The CT shooting and gun control
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Con_AlmaUOTE=BoatShoes;1343371],,,
If I were king, 1st you try to pass a police power amendment to the Constitution. Our national government functionally already has a police power and for many things conservatives think the federal government should do but it would go a long way to build up national support for gun control and appeasing the genuine concerns of conservatives. ...[/QUOTE]
????
The genuine concer of this conservative is baaed on the right to bare arms not being infringed upon and you consensus building is specifically designed to infringe upon that right.
Instead of trying to influence others to come to your way of thinking why not embrace those who get to live in the type of country we all choose for it to be collectively....even if it's not the one you would choose it to be individually? -
BoatShoes
Doooood. Obviously I agree with you that these decisions are made collectively through our representatives. I in no way hope to change the nation's gun control laws outside of the legislative process. Where are you getting this??? Cus I said "If I were king?"Con_Alma;1343387 wrote:It's not your decisions. It's the people's decision collectively through their representatives. What it would "hurt" doing it your way would be to circumvent that which we hold true which is our legislative process.
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Con_AlmaThe only true solution is to rid the violent culture we have. Everything else is simply a reactive response that will always be a step behind those seeking to carry out such acts of atrocity.
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Con_Alma
I am not a "dude". What I am getting at is there's no benefit in seeking out the only solution being stripping constitutional rights.BoatShoes;1343402 wrote:Doooood. Obviously I agree with you that these decisions are made collectively through our representatives. I in no way hope to change the nation's gun control laws outside of the legislative process. Where are you getting this??? Cus I said "If I were king?"
Respect the choices of all even when they are in opposition to you. Influence culture so that the process in place will be the route the collective chooses to build a non-violent nation with. -
BoatShoes
????Con_Alma;1343398 wrote:UOTE=BoatShoes;1343371],,,
If I were king, 1st you try to pass a police power amendment to the Constitution. Our national government functionally already has a police power and for many things conservatives think the federal government should do but it would go a long way to build up national support for gun control and appeasing the genuine concerns of conservatives. ...
The genuine concer of this conservative is baaed on the right to bare arms not being infringed upon and you consensus building is specifically designed to infringe upon that right.
Instead of trying to influence others to come to your way of thinking why not embrace those who get to live in the type of country we all choose for it to be collectively....even if it's not the one you would choose it to be individually?[/QUOTE]
If the people collectively were to change their minds, you might not have a right to bear arms that can't be infringed upon. I have a point of view. I realize not everyone shares my point of view and whatever we all decide on I abide by it. That does not mean I don't think it could be better and that we couldn't all collectively come to figure out what may make it better. I have my own ideas but others may as well and we will figure it out. -
bases_loaded
There's a reason why these things don't happen in police stations or military bases. Easy targets. I imagine its the same reason why old saloons weren't robbed nightly.
This wouldn't have happened if a security guard was present or there was a possibility a teacher or two was armed. -
isadore
????Con_Alma;1343398 wrote:UOTE=BoatShoes;1343371],,,
If I were king, 1st you try to pass a police power amendment to the Constitution. Our national government functionally already has a police power and for many things conservatives think the federal government should do but it would go a long way to build up national support for gun control and appeasing the genuine concerns of conservatives. ...
The genuine concer of this conservative is baaed on the right to bare arms not being infringed upon and you consensus building is specifically designed to infringe upon that right.
Instead of trying to influence others to come to your way of thinking why not embrace those who get to live in the type of country we all choose for it to be collectively....even if it's not the one you would choose it to be individually?[/QUOTE]bear arms, bear arms, bear arms, bear arms, please -
Con_Alma
Yes and if we changed our minds I would follow the laws of the land. Allow me and others to follow the current laws of the land by not infringing on those rights.BoatShoes;1343406 wrote:..
If the people collectively were to change their minds, you might not have a right to bear arms that can't be infringed upon. I have a point of view. I realize not everyone shares my point of view and whatever we all decide on I abide by it. That does not mean I don't think it could be better and that we couldn't all collectively come to figure out what may make it better. I have my own ideas but others may as well and we will figure it out. -
Con_Alma[/QUOTE]bear arms, bear arms, bear arms, bear arms, please[/QUOTE]
No thank you. I choose not own any. I have no reason to. -
BoatShoes
The only reason it's a "constitutional right" is because we decided it collectively to be one in 1789 when we thought it was necessary for a free state. It could not be tomorrow if the amendment process was followed and that too would be done through the collective will of the people.Con_Alma;1343405 wrote:I am not a "dude". What I am getting at is there's no benefit in seeking out the only solution being stripping constitutional rights.
