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US Army "Kill Team" in posed pictures with dead Afg. Civilians

  • ou1980
    http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/21/us-army-kill-team-afghanistan-posed-pictures-murdered-civilians?cat=world&type=artic

    Oh this is bad....bad bad bad bad....

    It's likely some folks at the top in the pentagon will be fired or forced to resign over this....
    Ie Gates, Petraes...


    These pictures make Abu Ghraib look like a Christmas card...
  • ptown_trojans_1
    Not good indeed.
    This is one of those oh shit moments, where suddenly all the work the COIN strategy was doing is gone now.
  • tk421
    And we wonder why people in the Middle East hate this country.
  • Steel Valley Football
    Link not working?
  • Fab1b
    Steel Valley Football;720511 wrote:Link not working?

    Correct getting nothing
  • ptown_trojans_1
    Good link dump and explanation:
    http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/21/daily_brief_photos_show_us_army_soldiers_posing_with_dead_afghan_civilian
  • dwccrew
    These people have wanted us out of their country now for some time; this will just solidify that sentiment. Chalk this war up into the "L" category. It's only a matter of time before the Taliban or some fragments of the Taliban assert and assume power in Afghanistan again.
  • Fab1b

    Wheres the pics?

    Nevermind found it
  • majorspark
    War makes animals out of many human beings that are required to take part in it. It has been the nature of war since the beginning of time. The brutality of war forms a callous on your soul. As a just nation we deal with those that act unjustly. They will be punished accordingly. Let us not be ignorant of our history. Or any nations history. These unjust acts are a nature of the brutality of war and in times past we just sliced off your scalp to make sport of the kill.
  • believer
    majorspark;720549 wrote:War makes animals out of many human beings that are required to take part in it. It has been the nature of war since the beginning of time. The brutality of war forms a callous on your soul. As a just nation we deal with those that act unjustly. They will be punished accordingly. Let us not be ignorant of our history. Or any nations history. These unjust acts are a nature of the brutality of war and in times past we just sliced off your scalp to make sport of the kill.
    Agreed. Scalpings, My Lai, the Bataan Death March, rape, murder, and a host of other egregious events that occur during war are an unfortunately darker side of human nature.

    Do I defend these actions? No. This should be investigated quickly and appropriate punishment applied. But are we are foolish enough to think that American soldiers are somehow immune from committing brutal and sometimes atrocious acts during the course and stresses of combat?

    Just another sign that it's time to GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
  • WebFire
    majorspark;720549 wrote:War makes animals out of many human beings that are required to take part in it. It has been the nature of war since the beginning of time. The brutality of war forms a callous on your soul. As a just nation we deal with those that act unjustly. They will be punished accordingly. Let us not be ignorant of our history. Or any nations history. These unjust acts are a nature of the brutality of war and in times past we just sliced off your scalp to make sport of the kill.
    Spot on, IMO.
  • bases_loaded
    No surprise its the Army. Probably a bunch of guys crying about having to be there. I hope they get the firing squad. A bad apple spoils the batch.
  • tsst_fballfan
    bases_loaded;720582 wrote:... A bad apple spoils the batch.
    Unfortunately this is the way much of the world will look at it. Hundreds of thousands will get a black eye for the acts of five guys.

    The media has a love affair with the bad in people. You rarely hear of the soldier that died saving a little Afgan child. But this news will go viral.
  • Writerbuckeye
    bases_loaded;720582 wrote:No surprise its the Army. Probably a bunch of guys crying about having to be there. I hope they get the firing squad. A bad apple spoils the batch.

    Nope. Not even close.

    I refuse to blacken the names of millions of American service personnel over the acts of a few. Punish them appropriately and severely, and move on. As for the PR fallout from this: in the overall scheme of things, will it really matter in a region where brutality is a way of life? They can finger point and scream all they like, but until they stop beheading innocents, killing rape victims and mutilating the genitals of young girls, they have no moral soapbox on which to stand.
  • tsst_fballfan
    Writerbuckeye;720737 wrote:Nope. Not even close.

    I refuse to blacken the names of millions of American service personnel over the acts of a few. Punish them appropriately and severely, and move on. As for the PR fallout from this: in the overall scheme of things, will it really matter in a region where brutality is a way of life? They can finger point and scream all they like, but until they stop beheading innocents, killing rape victims and mutilating the genitals of young girls, they have no moral soapbox on which to stand.
    I agree but as whacked out as that area of the world is all they will care about is that it was America that committed the atrocity.
  • ou1980
    Has this story even made the news yet???
  • Art Modell
    They must of got bored.
  • Fab1b
    ou1980;720776 wrote:Has this story even made the news yet???

