Edward Snowden American hero or Government treason

• Belly35

  

  In poker terms “I’m all in for this guy” he did the right thing. This is government agenda working against the Constitution and against its Citizens … Wrong is Wrong..
  
  We need more people like this to keep government held at bay. One reason the government is so intense to find this guy is to make public display of the punishment so others like him will not be compelled to do the same. Should we fear our government or should government fear the citizen and truth? The real punishment should be to those in government that orchestrated this agenda in the first place. This department needs to be investigated and prosecution to those in control of the operation. They are the real criminal… not this lone American Hero…
  
  All Americans should take a lesson from this guy. Stand up, speak out and call out those in business, work place, government and political office who are doing wrong against American people, Company you work for and the Constitution.
  
  Here we have a honest and truthful citizen concerned about protecting our rights vs. the Community Organizer, Administration, HLS, DOJ, IRS and EPA lying everyday, with holding information and defrauding the American People.. WTF have has this great nation become?
  
  Our weapons to maintain freedoms are guns (2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment), whistle blower (Brave Americans), exposing the truth (Freedom of Speech) and those who believe in the American Constitution.
• Tiernan

  His Justice dept. connected mommy got this HS drop-out slacker - hacker a $200K / yr job and for some reason which I'm sure will come out he's squealing like the little bitch he is. His "did it for America" BS doesn't ring true with me Belly. We will see.
• Devils Advocate

  

  Yep, we need protected from the IRA.
• Tiernan

  Devils Advocate;1456031 wrote:Yep, we need protected from the IRA.

  What do Irish rebels have to do with this?
• Belly35

  

  Devils Advocate;1456031 wrote:Yep, we need protected from the IRA.

  corrected but a good catch ... "a" and "s" are side by side...
• Belly35

  

  Tiernan;1456030 wrote:His Justice dept. connected mommy got this HS drop-out slacker - hacker a $200K / yr job and for some reason which I'm sure will come out he's squealing like the little bitch he is. His "did it for America" BS doesn't ring true with me Belly. We will see.

  Whatever the reason for exposing the truth and presenting the wrong is not the issue ... Wrong is Wrong and should be told to the American People ... if the Politicians and our Government can’t be trusted to do what is right under the Constitution and the Rights of its citizen … we need more people with the framework of government to step forward.
  
  The issue here is not Edward Snowden action and reasoning the media and government will make it that, to cover up the real wrong. That just the smoke screen and misdirection methods to advoid dealing with a more serious problem .
  
  The real issue is who authorized this program and why?
• WebFire

  Tiernan;1456030 wrote:His Justice dept. connected mommy got this HS drop-out slacker - hacker a $200K / yr job and for some reason which I'm sure will come out he's squealing like the little bitch he is. His "did it for America" BS doesn't ring true with me Belly. We will see.

  So because he was given a job he may not have been qualified for, he should be quiet about government wrongdoings?
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Belly35;1456024 wrote:In poker terms “I’m all in for this guy” he did the right thing. This is government agenda working against the Constitution and against its Citizens … Wrong is Wrong..
  
  We need more people like this to keep government held at bay. One reason the government is so intense to find this guy is to make public display of the punishment so others like him will not be compelled to do the same. Should we fear our government or should government fear the citizen and truth? The real punishment should be to those in government that orchestrated this agenda in the first place. This department needs to be investigated and prosecution to those in control of the operation. They are the real criminal… not this lone American Hero…
  
  All Americans should take a lesson from this guy. Stand up, speak out and call out those in business, work place, government and political office who are doing wrong against American people, Company you work for and the Constitution.
  
  Here we have a honest and truthful citizen concerned about protecting our rights vs. the Community Organizer, Administration, HLS, DOJ, IRS and EPA lying everyday, with holding information and defrauding the American People.. WTF have has this great nation become?
  
  Our weapons to maintain freedoms are guns (2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment), whistle blower (Brave Americans), exposing the truth (Freedom of Speech) and those who believe in the American Constitution.

  Whoa, whoa, whoa.
  Where the hell was this for Bradley Manning?
  Explain to me the difference?
  Or, what about Daniel Ellsberg who released the Pentagon Papers?
  Or, Joe Darby, who released info on Abu Ghraib?
  
  I largely agree with you, we need people to speak out against what may be awful policies, but I failed to read the same language and argument during the Wikileaks, or other releases of information.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Belly35;1456037 wrote:Whatever the reason for exposing the truth and presenting the wrong is not the issue ... Wrong is Wrong and should be told to the American People ... if the Politicians and our Government can’t be trusted to do what is right under the Constitution and the Rights of its citizen … we need more people with the framework of government to step forward.
  
  The issue here is not Edward Snowden action and reasoning the media and government will make it that, to cover up the real wrong. That just the smoke screen and misdirection methods to advoid dealing with a more serious problem .
  
  The real issue is who authorized this program and why?

