obamaKare: the destruction begins

• BoatShoes

  jmog;1529847 wrote:So are you willing to finally admit that no one has wanted it no matter if you call it ACA or Obamacare the numbers still show a 15-17% difference between 'against' and 'for'?

  I Simply think that is irrelevant to consider polling on whether people support the ACA or Obamacare as ignorance of what the ACA or Obamacare actually is all about is just as high as the bills lack of support. You've got political junkies on this site still saying the law is things that it is not, for example.
  
  The Obama Motherhood is Awesome bill is guaranteed to have at least half the country against it.
  
  Get back to me in a year.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1529863 wrote:Boat, is the POTUS direct and obvious lie, not even just spin pure lie, that was quoted Monday night denying he said "If you like your health-care plan, you will be able to keep your health-care plan, period"...is there any type of punishment allowed for that?
  
  Should lying to the American people, caught on video, be impeachable?

  '
  
  Sure, if you think that rises to high crimes and misdemeanors be my guest to call Jim Renacci and encourage him to impeach the president. I'm sure majority of the American People will be right behind you.
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1529869 wrote:I Simply think that is irrelevant to consider polling on whether people support the ACA or Obamacare as ignorance of what the ACA or Obamacare actually is all about is just as high as the bills lack of support. You've got political junkies on this site still saying the law is things that it is not, for example.
  
  The Obama Motherhood is Awesome bill is guaranteed to have at least half the country against it.
  
  Get back to me in a year.

  You just can't admit when you are wrong, can you?
  
  You stated that it was more "50/50" when it is called ACA and when I prove you wrong with actual poll data you change your stance to it not being important since people don't know what it is.
  
  Now you sound as crazy as Pelosi when she said "We have to pass it to see what's in it" you are just saying "Let this abomination to for a year and see if it gets better".
  
  Why not not stop it before it gets worse?
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1529872 wrote:'
  
  Sure, if you think that rises to high crimes and misdemeanors be my guest to call Jim Renacci and encourage him to impeach the president. I'm sure majority of the American People will be right behind you.

  I asked for your opinion on what the recourse or punishment should be for a blatant and obvious lie on video. I didn't ask for a smart ass comment.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1529893 wrote:You just can't admit when you are wrong, can you?
  
  You stated that it was more "50/50" when it is called ACA and when I prove you wrong with actual poll data you change your stance to it not being important since people don't know what it is.
  
  Now you sound as crazy as Pelosi when she said "We have to pass it to see what's in it" you are just saying "Let this abomination to for a year and see if it gets better".
  
  Why not not stop it before it gets worse?

  
  I think it is wrong to say that America does not want, in the aggregate, the changes in public policy that are being brought forth by the Affordable Care Act. I simply do not believe polling on the matter is very informative. Sorry. What more do you want me to say? Even liberals say they oppose the law when asked blankly because they want socialism, etc. That is why Pelosi said that crazy line anyway that Republicans/Conservatives have used as a punching bag...because there is so much misinformation, demagoguery mixed in with incompetence...from the president and the people oppose the law as well.
  
  I think it's actually only going to get better. Especially if and when the website actually works. I think a good analogy to the initial rate shocks would be the surge in inflation initially after the Nixon Shock. Healthcare costs overall have slowed since 2008 and they were rising meteorically. I think it is silly that you can only have plans with 10 essential benefits, etc. changing health insurance from insurance to pre-paid healthcare but I don't think it's the end of the world that it's going to be. As I've predicted earlier, i think it will end up being popular like Medicare did.
• like_that

  

  I always wondered how it was possible for people to blindly follow hitler. After seeing boatshoes posts it all makes sense.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1529895 wrote:I asked for your opinion on what the recourse or punishment should be for a blatant and obvious lie on video. I didn't ask for a smart ass comment.

  If I were in congress I would not vote to impeach a president over a campaign line, no.
• BoatShoes

  like_that;1529902 wrote:I always wondered how it was possible for people to blindly follow hitler. After seeing boatshoes posts it all makes sense.

  I have criticized Obama on this website more than most of our fellow conservatives have criticized Republicans. Indeed, in this thread I have criticized him. Again, I'm sorry that some of you are so aghast when there is a poster who doesn't merely join in on conservative/republican anti-Obama in all instances because he's t0tally the WORST circle-jerking.
  
  But yeah, you're right, not thinking that the Affordable Care Act is a horrific monstrosity is totally like following Hitler! LOL.
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1529904 wrote:If I were in congress I would not vote to impeach a president over a campaign line, no.

  He was either not campaigning since he already was President trying to get a bill passed, or you are agreeing with conservatives and saying he is always in campaign mode and not actually governing.
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1529901 wrote:I think it is wrong to say that America does not want, in the aggregate, the changes in public policy that are being brought forth by the Affordable Care Act. I simply do not believe polling on the matter is very informative. Sorry. What more do you want me to say? Even liberals say they oppose the law when asked blankly because they want socialism, etc. That is why Pelosi said that crazy line anyway that Republicans/Conservatives have used as a punching bag...because there is so much misinformation, demagoguery mixed in with incompetence...from the president and the people oppose the law as well.
  
