The CT shooting and gun control
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BoatShoes
FIFY.FatHobbit;1437438 wrote: IF background checks have no real affect on gun violence you don't think those same democrats will decide they need to try something more? (For the children!)
Sure, but they would only be effective in a total liberal democrat majority anyway...the kind of which would not get punished like they did in 1994...
If they do decrease gun violence...to me it actually undermines the power of a true liberal democrat majority to pursue gun bans....Why fix it if it ain't broken sort of thing. -
FatHobbit
I don't think increased background checks (especially as they are currently implemented) would have stopped any of the recent gun tragedies so I have little faith they would do anything to curb violence. (the very public tragedies that make the news or the common crook kind of violence that happens in larger cities)BoatShoes;1437483 wrote:If they do decrease gun violence...to me it actually undermines the power of a true liberal democrat majority to pursue gun bans....Why fix it if it ain't broken sort of thing. -
tk421
No one has said anything about any of the recent shootings and the bombers getting guns through a private face to face purchase, and as that is the only "loophole" that currently exists, I don't really see the need. I think Obama needs to stop worry about gun "control", get off the golf course, and start worrying about his absolutely crappy "recovery" economy. -
FatHobbit
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/06/tech/innovation/3d-gun-video/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Lol at terrorists giving a shit about gun lawsNew York Sen. Charles Schumer is one of several politicians pushing for stricter legislation that would ban firearms created with 3-D printers.
"Passing this law would not only prevent people from making these parts, it would raise awareness on the issue," Schumer said Sunday during a news conference. "We're facing a situation where anyone -- a felon, a terrorist -- can open a gun factory in their garage."
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tk421
Schumer needs to go fuck himself and get voted out, not holding out hope though since he is from NY.
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fish82
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GUN_VIOLENCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-05-07-19-27-18
Oops.A study released Tuesday by the government's Bureau of Justice Statistics found that gun-related homicides dropped from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011. That's a 39 percent reduction.
Another report by the private Pew Research Center found a similar decline by looking at the rate of gun homicides, which compares the number of killings to the size of the country's growing population. It found that the number of gun homicides per 100,000 people fell from 7 in 1993 to 3.6 in 2010, a drop of 49 percent.
Both reports also found that non-fatal crimes involving guns were down by roughly 70 percent over that period. The Justice report said the number of such crimes diminished from 1.5 million in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.
In case BoatShoes stops by, here are some cool charts and graphs too. :laugh:
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FatHobbit
I found this interesting
And I have absolutely 0 interest in more gun control but I do think someone is going to point out that the Brady bill was passed in 1993 which would appear to be the date the study pointed to as when gun crimes began to drop.Though researchers differ over all the reasons why gun violence has declined, many attribute it to the aging of the baby boomers. The crime rate was higher in the 1960s and 1970s when many in that large generation were teenagers, an age when higher proportions of people commit crimes. -
fish82
They'd be welcome to do that, as it illustrates that the current laws on the books are working as intended.FatHobbit;1440052 wrote:I found this interesting
And I have absolutely 0 interest in more gun control but I do think someone is going to point out that the Brady bill was passed in 1993 which would appear to be the date the study pointed to as when gun crimes began to drop.
I found it most interesting that 56% of the country thinks that gun violence is on the rise, when the opposite is true. -
BoatShoes
I acknowledged way back at the beginning of this thread, before these neat charts came out, that gun violence/homicides in the United States and in the developed world was on a general downward trend. That has never been in dispute by me.fish82;1440076 wrote:They'd be welcome to do that, as it illustrates that the current laws on the books are working as intended.
I found it most interesting that 56% of the country thinks that gun violence is on the rise, when the opposite is true.
However, per 100,000 persons, as we've already covered is considerably higher in the United States than other OECD countries (save Russia to satisfy HitsRus) despite that overall downward trend. In those western countries that have better rates than us, they have stricter, national firearms regulation regimes.
The only thing new from this data is that it is indeed interesting that people think gun violence is going up when as a whole the trend is downward. If I were to venture a guess...I imagine the highly publicized mass shootings contribute to this thought when we have last 3rd page news gun deaths.
The point still remains; Other countries have tangibly less gun deaths...whether by mass shootings; little kids killing their step moms; gang members killing for drugs; terrorists killing cops; little brothers shooting their little sisters....and they don't seem all that much worse off/less free in the aggregate despite more strict firearms regulation. Might as well at least try to make sure we make it harder for bad guys to get guns if we're going to live with little brothers shooting their little sisters, etc. -
FatHobbit
From the new orleans shooting thread
This is the truth. Or if a white person was shot.Raw Dawgin' it;1442166 wrote:Black on black crime does not get the attention of the news because it's a daily occurrence. If this were a white guy doing the shooting the President would be calling for the banning of all weapons.
Isn't it funny how the Trayvon Marton story disappeared once they found out the shooter was hispanic? -
Belly35
How about good legal gun owners shoot to kill the bad illegal bad guys without being convicted or having to defend themselves in a court of law from some Liberal lawyer. ...BoatShoes;1440083 wrote:I acknowledged way back at the beginning of this thread, before these neat charts came out, that gun violence/homicides in the United States and in the developed world was on a general downward trend. That has never been in dispute by me.
However, per 100,000 persons, as we've already covered is considerably higher in the United States than other OECD countries (save Russia to satisfy HitsRus) despite that overall downward trend. In those western countries that have better rates than us, they have stricter, national firearms regulation regimes.
The only thing new from this data is that it is indeed interesting that people think gun violence is going up when as a whole the trend is downward. If I were to venture a guess...I imagine the highly publicized mass shootings contribute to this thought when we have last 3rd page news gun deaths.
The point still remains; Other countries have tangibly less gun deaths...whether by mass shootings; little kids killing their step moms; gang members killing for drugs; terrorists killing cops; little brothers shooting their little sisters....and they don't seem all that much worse off/less free in the aggregate despite more strict firearms regulation. Might as well at least try to make sure we make it harder for bad guys to get guns if we're going to live with little brothers shooting their little sisters, etc. -
BoatShoes
I can live with a world where legal gun owners justifiably kill an assailant in self defense but you obviously should have to prove to a jury of your peers (not a liberal lawyer) that killing was justified in a court of law.Belly35;1442644 wrote:How about good legal gun owners shoot to kill the bad illegal bad guys without being convicted or having to defend themselves in a court of law from some Liberal lawyer. ... -
gut
And they don't have to. A clear case of self-defense is rarely pursued by a DA.BoatShoes;1442701 wrote:I can live with a world where legal gun owners justifiably kill an assailant in self defense but you obviously should have to prove to a jury of your peers (not a liberal lawyer) that killing was justified in a court of law. -
majorspark
The IRS scandal pretty much put the kibosh to any expanded background checks. -
Pick6
As gun sales soar, gun crimes plummet
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/05/14/disarming-realities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/