories or you yourself are racist/sexist. The brand doesn't need white males, just needs to shame them into voting D so they are not perceived as racist/sexist.
• QuakerOats

  BoatShoes;1819140 wrote:Problem is making sure the supply-side doesn't suffer if medicare tries to clamp down too hard.

  If government intervention and distortion of markets were absent, there wouldn't be this problem. We see it in medicare and medicaid already. What next, full scale communism where the state forces providers to provide care for whatever the state dictates?
• QuakerOats

  BoatShoes;1819146 wrote:I am saying it is you folks who are funny cus you are the ones who pretend to act like it is so outrageous and then vote for trump.
  
  (Ironically of Course we need larger deficits like Trump's plans call for IMHO it is just too bad Trump is a complete and utter buffoon who is unfit to president lol)

  His is the plan that will lead to economic growth, and absent selling off all federal assets, that is the ONLY way to start working our way out of the treasonous debt that obama/clinton have imprisoned The People with.
• like_that

  

  
  
  LOL