  I think it's actually only going to get better. Especially if and when the website actually works. I think a good analogy to the initial rate shocks would be the surge in inflation initially after the Nixon Shock. Healthcare costs overall have slowed since 2008 and they were rising meteorically. I think it is silly that you can only have plans with 10 essential benefits, etc. changing health insurance from insurance to pre-paid healthcare but I don't think it's the end of the world that it's going to be. As I've predicted earlier, i think it will end up being popular like Medicare did.

  So is your stance that people in general are too ignorant of the law to know if they want it or not and the liberals know better than the actual people?
• like_that

  

  BoatShoes;1529909 wrote:I have criticized Obama on this website more than most of our fellow conservatives have criticized Republicans. Indeed, in this thread I have criticized him. Again, I'm sorry that some of you are so aghast when there is a poster who doesn't merely join in on conservative/republican anti-Obama in all instances because he's t0tally the WORST circle-jerking.
  
  But yeah, you're right, not thinking that the Affordable Care Act is a horrific monstrosity is totally like following Hitler! LOL.

  LOL you are going out of your way to defend the man'a blatant lie. Not only did he lie three years ago but now he is even further lying by pretending that's what he didn't say, despite the fact there is AUDIO AND VIDEO evidence his speech. Please just stop, you are a blind supporter and it's not even debatable.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1529910 wrote:He was either not campaigning since he already was President trying to get a bill passed, or you are agreeing with conservatives and saying he is always in campaign mode and not actually governing.

  LOL. Indeed the world is totally that black and white! You're a smart guy. You can do better than this. You know its possible to govern and make a sales pitch while governing.
  
  Dude. It's a campaign line designed to get people to support the law. I personally think he should've been more measured or nuanced in his use of such and/or not included the 10 essential benefits and/or been more upfront about potential premium hikes but I'm not going to impeach the man if I'm in Congress when his statement was true as it applies to the overwhelming majority of the population. But, I think you'll see a very healthy drop in public support for the man.
• BoatShoes

  like_that;1529912 wrote:LOL you are going out of your way to defend the man'a blatant lie. Not only did he lie three years ago but now he is even further lying by pretending that's what he didn't say, despite the fact there is AUDIO AND VIDEO evidence his speech. Please just stop, you are a blind supporter and it's not even debatable.

  Oh please. I said I wouldn't impeach the guy! But conservatives can feel free! LOL. The guy also said he wouldn't raise taxes on families who earn less than 250,000k! I guess he should've chosen not to use a neat-sounding campaign quip and said, "Well if you choose not to buy health insurance and you make $30k I'm going to raise taxes on you!" LYING, MALCIOUS BASTARD!
• like_that

  

  BoatShoes;1529918 wrote:Oh please. I said I wouldn't impeach the guy! But conservatives can feel free! LOL. The guy also said he wouldn't raise taxes on families who earn less than 250,000k! I guess he should've chosen not to use a neat-sounding campaign quip and said, "Well if you choose not to buy health insurance and you make $30k I'm going to raise taxes on you!" LYING, MALCIOUS BASTARD!

  The dude no question lied to gain more votes, and you simply spin the lie to favor him. It's just comical. Please keep it up for the laughs.
• BoatShoes

  like_that;1529925 wrote:The dude no question lied to gain more votes, and you simply spin the lie to favor him. It's just comical. Please keep it up for the laughs.

  So we're going with being all pissed off over what politicians say on the campaign trail that lies now right? Maybe I should think Mitt Romney is/was a liar because he said his tax plan was going to be revenue neutral or because Paul Ryan published a budget projecting 2% unemployment or John Boehner for saying the deficit is out of control when it's been dropping at the fastest rate since the demobilization after the Korean War....etc. These are all lies worthy of righteous contempt I dare say!
  
  Who knew that politicians exaggerate their claims to gain votes??? Obama should resign immediately. I already said Obama should've been more upfront about the law and not just been a salesmen. But it's not like he would've been doing so on a fair playing field with the Republicans lying about the law at every turn, yes?
  
  Let's see the entire Republican party has been calling Obamacare a Socialist Take Over of Healthcare and this is untrue by definition. Literally by definition. The Republican Party and it's lies about the ACA have no contempt from the people with their jimmy's rustled over Obummer's 95% true claim/prediction. The VA is a socialist healthcare system for Veteran's and has the full support of Republicans for example and Obummercare is nothing like it at all.
  
  But you know what, that is part of the game. I'm not going to cry because the Tea Party Politicians "lied" about Obamacare to their constituents, about what the bill is really all about. So, get back to me when you have even an inkling of desire to condemn so-called "lying" by politicians of all political stripes.
  
