New Arizona law on immigration is stirring it up
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tk421
We can't impede potential votes from crossing the border. There is absolutely no political will in D.C to do anything about the immigration problem.Writerbuckeye wrote: Under the previous administration, progress was being made on the use of a virtual fence along the Mexican border to help shore up areas where illegals were getting into the country.
A poster on an OSU board I frequent was one of the folks who worked on that project for a couple years, and he was excited at how successful it was during periodic testing -- at locating illegals (using things like infrared technology) and then sending out border patrols to round them up and send them home.
So what happened to this promising project?
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/03/17/virtual-fence-along-u-s-mexico-border-halted-as-napolitano-sh/
Of course, I haven't heard one peep from the mainstream media talking about any of this. It's a shame the public is mostly unaware of how this administration has abandoned its responsibilities where our Southern border is concerned. -
Belly35
Hells Bells! I volunteer for a month just to have mad minute one more time….I Wear Pants wrote:
Because we had to hang dudes in sandy places on the other side of the world.cbus4life wrote: I just don't understand why we can't just deploy the National Guard or some element of the military to the border, set up outposts and the like, and secure the hell out of it. Seems like it would be rather simple...
We mobilized quite effectively to invade a country that didn't even pose a threat to us, why can't we do the same to stop an invasion into our own country that is actually having harmful effects...
Wouldn't cost us much at all, relatively speaking. I know the border is very, very large, but we have the capability to occupy the area without much trouble at all, i would think.
I love the feel of a 50 Cal. one more time…or … the jump of a 60 with short burst …and to pop a claymore again…. -
I Wear PantsPlease, please, please be using sarcasm.
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tk421
Nope, I agree with Belly. If we start shooting trespassers, they'd get the message really quick.I Wear Pants wrote: Please, please, please be using sarcasm. -
Belly35
I Wear Pants wrote: Please, please, please be using sarcasm.
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tk421
Maybe one day the U.S will get lucky and a massive earthquake will separate the U.S/Canada half of North America from Mexico. That's about the only way we'll ever have border security.
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jhay78
That's a great point- if you read the articles from ESPN a few pages back, you'd have thought Arizona made it illegal to be non-white.0311sdp wrote: Close the Mexican border by whatever means needed, deport all illegal aliens. We have a system in place to become a citizen of the this country. Just inforce the laws we already have. No politician wants to do what's right because they don't want to lose the Hispanic vote, which anymore is a large number. This is the same problem in all areas of politics now, no one cares about doing what needs done they only care about being re-elected to their high paying, great benefits jobs while the country slides down the crap hole.
At some point, politicians are willing to ignore truth, facts, and logic and just go along with the masses to avoid being labeled a racist. Except in this case, "the masses" are actually 70% of Arizonans (and 70% of Americans) who support this bill. -
Glory Days
time for a BOOBQUAKE!!!!tk421 wrote: Maybe one day the U.S will get lucky and a massive earthquake will separate the U.S/Canada half of North America from Mexico. That's about the only way we'll ever have border security. -
jhay78
Gov. Jan Brewer responds to threatened boycotts of 2011 MLB All-Star Game in Phoenix:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=brewer/100505
I know LJ and others debated this for about 15 pages on this thread, but I still don't see what's so difficult or unconstitutional about what she states here:
"1. The new Arizona law creates a state penalty to mirror what already is a federal crime. Despite the most vile and hate-filled portrayals of proponents of the law as "Nazis," actions that have been condemned nationally by the Anti-Defamation League, it is ALREADY a federal requirement for legal aliens in the United States to carry their green card or other immigration document. The new Arizona law enforces what has been a federal crime since before World War II. As anyone who has traveled abroad knows, other nations have similar laws.
2. Contrary to many of the horror stories being spread -- President Obama suggested families risk being pulled over while going out for ice cream -- law enforcement cannot randomly ask anyone about their immigration status. Much like enforcement of seat belt laws in many states, under SB 1070 there must first be reasonable suspicion that you are breaking some OTHER non-immigration law before an officer can ask a person about their legal status. Only then, after law enforcement officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that another law has been broken, can they inquire about immigration status -- but ONLY if that individual's behavior provides "reasonable suspicion" that the person is here illegally.
