The CT shooting and gun control

• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1343220 wrote:I agree that's a concern but considering that we need to secure that border better anyway and this creates a strong incentive do so I think it's a risk worth taking since, considering the alternative doesn't seem to be working so well. If you were right we could always stop and go back to the way it was, eh.

  Keeping illegal aliens out should be enough incentive. But leave it to a liberal to think keeping guns out is a stronger incentive.
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1343239 wrote:Keeping illegal aliens out should be enough incentive. But leave it to a liberal to think keeping guns out is a stronger incentive.

  Where did say that was a stronger incentive or that keeping illegal aliens out wasn't a strong incentive? Pretty sure I've posted here about the possibility of border security project being a good idea for a keynesian stimulus program. But you're going off-topic here guy
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1343243 wrote:Where did say that was a stronger incentive or that keeping illegal aliens out wasn't a strong incentive? Pretty sure I've posted here about the possibility of border security project being a good idea for a keynesian stimulus program. But you're going off-topic here guy

  The incentive is already in place, but it doesn't happen. YOU suggested gun control was strong incentive for border control. So if that were to happen, that would suggest to me that gun control is more important than illegal aliens.
  
  And you brought up the topic, not me. How am I off topic?
• WebFire

  Gun ownership in America is actually declining.
  
  
• isadore

  GoChiefs;1343049 wrote:Yes, because gun control is going to stop something like this. :rolleyes:

  it is worth an effort.
• isadore

  ccrunner609;1343270 wrote:I cannot believe that Obamas left wing media is making this political issue on the same freakin day it happened. THe media and the WH are full of pigs.
  
  guns dont kill people, people kill people.

  a person using a gun killed 18 children.
• GoChiefs

  

  isadore;1343282 wrote:it is worth an effort.

  
  Please see the story about 22 kids stabbed in China. They weren't stabbed with guns.
• isadore

  GoChiefs;1343284 wrote:Please see the story about 22 kids stabbed in China. They weren't stabbed with guns.

  tell you what you make a list of all the mass stabbings and then i will make a list of all the mass shootings and we will see how they match up to tell which is a bigger threat.
• bases_loaded

  

  I remember some guy killing a shit ton of people with fruit punch, why can I still buy kool aid damn it
• bases_loaded

  

  isadore;1343291 wrote:tell you what you make a list of all the mass stabbings and then i will make a list of all the mass shootings and we will see how they match up to tell which is a bigger threat.

  
  How about you compare stabbings to shootings instead. Ya see, if I want to kill alot of people fast, I'm gonna use a gun. Not because the gun told me to, but because I'm a nut job and want to use something that will facilitate my craziness.
  
  It's not the damn gun.
• GoChiefs

  

  isadore;1343291 wrote:tell you what you make a list of all the mass stabbings and then i will make a list of all the mass shootings and we will see how they match up to tell which is a bigger threat.

  
  You actually think there are more shootings than stabbings? You're crazy.
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1343246 wrote:The incentive is already in place, but it doesn't happen. YOU suggested gun control was strong incentive for border control. So if that were to happen, that would suggest to me that gun control is more important than illegal aliens.
  
  And you brought up the topic, not me. How am I off topic?

  Eh, I thought you might be getting off-topic by bringing up illegal aliens but perhaps I'm wrong.
• jhay78

  

  BoatShoes;1343191 wrote:If we had some kind of national gun control, you're right, Mexico would pose a problem because we have poor border security and that's a pretty lawless state. It would at least create a singular point of entry and other countries industrialized have done an reasonable job of combating gun smuggling. It would also create an incentive for better securing our southern border.

  Have to agree with WebFire here. As long as 1) many poor, uneducated, future consumers of government services come across the border (read: become potential Democrat voters) and 2) any Republican attempt at securing said border can easily be labeled xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Latino, etc., then no gun issue or any issue will create any incentive for liberals to secure the border.
  

  isadore;1343283 wrote:a person using a gun killed 18 children.

  A person using fertilizer killed 200+ people, and many more children, in OKC.
• BoatShoes

  GoChiefs;1343284 wrote:Please see the story about 22 kids stabbed in China. They weren't stabbed with guns.

  Also, it looks like none of those kids died. Looks like guns are more efficient killing machines.
  
  http://americanlivewire.com/22-students-in-china-stabbed-in-elementary-school-attack-by-36-year-old-villager-min-yingjun/
• BoatShoes

  jhay78;1343304 wrote:Have to agree with WebFire here. As long as 1) many poor, uneducated, future consumers of government services come across the border (read: become potential Democrat voters) and 2) any Republican attempt at securing said border can easily be labeled xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Latino, etc., then no gun issue or any issue will create any incentive for liberals to secure the border.

