Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• coach_bob1

  LJ;705827 wrote:Access to A phone? Yes
  
  Permission to call all of those phones? Not close

  
  It is not clear whether they called cell phones that they had permission to contact or not due to a lack of a published abstract on the research. I would assume due to FCC regulations, they were only cell phones where permission had been granted.
• stlouiedipalma

  It doesn't matter how much you try to justify the poll. Jesus Christ could poll one million people face-to-face and our resident poll experts would find something wrong with his testing methods.
• sleeper

  

  stlouiedipalma;705921 wrote:It doesn't matter how much you try to justify the poll. Jesus Christ could poll one million people face-to-face and our resident poll experts would find something wrong with his testing methods.

  
  Because polls are bullshit? I highly doubt only 33% of Ohioans support the bill.
• stlouiedipalma

  Thank you for proving me correct.
• dwccrew

  

  coach_bob1;704742 wrote:But, that could also work both ways.

  I think he stated it would or could work both ways.
  

  Footwedge;704882 wrote:Otrap.....Bonus dollars are taxed at the same rate as your regular pay...unless your tax bracket changes....which is most likely not the case. Your witholdings are nasty...but once you square up with the IRS....you've paid the exact same percentage.

  
  This is the case. I have received bonuses in the past and the withholdings always make it seem like you were taxed at a higher rate, but as Foot states, once tax season arrives and you square up, it is at the same percentage.
  

  stlouiedipalma;705936 wrote:Thank you for proving me correct.

  
  He didn't prove you correct and you didn't prove anybody wrong.
• LJ

  

  stlouiedipalma;705921 wrote:It doesn't matter how much you try to justify the poll. Jesus Christ could poll one million people face-to-face and our resident poll experts would find something wrong with his testing methods.

  
  All phone polls are statistically flawed. Show me a poll that agrees 100% with my beliefs and I will state the same thing.
• WebFire

  sleeper;705924 wrote:Because polls are bullshit? I highly doubt only 33% of Ohioans support the bill.

  
  Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Almost all people know a teacher of other state worker. They talk to their friend and they get a sob story, much the same as we hear on this forum. The people feel bad for their friend and automatically are opposed to the bill.
  
  Most people don't pay enough attention to know what bills are really about, and only know what they hear at the coffee shop or a friend.
• stlouiedipalma

  WebFire;706212 wrote:Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Almost all people know a teacher of other state worker. They talk to their friend and they get a sob story, much the same as we hear on this forum. The people feel bad for their friend and automatically are opposed to the bill.
  
  Most people don't pay enough attention to know what bills are really about, and only know what they hear at the coffee shop or a friend.

  
  You are probably correct with your assessment. Those people could easily log on to this website and find out what the real facts are.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  WebFire;706212 wrote:Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Almost all people know a teacher of other state worker. They talk to their friend and they get a sob story, much the same as we hear on this forum. The people feel bad for their friend and automatically are opposed to the bill.
  
  Most people don't pay enough attention to know what bills are really about, and only know what they hear at the coffee shop or a friend.

  
  There's no doubt a lot of truth here. People pass stuff that they'd never agree to if there was time for someone to sit down and explain the total economic ramifications to them.
  
  A good example was passing the minimum wage law. That one has probably cost more people jobs than it has helped, because businesses required to hire at that wage (which will only go up now) will bypass hiring altogether, even though they might have hired someone (specifically a teenager or beginner) at less, with possibility for that salary to grow.
  
  What most people don't realize is that the unions pushed that through because so many of them have wages in contracts tied to increases in the minimum wage. It's a way to guarantee themselves more pay increases down the road. That information wasn't made clear when it was on the ballot.
  
  I hope if this issue goes before the voters, they are given full and complete disclosure of salaries, benefits, pensions and all other financial information, both present and future, so they can make an informed decision.
• Thread Bomber

  

  SB 5 passed 55-44 and is heading to Kasich to be signed
  
  http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/03/31/copy/assembly-sends-sb-5-to-kasich.html?adsec=politics&sid=101
• ernest_t_bass

  

  And passed 17-16 Senate. Kasich rumored to have it signed by end of the week.
• Gblock

  on a side note about when we were talking charter schools...we have just enrolled 16 new students this week that were kicked out of charter schools just in time for OAA...these students who most likely wont pass OAA, will now count against our school/district even tho the charter schools got the money for them and have instructed them all school year. im sure their percentages will get a nice boost by clearing out some problem students. we of course take all students. awesome
• ernest_t_bass

  

  Gblock;729758 wrote:on a side note about when we were talking charter schools...we have just enrolled 16 new students this week that were kicked out of charter schools just in time for OAA...these students who most likely wont pass OAA, will now count against our school/district even tho the charter schools got the money for them and have instructed them all school year. im sure their percentages will get a nice boost by clearing out some problem students. we of course take all students. awesome

  
  Stop complaining. Welcome to the real world. Do her best friend. Curbstomp!
• redstreak one

  

  For the 1th time, we get it! lol
  
  Charter schools and private schools now should be held to the same standards as public schools as far as enrollment are concerned. IMO, they take a student, they should by law be required to offer them an education for at least 1 full school year without expelling them after the October count for just the money.
  