    Yes I have heard some brief discussion on the TV at work about it. The TV at work is tuned to CNN (sucks) but it is what it is.
  • I Wear Pants
    Writerbuckeye;720737 wrote:Nope. Not even close.

    I refuse to blacken the names of millions of American service personnel over the acts of a few. Punish them appropriately and severely, and move on. As for the PR fallout from this: in the overall scheme of things, will it really matter in a region where brutality is a way of life? They can finger point and scream all they like, but until they stop beheading innocents, killing rape victims and mutilating the genitals of young girls, they have no moral soapbox on which to stand.
    You may refuse to associate all American soldiers with these few but try telling that to the family, friends, and people who knew the people in the pictures that they were posing with. Likely won't ever be able to repair our image through there eyes and I can't blame them for that.
  • tsst_fballfan
    I Wear Pants;720792 wrote:You may refuse to associate all American soldiers with these few but try telling that to the family, friends, and people who knew the people in the pictures that they were posing with. Likely won't ever be able to repair our image through there eyes and I can't blame them for that.
    I agree that they will blame all US soldiers but I absolutely disagree with the "I can't blame them" philosophy. That is simply a lousy unjust approach period. That's like saying we should not be blamed for assuming every Middle Easterner is a terrorist!
  • Belly35
    .. This is just from the experience.

    Day after day soldiers witness death, lose of friends, close encounter with their own death and brutality beyond many of your imagination, only to encounter the same the next day or within the next second. They live with it day and night, it gets easy and unemotional ….. just a job, duty and mission.
    “Killing teams” .. “Baby killer”is just a name to sell the article and to make drama more intense. To vivify those that do what many refuse to grasp. This are soldiers men and women who are our neighbors, friends and relative doing a job ..called “War”. Where the reporting of the other side those horrendous actions of rape, murder and forced bomb vest on handicap children and pregnant women? Difficult to document and photo those events of wrong in time of War.

    War is that where people on all side die, where killing is the part of the equation and death of citizen are collateral damage. This the same war where the enemy beheaded, hanged and burned American bodies on bridges, in allies and basements for TV media views pleasure. Where reporters are killed, social worker murdered and civilian contractor plead for their lives only to be forgotten by the events of the next days horror.
    War has no boundary of a soldier’s behavior they become emotionally detached, unless you smelled the decay of death, burning of bullet wound flesh and the sounds of dyeing you can’t be judge of their actions.

    Limitation on actions of combat soldiers does not prevent nor stop what seem to be grossly wrong on the youtube, primetime and printed media photos. It magnifies the potential of wrong and increases the backlash of being a soldier. It gets easy to be (quote) “Killing Team” taking photos, video and cell phones pics …trophy, reminders, documentation ….. why? I don’t know but it does happen I can attest to this http://www.psywarrior.com/DeathCardsAce.html I’m not defending their action but unless you been there that very second that the first crack of a AK47 you will never know what happens in the minds and the event that moment in the life of a American Soldier your neighbor, co-worker, friend and relative ….. While you sleep in comfort with the insurance of our military, that American soldier rest for only a few minutes with blood from yesterday.

    Blame the grunt it’s easy, video, photo and pics all tell the story of wrong …. blemish others soldiers good deeds and provides fuel for the weak…

    I stand solid with these guys in support … not for what they did but for who they are “American Soldiers”…….

    …..There are no winners in WAR only survivors, victims and death….
  • fish82
    ou1980;720776 wrote:Has this story even made the news yet???
    Barely...not surprising.
  • CenterBHSFan
    Thought provoking post, Belly.
  • Writerbuckeye
    I Wear Pants;720792 wrote:You may refuse to associate all American soldiers with these few but try telling that to the family, friends, and people who knew the people in the pictures that they were posing with. Likely won't ever be able to repair our image through there eyes and I can't blame them for that.

    So you also don't blame Americans for seeing a terrorist in every Muslim, right?
  • Thread Bomber
    I liked the pics. it shows exactly what war looks like. The pic is truthful and fair.

    I could see how something like this could happen. It may seem distasteful, But spend a week in these guys boots ( not a moment in time) It seems to me that this empowers the troops to see just how real this is.

    A sniper that takes a head shot from a half mile away sees the target, Pulls the trigger, and see the blood spray. Then its over.

    Unfortunately, these images were released to the general public that has no stomach for this kind of stuff, and an image like that is sure to leave an image burned into their minds.

    Good. War is ugly.