  I realize you're really committed to the idea that liberals just want gubmint dependent zombies on the dole but I think if Republicans were to get behind the issue as a keynesian fiscal stimulus infrastructure project you could make a case that may persuade liberals.
• GoChiefs

  

  BoatShoes;1343305 wrote:Also, it looks like none of those kids died. Looks like guns are more efficient killing machines.
  
  http://americanlivewire.com/22-students-in-china-stabbed-in-elementary-school-attack-by-36-year-old-villager-min-yingjun/

  
  Nobody said they died did they? Do you want me to post a link where somebody died by being stabbed? Will that make you feel better?
• GoChiefs

  

  Just to please BoatShoes...
  
  http://abcnews.go.com/US/young-children-found-stabbed-death-illinois-home/story?id=17610742#.UMvkjUM1gWo
• gut

  Take away guns and these crazies will just use a home-made bomb...or their car.
• Con_Alma

  BoatShoes;1343307 wrote:I realize you're really committed to the idea that liberals just want gubmint dependent zombies on the dole but I think if Republicans were to get behind the issue as a keynesian fiscal stimulus infrastructure project you could make a case that may persuade liberals.

  We already have that "infrastructure" and are already spending money on it...it's our military.
• GoChiefs

  

  gut;1343311 wrote:Take away guns and these crazies will just use a home-made bomb...or their car.

  
  Common sense tells us that.
• jhay78

  

  Motor vehicle fatalities in US in 2011: 32,367.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
  
  Yearly gun homicides for the past decade in the US average around 10,000 per year.
  
  http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
• BoatShoes

  jhay78;1343304 wrote:A person using fertilizer killed 200+ people, and many more children, in OKC.

  A lot harder to do. Ironic enough, it seems a school shooting happened this day 20 years ago today.
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/opinion/why-we-let-the-school-shootings-continue.html?hp&_r=0
  
  
  A man who's own son died in a school shooting 20 years ago reflects
  
  WHY WE LET THE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS CONTINUE
  

  MY wife and I learned about the Connecticut school shootings on our way home from the cemetery, where we had just finished observing the 20th anniversary of our son’s murder.
  Our son Galen, who was 18, and a teacher were killed on Dec. 14, 1992, by a deranged student who went on a shooting rampage at Simon’s Rock College in western Massachusetts. Galen was a gifted kid, and Simon’s Rock seemed like the perfect place for him. He’d never been happier. The killer had a vastly different reaction to this environment. After run-ins with college officials, he vowed to “bring the college to its knees.” He bought an SKS at a gun shop down the road, and obtained oversize clips and ammunition through the mail.
  In the wake of Galen’s murder, I wrote a book about the shooting. In it I suggested that we view gun crime as a public health issue, much the same as smoking or pesticides. I spent a number of years attending rallies, signing petitions, writing letters and making speeches, but eventually I gave up. Gun control, such a live issue in the “early” days of school shootings, inexplicably became a third-rail issue for politicians.
  I came to realize that, in essence, this is the way we in America want things to be. We want our freedom, and we want our firearms, and if we have to endure the occasional school shooting, so be it. A terrible shame, but hey — didn’t some guy in China just do the same thing with a knife?
  Still, whatever your position on gun control, it is impossible not react with horror to news of the shootings in Connecticut. Our horror is nuanced by knowledge of what those families are going through, and what they will have to endure in years to come.
  More horrible still — to me at least — is the inevitable lament, “How could we have let this happen?”
  It is a horrible question because the answer is so simple. Make it easy for people to get guns and things like this will happen.
  
  Children will continue to pay for a freedom their elders enjoy.
  Gregory Gibson is the author of “Gone Boy: A Father’s Search for the Truth in His Son’s Murder.”
  

• Con_Alma

  It's not that man's decision.
• jhay78

  

  Make it harder for people to get guns, and deranged nuts intent on murder will find a way to get them or use something else.
• BoatShoes

  jhay78;1343315 wrote:Motor vehicle fatalities in US in 2011: 32,367.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
  
  Yearly gun homicides for the past decade in the US average around 10,000 per year.
  
  http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

  Like I noted in the other thread...widespread motor vehicle use/transportion offers much greater tangible societal benefits that are palpable than are evident from widespread gun ownership. Their benefits outweigh their costs...CLEARLY. That is not the case with guns.
  
  Tunisia has the lowest gun ownership in the world and they overthrew their government. If you can overcome tyranny without guns...are they really even necessary for a free state as we thought in 1789.
  
  Countries without automobiles/transportation are significantly less prosperous and wealthy.