The CT shooting and gun control

• isadore

  GoChiefs;1343863 wrote:Arguably some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, yet, still had the Cumbria shootings.
  
  Thats all I need to say. Proves my point exactly. If they want the guns, they will get them.

  as we add up the bodies and massacres each year we know what the prevalence of guns in our society.
• BoatShoes

  GoChiefs;1343863 wrote:Arguably some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, yet, still had the Cumbria shootings.
  
  Thats all I need to say. Proves my point exactly. If they want the guns, they will get them.

  If only you could see how it doesn't prove your point.
  
  the UK outlawed Handguns after the Dunblane massacre in 1996 and the Cumbria massacre was the first of its kind since 1996. The U.S. has had how many in that time span?
  
  In the Cumbria shootings, the shooter used a Shotgun and a Rifle both of which he had a license for. He didn't "get his hands on" illegal handguns that he wanted to use to kill. He used guns and ammo he legally had in his own home.
  
  No one is saying that if the U.S. adopted reasonable gun regulation every and all gun violence would cease forever...but we would love to have the amounts of gun violence other countries have by comparison.
  
  Among the world's 23 wealthiest countries, 80 percent of all gun deaths are American deaths and 87 percent of all kids killed by guns are American kids and we have the weakest overall gun regulation of those 23 wealthy countries.
• End of Line

  

  BoatShoes;1343857 wrote:They keep guns out of the hands of criminals in the United Kingdom....a country very similar to us but more secular, more accommodating of gays, atheism, decadence, narcissism, instant gratification, non-traditional families and welfarism than the United States.
  
  Yet, more people are killed in America by a gun every day than in a year in the UK.

  Look at the population size you idiot.
  
  Say this person used a chainsaw to do this, would you want to ban them? It would be the most grizzly and fucked up thing in our history. What if this person tried to do what McVeigh did? Would you want to ban any kind of materials that can make a bomb?
• BoatShoes

  End of Line;1343947 wrote:Look at the population size you idiot.

  I appreciate the kind words but that has already been covered in another thread on the topic. Of the wealthiest countries in the world the United States has significantly more gun homicides and homicides per 100,000 people than other countries and even has a higher murder-rate than crazy examples like the tribal terrorist state of Yemen.
  
  Should perhaps cover these things before throwing insults around???
• IggyPride00

  

  It was an M4 assault rifle that was used to gun down all those kids according to the news reports.
  
  I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment and come from a gun owning house, but there is just zero need for every Tom, Dick and Harry to be able to buy an assault rifle.
• isadore

  End of Line;1343947 wrote:Look at the population size you idiot.
  
  Say this person used a chainsaw to do this, would you want to ban them? It would be the most grizzly and ****ed up thing in our history. What if this person tried to do what McVeigh did? Would you want to ban any kind of materials that can make a bomb?

  tsk, tsk, tsk lets adjust for population
  British population 62, 641,000
  United States population 311, 531,000
  Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241
  Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146
  Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
  (Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)
  Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
  (equivalent to 195 US murders)
  http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html
• LJ

  

  IggyPride00;1343956 wrote:It was an M4 assault rifle that was used to gun down all those kids according to the news reports.
  
  I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment and come from a gun owning house, but there is just zero need for every Tom, Dick and Harry to be able to buy an assault rifle.

  It's already a felony to be in possession of one in Connecticut. Obviously that didn't stop anything.
• Belly35

  

  Time and time again we see the same series of events. Political figures on national media hinting of their political anti gun agenda on the heel of a community devastation. It was difficult to determine real concern from the poor acting of distress of those politically jousting. Deployable to watch as they grumble for air time at the expense of young lives and stricken families. Media spewing their Liberal attach on the rights of good law biding citizen and the 2nd Amendment and the blaming of weapons for crimes and horrific acts against innocent men, women, children, like the magical weapon calls them to their precious insanity. Even more repulsive is that the Professional Media reporting, skewed facts and when the real drama, strengths and perseverance are lost in networks bias.
  
  The problem is not with weapons. Now more than ever the utilization of responsible men and women with legal weapons, proficiency skill training and a past history of honored service should be implemented in those high affected of crazed individual. Where the focus should be directed is a closer look at the failure of the medical professional and teaching / counseling community that harbor many of those derange individual. If that means profiling so be it. Government regulation restricting vital information to law enforcement has not proven to be beneficial those 20 or 30 murder by one. Time for a closer evaluation of the Medical / Counseling g process of handling mentally and socially sick individual with our communities. Off with the gloves and political correctness time is now to be active in the prevention derange not the prevention of their action. Parents it time you also step up and face reality that your kid is a loser and potential damager to himself, you and innocent others. Difficult as it is to turn your kid in or call the authorities you have to. I’ve done it, difficult but in the end a blessing for the family.
  
  Weapons are not the problem, derange individuals and a system that protects then for reason of political correctness and professional confidentiality
• BoatShoes

  End of Line;1343947 wrote:Look at the population size you idiot.
  
  Say this person used a chainsaw to do this, would you want to ban them? It would be the most grizzly and fucked up thing in our history. What if this person tried to do what McVeigh did? Would you want to ban any kind of materials that can make a bomb?

  We don't have a widespread, persistent and systematic chainsaw or fertilizer violence problem. It's really not that hard to come to terms with. It would be harder to achieve his mission with a close quarters weapon like a chainsaw or a bomb that takes skill to construct as opposed to simply, easily getting a gun which is easier to get than it is to get mental health care.
• IggyPride00

  

  Time for a closer evaluation of the Medical / Counseling g process of handling mentally and socially sick individual with our communities

  When budgets are cut this is usually one of the first things to go.
  
  Insurance plans treat mental illness much different than regular illness as well as far as benefits.
  
  Medicaid is also largely terrible with mental illness.
  