  So, you supported the release of the Pentagon Papers?
• justincredible

  

  Hero. Anyone claiming treason and/or that he is a traitor is a statist moron.
• Tiernan

  Not claiming he is a traitor but am claiming this stinks like a dead carp in the sun. Giving us the old "I did it for what my country used to be..." routine from somewhere in Hong Kong is setting off all kinds of warning bells with me. He got his job thru nepotism and being knowingly unqualified didn't seem to bother his sensibilities when he cashed the $200K pay-checks. This guy may not be a traitor but he sure as hell is not a hero either.
• gport_tennis

  Tiernan;1456057 wrote:Not claiming he is a traitor but am claiming this stinks like a dead carp in the sun. Giving us the old "I did it for what my country used to be..." routine from somewhere in Hong Kong is setting off all kinds of warning bells with me. He got his job thru nepotism and being knowingly unqualified didn't seem to bother his sensibilities when he cashed the $200K pay-checks. This guy may not be a traitor but he sure as hell is not a hero either.

  
  He didn't get his job in the CIA because mommy hired him. He got it through being talented and a hard worker. Every article basically points out that he is a highly skilled programmer
• SportsAndLady

  

  The guy was making 200k a year living in Hawaii with his girlfriend. He gave that up to expose government shadiness. Of course he's a fucking hero.
• gport_tennis

  I did read that his gf is an "acrobatic pole dancer". Thought that was a funny discription
• gut

  SportsAndLady;1456085 wrote:The guy was making 200k a year living in Hawaii with his girlfriend. He gave that up to expose government shadiness. Of course he's a ****ing hero.

  It probably all sounds fine and dandy, unless one has an Asian fetish...(in which case, he's in the right place now)
• gut

  But in all seriousness, let's stop short of calling him a hero. If he ends up taking asylum from Russia or China, it's almost certainly a quid pro quo involving spying or trading of secrets. That would also make him a traitor.
  
  I'm not going to fault a guy for wanting to keep some sort of freedom, but maybe he hasn't thought this through. I'm thinking maybe Cuba, or some place in South America.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Tiernan;1456057 wrote:Not claiming he is a traitor but am claiming this stinks like a dead carp in the sun. Giving us the old "I did it for what my country used to be..." routine from somewhere in Hong Kong is setting off all kinds of warning bells with me. He got his job thru nepotism and being knowingly unqualified didn't seem to bother his sensibilities when he cashed the $200K pay-checks. This guy may not be a traitor but he sure as hell is not a hero either.

  gut;1456096 wrote:But in all seriousness, let's stop short of calling him a hero. If he ends up taking asylum from Russia or China, it's almost certainly a quid pro quo involving spying or trading of secrets. That would also make him a traitor.
  
  I'm not going to fault a guy for wanting to keep some sort of freedom, but maybe he hasn't thought this through. I'm thinking maybe Cuba, or some place in South America.

  I'm in this realm. He is not a saint or a sinner. He is a mix of both. We do not know his motives fully yet.
  Nor, do we understand how he was able to gain access to the program and information.
  The story has only begun on him.
• HitsRus

  

  His motives don't change the truth. I'll agree with all who say judgement is still out on whether he is a hero. To be qualified as a hero, it would need to be a brave and selfless act. If money is involved then he is not a 'hero' but nothing more than a paid informant.
• gport_tennis

  A paid informant doesn't usually go to the press to release documents and then out himself.
  
  His actions so far seem pure and transparent. Will be interesting what dirt they can dig up on him.
• queencitybuckeye

  Interesting that there are those in both the hero and traitor camps from both sides of the political spectrum.
• HitsRus

  

  ^^^I didn't say he WAS a paid informant, only that.,.. if it turns out money is involved.
• gut

  gport_tennis;1456122 wrote: His actions so far seem pure and transparent.

  Well, he has given up a lot. However, he is not a hero if he seeks to avoid the criminal charges waiting for him here. That's almost an unfair standard, but it wreaks of hypocrisy to rail against trampling or circumventing the law while doing the same thing yourself, and it seriously weakens his credibility.
  
  I would guess he knew they would track him down fairly easily, which is why he's come forward publicly. And perhaps he is just waiting it out abroad hoping to be offered immunity to testify in front of Congress. Otherwise, as it stands right now whisteblowers need to be pure and selfless, and he's something less than that.
• SportsAndLady

  

  gut;1456128 wrote:Well, he has given up a lot. However, he is not a hero if he seeks to avoid the criminal charges waiting for him here. That's almost an unfair standard, but it wreaks of hypocrisy to rail against trampling or circumventing the law while doing the same thing yourself, and it seriously weakens his credibility.
  
  I would guess he knew they would track him down fairly easily, which is why he's come forward publicly. And perhaps he is just waiting it out abroad hoping to be offered immunity to testify in front of Congress. Otherwise, as it stands right now whisteblowers need to be pure and selfless, and he's something less than that.

  
  Is it not pure and selfless to be the ONLY one to give up 200k/year, Hawaii, girlfriend, etc. of the hundred if not thousands of employees who had to know about this. All for the good of the country?
  
  It's not pure and selfless just because he's avoiding trying to be thrown in the pen?
• BoatShoes

  queencitybuckeye;1456125 wrote:Interesting that there are those in both the hero and traitor camps from both sides of the political spectrum.

  ^^I was going to say this. Doesn't happen much and I think it has lead to some good debate.
• gut

  SportsAndLady;1456132 wrote: It's not pure and selfless just because he's avoiding trying to be thrown in the pen?

  It's really not. He's outing people for "breaking the law" while simultaneously breaking it himself and seeking to avoid the consequences. In other words, guilty of the same things he's railing against them for doing.
  
  Assuming he's qualified and as good as his salary, he'll find an equivalent job. If he's not (and i.e. on his way out or being let go), it raises additional questions as to motive.