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Edward Snowden American hero or Government treason

  • gut
    Glory Days;1457109 wrote:yeah i think either he is hoping to get hong kong and china on his side by playing to them or there is more to it than just one man exposing an intelligence gathering program .
    No doubt he's trying to be an "asset" to China to avoid extradition. And from China's perspective, there's probably value just in the US not knowing what he gave them (even if he gives them nothing of actual value). I somehow doubt that news of the US cyberwarfare came as a surprise to China, but there's always political fallout when it's public knowledge.

    Also a curious disclosure given just days ago Obama was talking about this capability. Obviously an attempt to get a bit ahead of the story.
  • gut
    Here's the thing though:

    If I understand correctly, he was in this role for about 3 months. That's an incredibly short time to contemplate, and then commit this action. Also a very short-timeframe to plan, including what proof you will take and how to secretly take it.

    He's either a remarkably good (and efficient) spy, or someone else is pulling the strings. Or superiors were asking him questions and he got spooked. Saw somewhere he took this to WaPo but wouldn't wait for them to verify/fact check
  • O-Trap
    Merely out of curiosity, what is the reason for people thinking he's breaking laws and/or a spy?

    Admittedly, I haven't been following this.
  • SportsAndLady
    O-Trap;1457174 wrote:Merely out of curiosity, what is the reason for people thinking he's breaking laws and/or a spy?

    Admittedly, I haven't been following this.

    I assume for the breaking the law part, it's for releasing confidential information to the public. Fleeing the country is probably another one. I'm sure there are many more.
  • O-Trap
    SportsAndLady;1457176 wrote:I assume for the breaking the law part, it's for releasing confidential information to the public. Fleeing the country is probably another one. I'm sure there are many more.
    Well, I would think the Whistleblower Protection Acts throughout the years would mean that this isn't breaking the law. I'm no expert on that sort of thing, though.

    And as for the latter, if I thought I was going to piss off the CIA, I'd probably take a vacation, too. Seems like it might be hard to accuse him of fleeing if nobody was yet looking into him, particularly if whistleblower laws make his prior actions legal.

    Personally, I don't care about his motives.
  • gport_tennis
    O-Trap;1457174 wrote:Merely out of curiosity, what is the reason for people thinking he's breaking laws and/or a spy?

    Admittedly, I haven't been following this.

    I think he has said himself he was a spy. They sent him to Geneva I believe under a fake identity for counterintelligence or some thing along those lines
  • Midstate01
    3 separate national security leaks here in hawaii in last few months.
  • Glory Days
    O-Trap;1457180 wrote:Well, I would think the Whistleblower Protection Acts throughout the years would mean that this isn't breaking the law. I'm no expert on that sort of thing, though.

    And as for the latter, if I thought I was going to piss off the CIA, I'd probably take a vacation, too. Seems like it might be hard to accuse him of fleeing if nobody was yet looking into him, particularly if whistleblower laws make his prior actions legal.

    Personally, I don't care about his motives.
    i think he lost his whistleblower status for the way he went about things. he didnt report it to anyone, he leaked it to a newspaper etc.
  • gut
    Also, I'm not up to speed on whistleblower designation, but I'm not sure you can claim to be a whistleblower when it's not illegal. It may be ruled unconstitutional, be illegality it is not.

    Not sure if that isn't a distinction without a difference. But this could be new territory for the whole "whistleblower" concept in itself, the idea of a LEGAL albeit secret (thus avoiding constitutional scrutiny) gray area.
  • O-Trap
    Glory Days;1457710 wrote:i think he lost his whistleblower status for the way he went about things. he didnt report it to anyone, he leaked it to a newspaper etc.
    Who do you think he ought to have reported it to? The local authorities? This is the federal government he's outing.
  • SportsAndLady
    O-Trap;1458102 wrote:Who do you think he ought to have reported it to? The local authorities? This is the federal government he's outing.
    He's a police officer...probably thought he should have reported it to the Sheriff out in Hawaii LOL
  • O-Trap
    SportsAndLady;1458104 wrote:He's a police officer...probably thought he should have reported it to the Sheriff out in Hawaii LOL
    Sheriff vs. anyone who may be pissed at him.