  By the very nature of it it requires on going treatment and medicines that are often very costly.
  
  Until there is a commitment in this country to start recognizing that it is really no different than any other sickness and needs to be treated just as you would those, then we aren't ever going to take the steps needed to overcome the stigma that is largely attached to mental health issues.
• BoatShoes

  LJ;1343983 wrote:It's already a felony to be in possession of one in Connecticut. Obviously that didn't stop anything.

  Obviously it's not going to when you can have one in Pennsylvania or Nebraska or whatever??? It's not hard to see why state by state and city by city gun regulations would fail in a country with widespread and open interstate commerce.
• End of Line

  

  BoatShoes;1343953 wrote:I appreciate the kind words but that has already been covered in another thread on the topic. Of the wealthiest countries in the world the United States has significantly more gun homicides and homicides per 100,000 people than other countries and even has a higher murder-rate than crazy examples like the tribal terrorist state of Yemen.
  
  Should perhaps cover these things before throwing insults around???

  Apologies I didn't look at said thread, regardless, most of the stuff you have said is trash though.
  
  Care to respond to to my second response?
• End of Line

  

  BoatShoes;1343991 wrote:We don't have a widespread, persistent and systematic chainsaw or fertilizer violence problem. It's really not that hard to come to terms with. It would be harder to achieve his mission with a close quarters weapon like a chainsaw or a bomb that takes skill to construct as opposed to simply, easily getting a gun which is easier to get than it is to get mental health care.

  This guy could have gone to a room and went nuts with one though (chainsaw), it's not entirely impossible. He also could have saw what McVeigh did and improvise on it. It's not that hard to construct a bomb with common household chemicals and dynamite which you can purchase.
• LJ

  

  BoatShoes;1343994 wrote:Obviously it's not going to when you can have one in Pennsylvania or Nebraska or whatever??? It's not hard to see why state by state and city by city gun regulations would fail in a country with widespread and open interstate commerce.

  Except it is a felony to be in possession. It's also a felony to buy it in another state. You can only buy firearms in your state by private party, and through FFL in adjoining states. Being a resident of a state where it is illegal to own a certain gun, makes it illegal to try to buy one in an adjoining state. Penn and Nebraska are
  a. not adjoining states
  b. Make it a felony to try to buy a banned gun in that state.
  
  It's obvious that you hold a stance on gun control without even knowing what the laws are in this country, and how effective they would be if they were properly enforced.
  
  Virginia Tech would have never happened if Cho's status had been reported to NICS like it was supposed to have been.
• GoChiefs

  

  BoatShoes;1343945 wrote:If only you could see how it doesn't prove your point.

  It proves my point exactly. You're a blind fool if you can't see it. My point is, no matter what, these things are going to happen. You aren't going to stop them. It's common sense. If someone wants to kill someone, they will.
• WebFire

  isadore;1343868 wrote:as we add up the bodies and massacres each year we know what the prevalence of guns in our society.

  Gosh a ruddies, when people speak out against Obama and Liberal policies, you claim representative democracy and will of the people. But when it's something you disagree with, you totally change your tune. Will of the people right now is not to ban guns. So get over it.
• isadore

  gosh a ruddies mom wanted weapons in her home in case of economy collapse, gave son some gun training.
  had her 223 caliber assault rifle
  just what everyone needs in their home
  
  the 6 and 7 year olds had 3 to 7 wounds.
  had to use photos for parents to identify
  the gun adherents made it possible.
• isadore

  WebFire;1344010 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, when people speak out against Obama and Liberal policies, you claim representative democracy and will of the people. But when it's something you disagree with, you totally change your tune. Will of the people right now is not to ban guns. So get over it.

  you can blow off the slaughter of children, sorry i cannot. the fanatic gun supporters have prevented limitation on gun ownership. one of the many good things coming out of the past election was the humiliating defeat the nra suffered, may now something can be done to stop the slaughter of innocents.
• WebFire

  isadore;1344023 wrote:you can blow off the slaughter of children, sorry i cannot. the fanatic gun supporters have prevented limitation on gun ownership. one of the many good things coming out of the past election was the humiliating defeat the nra suffered, may now something can be done to stop the slaughter of innocents.

  gosh a ruddies you are a hyprocrite.
• LJ

  

  isadore;1344023 wrote:you can blow off the slaughter of children, sorry i cannot. the fanatic gun supporters have prevented limitation on gun ownership. one of the many good things coming out of the past election was the humiliating defeat the nra suffered, may now something can be done to stop the slaughter of innocents.

  Funny, you just advocated for the slaughter of children not too long ago on here....
  

  isadore;1333432 wrote:Two young adult punks broke in the home an old man and got what they deserved. Now they are treated as martyrs.

• WebFire

  Yep, when it's something he's against, the other side is fanatical. But his support of extreme liberal and socialist policy is "majority rule".
• isadore

  WebFire;1344028 wrote:gosh a ruddies you are a hyprocrite.

  tsk, tsk, tsk now those who protect the slaughters of innocent americans are being rejected by American people in our representative democracy. that and the re election of our first African American President show a rejection of your beliefs on race and guns.
• LJ

  

  Isadore is banned from the thread for bringing race up out of nowhere AGAIN. I'm not putting up with that shit. 0 Tolerance
• WebFire

  isadore;1344036 wrote:tsk, tsk, tsk now those who protect the slaughters of innocent americans are being rejected by American people in our representative democracy. that and the re election of our first African American President show a rejection of your beliefs on race and guns.

  All of this is false. You are a liar.
• WebFire

  LJ;1344038 wrote:Isadore is banned from the thread for bringing race up out of nowhere AGAIN. I'm not putting up with that shit. 0 Tolerance

  Thank you. I may have been heading for a ban myself.