Respect the choices of all even when they are in opposition to you. Influence culture so that the process in place will be the route the collective chooses to build a non-violent nation with.
I don't see how you're saying I don't respect the choices of those in opposition to me. I'm trying to take part in a constructive debate and have not insulted anyone in the same way they have insulted me in these related threads i.e. calling me stupid, a douche, weeping for my education, calling me a two year old, etc.
I, in fact, am taking your advice and doing my small part to influence our culture.
I'm not quite following where your beef is coming from. -
isadore
no guns would make it a much less violent culture.Con_Alma;1343403 wrote:The only true solution is to rid the violent culture we have. Everything else is simply a reactive response that will always be a step behind those seeking to carry out such acts of atrocity. -
Con_Alma
Lolisadore;1343413 wrote:no guns would make it a much less violent culture.
It will take much more than guns. That's not even close to being enough. -
BoatShoes
I merely hope to change the laws of the land which you say you will also follow. You're biased toward the current laws of the land even though you're suggesting you're not...hence why you say you want to follow the current laws of the land. The current laws of the land are junk and not doing their job and the death of innocents is an unnecessary consequence.Con_Alma;1343410 wrote:Yes and if we changed our minds I would follow the laws of the land. Allow me and others to follow the current laws of the land by not infringing on those rights. -
isadorebear arms, bear arms, bear arms, bear arms, please[/QUOTE]
No thank you. I choose not own any. I have no reason to.[/QUOTE] gosh a ruddies it would just be nice if you used the right term. you know the one they use in the second amendment.
unless all along you have been arguing for this
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Con_Alma
When did I ever suggest I wasn't biased towards anything? How does bias even matter?BoatShoes;1343415 wrote:I merely hope to change the laws of the land which you say you will also follow. You're biased toward the current laws of the land even though you're suggesting you're not...hence why you say you want to follow the current laws of the land. The current laws of the land are junk and not doing their job and the death of innocents is an unnecessary consequence.
No matter if I oppose or agree with the laws in place, I follow them.
The most important point is that the laws are absolutely doing their job. Laws don't keep people from doing things. They lay the ground work for the activities we are seeking to carry out. What law do you think didn't work?
People can access guns. The law set the foundation for our desire to make that possible. -
WebFireHey guys, I have an idea! Let's make drugs illegal, then our drug problem will be gone! We'll even go so far to make it illegal to buy and sell! And hell, even consume!
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Con_Alma
No thank you. I choose not own any. I have no reason to.[/QUOTE] gosh a ruddies it would just be nice if you used the right term. you know the one they use in the second amendment.isadore;1343418 wrote:bear arms, bear arms, bear arms, bear arms, please
unless all along you have been arguing for this
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I have used both words and one incorrectly. -
WebFireMaybe we should make murder illegal! I'm working on the details right now!
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Con_Alma
I think they will be one day. ...when enough of the people want them to be. We are certainly getting closer.WebFire;1343422 wrote:Hey guys, I have an idea! Let's make drugs illegal, then our drug problem will be gone! We'll even go so far to make it illegal to buy and sell! And hell, even consume!
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isadore
alot more kindergarten kids would be home tonight in newton, conn.Con_Alma;1343414 wrote:Lol
It will take much more than guns. That's not even close to being enough. -
WebFire
Not sure if serious.Con_Alma;1343426 wrote:I think they will be one day. ...when enough of the people want them to be. We are certainly getting closer. -
Con_Alma
A lot is two words.isadore;1343427 wrote:alot more kindergarten kids would be home tonight in newton, conn.
Of course more kindergartners may be home tonight if guns were illegal...and yet that's not the type of society we have chosen to seek and live in . We have chosen one whereby we are willing to have such a risk exists that's inclusive of someone willing to commit an awful acct for the sake of maintain the ability to own guns.
It's not more complex than that. -
Con_Alma
Of course I'm serious. We are moving in the direction of making certain narcotics legal...at the very least decriminalizing them.WebFire;1343431 wrote:Not sure if serious. -
WebFire
Reread my post and turn on your sarcasm detector.Con_Alma;1343435 wrote:Of course I'm serious. We are moving in the direction of making certain narcotics legal...at the very least decriminalizing them. -
WebFire
A lot more people would be alive if we still drove horse and buggies, and kept prohibition around.isadore;1343427 wrote:alot more kindergarten kids would be home tonight in newton, conn.