  That is the 1 big thing about vouchers that scares me gblock. That scenario will be played out that you described until ODE and the State mandate that the district that receives the money is lawfully obligated to at least keep them for 1 year.
• BoatShoes

  Writerbuckeye;705050 wrote:That poll is NOT reflective of Ohio opinion, and I'd doubt it reflects US opinion on public unions. It was (if I recall) 1,000 adults who were polled. There was no data or breakdown given of who those 1,000 people were. MOST polls tell you the background of those polled (i.e. gender, education, registered R or D, etc.) This poll gave none of that data that I could find. And if they did release it, I'm betting you'd find it weighted in favor of those who prefer unions to those who do not.

  
  Of cooourrssee it doesn't. Look, I'm not saying these polls that suggest Ohioans favor public unions are the ironclad truth...I'm merely marveling at your consistent inconsistency. Whenever there's a poll or a study that supports what you believe you are all about it and whenever there's a poll or study that you disagree with you always come up with some reason as to why it's no good. If only you would provide such thoughtful skepticism toward your own positions. It really is marvelous to watch and yet you do not see it.
• Con_Alma

  The poll that matters in a representative type government is the election numbers. The voters put a conservative in the Statehouse who wasn't shy about his intentions. He along with the House and Senate are carrying out an action that is reflective of their ideology. It shouldn't be shocking to anyone. The people will have a chance to replace them next election. Until such time I ask the Republican Governor to set an agenda that's conservative in nature no matter what public opinion polls say because the voters that voted for him are expecting him to do so.
• BoatShoes

  Con_Alma;730344 wrote:The poll that matters in a representative type government is the election numbers. The voters put a conservative in the Statehouse who wasn't shy about his intentions. He along with the House and Senate are carrying out an action that is reflective of their ideology. It shouldn't be shocking to anyone. The people will have a chance to replace them next election. Until such time I ask the Republican Governor to set an agenda that's conservative in nature no matter what public opinion polls say because the voters that voted for him are expecting him to do so.

  
  I guarantee you didn't apply this same reasoning to BHO.
• QuakerOats

  Standing and applauding Kasich and the legislature for the new law which is a great first step in controlling government spending and runaway public sector compensation costs, and giving local entities the tools they need to effectively manage their operations. This is a huge win for Ohio, and to all those who had the courage to do the right thing - thank you.
• Con_Alma

  BoatShoes;730354 wrote:I guarantee you didn't apply this same reasoning to BHO.

  Huh?
  
  You guarantee it? Based on what? I didn't vote for the current President. He is acting just as I expected with his policies. If he carried a more conservative approach into his actions I would be shocked.
  
  Public opinion polls mean nothing to me regarding the President. Votes matter. People need to learn that quickly. The voters chose the current President and there's not a lot I can do about that until the next elections day.
  
  Tell me what you are basing your guarantee on please.
• fish82

  

  Writerbuckeye;705407 wrote:They never break down how many respondents identify as Republican, Democrat or independent. That's a critical piece to how the poll is weighted and will directly affect the outcome. I've seen too many of these, when the real data comes out, that were very definitely weighted in one direction or the other.
  
  If you're confident in your results, then give us the actual numbers, don't just tell us it's a representative sampling. I'm not going to believe it.

  The only polls I've seen that show the sampling by party are ABCNews/WaPo, and Rasmussen. I'm not even sure ABC/WaPo even shows it anymore, after they got busted twice in a row drastically oversampling democrats on Bam's approval polls last year.
• QuakerOats

  Great article:
  
  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576219073867182108.html
  
  "Where are the productivity gains in government? Consider a core function of state and local governments: schools. Over the period 1970-2005, school spending per pupil, adjusted for inflation, doubled, while standardized achievement test scores were flat. Over roughly that same time period, public-school employment doubled per student, according to a study by researchers at the University of Washington. That is what economists call negative productivity.
  
  But education is an industry where we measure performance backwards: We gauge school performance not by outputs, but by inputs. If quality falls, we say we didn't pay teachers enough or we need smaller class sizes or newer schools. If education had undergone the same productivity revolution that manufacturing has, we would have half as many educators, smaller school budgets, and higher graduation rates and test scores."
  
  
  At some point, all those in favor of protecting the status quo and the cushy jobs of the union leadership leaches, will have to regain their senses and acknowledge that the union-controlled, public education monopoly, is simply broken.
• stlouiedipalma

  I'll come back to this topic after the voters have had their say on SB5. Until then all you Buckeyes have fun with your new world. Let us know how that "no bargaining" stuff works out for everyone.
• O-Trap

  

  stlouiedipalma;730816 wrote:I'll come back to this topic after the voters have had their say on SB5. Until then all you Buckeyes have fun with your new world. Let us know how that "no bargaining" stuff works out for everyone.

  Where does it say no bargaining is allowed?
• believer

  

  stlouiedipalma;730816 wrote:I'll come back to this topic after the voters have had their say on SB5. Until then all you Buckeyes have fun with your new world. Let us know how that "no bargaining" stuff works out for everyone.

  No bargaining? Oh you mean no anonymous union thugs making wage deals for intelligent folks who can bargain for themselves.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  O-Trap;730820 wrote:Where does it say no bargaining is allowed?

  
  Didn't you hear? Dictator Kasich took all their "rights" away.