  Unfortunately exaggerated claims and lies seem to be part of the game of politics. We don't have rational debates in this country. We have a bunch of people saying that Social Security and Medicare are going bankrupt both demonstrably false lies and that Obamacare socializes medicine, false by definition and then Obama lying by overselling his law and a failing to qualify his statements about people keeping their healthcare plans. Something tells me you're less perturbed about the lies that don't come from obama.
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1529913 wrote:LOL. Indeed the world is totally that black and white! You're a smart guy. You can do better than this. You know its possible to govern and make a sales pitch while governing.
  
  Dude. It's a campaign line designed to get people to support the law. I personally think he should've been more measured or nuanced in his use of such and/or not included the 10 essential benefits and/or been more upfront about potential premium hikes but I'm not going to impeach the man if I'm in Congress when his statement was true as it applies to the overwhelming majority of the population. But, I think you'll see a very healthy drop in public support for the man.

  The bolded part is false, it does not apply to the overwhelming majority. More than 50% of people who bought their own insurance plans are losing their plans. A vast majority of people's plans are going up in costs when he said that the "average family will save $2500/yr".
  
  There is no way you can say that his 'promises' are true for the 'vast majority' without being someone who is blindly supporting the man. You are too smart to make that statement when you can easily see it is false with the data coming in.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1529941 wrote:The bolded part is false, it does not apply to the overwhelming majority. More than 50% of people who bought their own insurance plans are losing their plans. A vast majority of people's plans are going up in costs when he said that the "average family will save $2500/yr".
  
  There is no way you can say that his 'promises' are true for the 'vast majority' without being someone who is blindly supporting the man. You are too smart to make that statement when you can easily see it is false with the data coming in.

  It is true that a majority of people will keep their plans. As QCB pointed out this is is misleading because the cost for the same plan has gone up for a lot of folks.
  
  If Obama would've been 100% correct he would've said, "People in the individual market will lose their plans if their insurance companies make any changes. So, about 3% of the population will not be able to keep their plans in the individual market. 85% of the people with group plans will be able to keep those plans but there's a good chance it'll have higher premiums because you can no longer be thrown off when you get sick or have caps on coverage. How much the average family will save or pay likely depends on what type of community rating was already employed by your state before the ACA."
• Manhattan Buckeye

  "but there's a good chance it'll have higher premiums because you can no longer be thrown off when you get sick or have caps on coverage"
  
  Let me fix this for you. There is a definite chance you'll pay a higher premium because you'll be buying coverage you don't need...like maternity coverage, mental health and other crap that drives up costs, to pay for others.
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1529948 wrote:It is true that a majority of people will keep their plans. As QCB pointed out this is is misleading because the cost for the same plan has gone up for a lot of folks.
  
  If Obama would've been 100% correct he would've said, "People in the individual market will lose their plans if their insurance companies make any changes. So, about 3% of the population will not be able to keep their plans in the individual market. 85% of the people with group plans will be able to keep those plans but there's a good chance it'll have higher premiums because you can no longer be thrown off when you get sick or have caps on coverage. How much the average family will save or pay likely depends on what type of community rating was already employed by your state before the ACA."

  You are so far into the spin it's not even close to reality anymore.
  
  Boat, eventually you'll have to admit this is a complete abomination of a law and definitely of implementation, as well as the country was completely lied to about what would happen when it took affect.
• pmoney25

  

  My company is having all management go up to Cleveland for a meeting with HR this Thursday. one can only guess what this is about considering open enrollment starts this week. It won't effect me since I'm on my wife's plan which I'm sure will go up as well.
• gut

  BoatShoes;1529736 wrote:... "Europe's problems are all structural cuz of s0c1aLIsm DEeeeeerrrp!! Go read an economics book idiot!!!"

  And I didn't think you ever learned anything here. Now the next step is for you to actually pick-up and READ an economics book. But that might lead you to start questioning the BS your liberal overlords are feeding you...
• Devils Advocate

  

  I find it amazing that the gubmint can record and track 3 billion communications a day, but cannot produce a website to force feed 20 million people an overpriced insurance policy.
• gut

  Devils Advocate;1530072 wrote:I find it amazing that the gubmint can record and track 3 billion communications a day, but cannot produce a website to force feed 20 million people an overpriced insurance policy.

  How much would it have cost, and how difficult the modification, to just call up EBAY and use their site as a base?
  
  I'll give Obama credit - he's loyal. Has he fired anyone for anything in his 5 years?
• QuakerOats

  obamacare now equals CRIMINAL FRAUD.
  
  
  
  
  Change we can believe in ....
• BGFalcons82

  

  Amazing compilation. 36 times the Liar-In-Chief promised those that like their plan can keep their plan "period". Some as recent as 2 months ago.
  
  http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/11/06/36-times-obama-lied-your-health-plan-died-…
  
  Obama lied and your health plan died. And yet...the media and Obama nut-lickers are running around claiming he didn't lie. It takes a special kind of moron to defend this garbage...kind of like the ones running around Germany in the mid-1930's.
  
  This shit is impeachable.