    Um ... I know where I'd put my money.
  • Glory Days
    O-Trap;1458102 wrote:Who do you think he ought to have reported it to? The local authorities? This is the federal government he's outing.
    just because he is outing the federal govt doesnt mean he cant be a whistleblower with protections.
  • O-Trap
    Glory Days;1458179 wrote:just because he is outing the federal govt doesnt mean he cant be a whistleblower with protections.
    Local Sheriff department going to "protect him" from the CIA, FBI, etc? Forgive me if I wouldn't be comforted in his shoes under those provisions.
  • Glory Days
    O-Trap;1458236 wrote:Local Sheriff department going to "protect him" from the CIA, FBI, etc? Forgive me if I wouldn't be comforted in his shoes under those provisions.
    its not about protecting him as it as giving him his rights and due process. its like arguing a speeding ticket or whatever on the side of the road with a cop, that isnt the place or time to do it. that is what court is for.
  • Mulva
    Glory Days;1458333 wrote:its not about protecting him as it as giving him his rights and due process. its like arguing a speeding ticket or whatever on the side of the road with a cop, that isnt the place or time to do it. that is what court is for.
    A secret court approved all of the secret bullshit before it secretly happened. Trusting the courts/justice system in this country is laughable.
  • Glory Days
    Mulva;1458337 wrote:A secret court approved all of the secret bullshit before it secretly happened. Trusting the courts/justice system in this country is laughable.
    Dude's gonna end up behind bars either way. if he does things by the books as best he could, some lawyer could maybe do a little something for him. instead now he is on the run and admitting guilt everytime he talks to a reporter. he is f'd now for sure.
  • Belly35
    Glory Days;1458415 wrote:Dude's gonna end up behind bars either way. if he does things by the books as best he could, some lawyer could maybe do a little something for him. instead now he is on the run and admitting guilt everytime he talks to a reporter. he is f'd now for sure.
    Can't he plead Not Guilty. Seems that the mode of operation within the court system.... :D
  • O-Trap
    Glory Days;1458333 wrote:its not about protecting him as it as giving him his rights and due process. its like arguing a speeding ticket or whatever on the side of the road with a cop, that isnt the place or time to do it. that is what court is for.

    To HIM, it may indeed be about protection. Sorry, but if a large agency with high clearance wants you dead, I'm worried less about my day in court.
    Glory Days;1458415 wrote:Dude's gonna end up behind bars either way. if he does things by the books as best he could, some lawyer could maybe do a little something for him. instead now he is on the run and admitting guilt everytime he talks to a reporter. he is f'd now for sure.
    Admitting guilt how? And again, "on the run" takes an interesting connotation when you think someone could easily kill you. Hell, I might be on the run in that case as well. Perhaps I have less faith in our protective services than you, particularly in light of the efforts from a large federal agency.
  • pmoney25
    Truth is treason in the empire of lies.
  • Glory Days
    there was another article the other day where his girlfriend's dad was interviewed. he wasnt surprised one bit this guy did what he did because of his anti govt beliefs etc.
    O-Trap;1458486 wrote:To HIM, it may indeed be about protection. Sorry, but if a large agency with high clearance wants you dead, I'm worried less about my day in court.



    Admitting guilt how? And again, "on the run" takes an interesting connotation when you think someone could easily kill you. Hell, I might be on the run in that case as well. Perhaps I have less faith in our protective services than you, particularly in light of the efforts from a large federal agency.
    haha come on, you honestly think he would have been assasinated if he had stayed here in the states? its fun to think about in movies, but it just isnt reality.

    and no, not just being on the run makes him guilty, its what he is saying. if he goes to trial, all these interviews are coming to come back to haunt him.
  • Footwedge
    ptown_trojans_1;1456040 wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa.
    Where the hell was this for Bradley Manning?
    Explain to me the difference?
    Or, what about Daniel Ellsberg who released the Pentagon Papers?
    Or, Joe Darby, who released info on Abu Ghraib?

    I largely agree with you, we need people to speak out against what may be awful policies, but I failed to read the same language and argument during the Wikileaks, or other releases of information.
    Snowden and Manning are both American heroes. Only partisan political hacks can separate the 2 for what they did.
  • O-Trap
    Glory Days;1458564 wrote:haha come on, you honestly think he would have been assasinated if he had stayed here in the states? its fun to think about in movies, but it just isnt reality.
    Ah yeah, someone who ends up on the wrong side of clout at the CIA or NSA has nothing to fear. After all, there's never been any rumors of illicit activities from those agencies.

    And it's not like they have the swing to kill someone who makes their workings' existence inconveniently known.

    Come on, man. I'm no die-hard conspiracy theorist, but it's just naive to blindly suckle from the "the feds are automatically the good guys" tit.
    Glory Days;1458564 wrote:and no, not just being on the run makes him guilty, its what he is saying. if he goes to trial, all these interviews are coming to come back to haunt him.
    Humor me. What, specifically, has he said that makes him "guilty," and of what would it make him guilty?
  • Glory Days
    O-Trap;1458805 wrote:Ah yeah, someone who ends up on the wrong side of clout at the CIA or NSA has nothing to fear. After all, there's never been any rumors of illicit activities from those agencies.

    And it's not like they have the swing to kill someone who makes their workings' existence inconveniently known.

    Come on, man. I'm no die-hard conspiracy theorist, but it's just naive to blindly suckle from the "the feds are automatically the good guys" tit.
    First of all, its illegal both here and abroad to assasinate someone. and the CIA doesnt operate domestically. assisinations just dont happen, they dont. this isnt the first guy to leak information, and even then, its not exactly information even remotely worth killing for.
  • Glory Days
    O-Trap;1458805 wrote:
    Humor me. What, specifically, has he said that makes him "guilty," and of what would it make him guilty?
    have you even read any of his interview? he describes exactly the steps he took down to the lies he told his boss and girlfriend.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

    He said he released the information, that right there is punishable due to the fact he signed documents saying he wouldnt release secret information etc. its right at the bottom of every security clearance paperwork you sign in a position like his, it clearly states this.