"Reasonable suspicion" is a well-understood concept that has been thoroughly vetted through numerous federal court cases. Many have asked: What is reasonable suspicion? Is it race, skin color or national origin? No! Racial profiling is prohibited in the new law. Examples of reasonable suspicion include: a person running away when approached by law enforcement officers, or a car failing to stop when the police turn on their lights and siren." -
LJ
I haven't debated reasonable suspicion. It's the illegality of making a citizen provide documents on their immigration status.jhay78 wrote: Gov. Jan Brewer responds to threatened boycotts of 2011 MLB All-Star Game in Phoenix:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=brewer/100505
I know LJ and others debated this for about 15 pages on this thread, but I still don't see what's so difficult or unconstitutional about what she states here:
"1. The new Arizona law creates a state penalty to mirror what already is a federal crime. Despite the most vile and hate-filled portrayals of proponents of the law as "Nazis," actions that have been condemned nationally by the Anti-Defamation League, it is ALREADY a federal requirement for legal aliens in the United States to carry their green card or other immigration document. The new Arizona law enforces what has been a federal crime since before World War II. As anyone who has traveled abroad knows, other nations have similar laws.
2. Contrary to many of the horror stories being spread -- President Obama suggested families risk being pulled over while going out for ice cream -- law enforcement cannot randomly ask anyone about their immigration status. Much like enforcement of seat belt laws in many states, under SB 1070 there must first be reasonable suspicion that you are breaking some OTHER non-immigration law before an officer can ask a person about their legal status. Only then, after law enforcement officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that another law has been broken, can they inquire about immigration status -- but ONLY if that individual's behavior provides "reasonable suspicion" that the person is here illegally.
"Reasonable suspicion" is a well-understood concept that has been thoroughly vetted through numerous federal court cases. Many have asked: What is reasonable suspicion? Is it race, skin color or national origin? No! Racial profiling is prohibited in the new law. Examples of reasonable suspicion include: a person running away when approached by law enforcement officers, or a car failing to stop when the police turn on their lights and siren." -
redstreak one
^^^^ So making an Illegal citizen produce it by means of reasonable suspicion by you is OK then? -
LJ
No. It's illegal to make anyone produce anything.redstreak one wrote: ^^^^ So making an Illegal citizen produce it by means of reasonable suspicion by you is OK then? -
redstreak one
^^^^^^ On reasonable suspicion, correct?
I agree that this is a slippery slope that can and has been abused. What I hope comes out of this State law is an uproar for our Federal Govt to finally take a stand one way or another. Its harder to come in off a cruise ship, than walk across the border, it seems! lol Tongue in cheek there. -
Gblockwhy not just make Mexico part of the US?
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LJ
Yes, on reasonable suspicion it is illegal to make someone produce any kind of identifying documentation.redstreak one wrote: ^^^^^^ On reasonable suspicion, correct?
I agree that this is a slippery slope that can and has been abused. What I hope comes out of this State law is an uproar for our Federal Govt to finally take a stand one way or another. Its harder to come in off a cruise ship, than walk across the border, it seems! lol Tongue in cheek there. -
Writerbuckeye
Why on God's Earth would we want to bring in that much excessive poverty with little upside?Gblock wrote: why not just make Mexico part of the US?
We have enough problems without taking on tens of millions more. -
QuakerOatshttp://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/alien_WU7CcuvTMg4n2yBzWqSPMI
More of that ...................................... change we can believe in............... -
FatHobbit
35 days is way to long to detain someone without any sort of due process.QuakerOats wrote: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/alien_WU7CcuvTMg4n2yBzWqSPMI
More of that ...................................... change we can believe in...............
But I'd like to know where the $145,000 figure came from. And I'm not sure how this is Obama's fault. This guy was deported in 2007. -
ptown_trojans_1
Yeah, Quaker, explain the link to Obama and the reference to "change"? -
jhay78
Here's a great solution to avoid violating the "civil rights" of illegals:
"We just release them now," one high-ranking jail supervisor said. "It's ICE's problem to go find these guys."
Now that's a great solution right there. Forget enforcing racist laws, just let em roam the streets. -
FatHobbit
They're only legally allowed to hold them for so long. Should they detain them indefinitely until someone shows up to get them? If you want to be angry with someone, start with the people (ICE) who aren't doing what their jobs.jhay78 wrote: Here's a great solution to avoid violating the "civil rights" of illegals:
"We just release them now," one high-ranking jail supervisor said. "It's ICE's problem to go find these guys."
Now that's a great solution right there. Forget enforcing racist laws, just let em roam the streets. -
I Wear PantsFatHobbit wrote:
35 days is way to long to detain someone without any sort of due process.QuakerOats wrote: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/alien_WU7CcuvTMg4n2yBzWqSPMI
More of that ...................................... change we can believe in...............
But I'd like to know where the $145,000 figure came from. And I'm not sure how this is Obama's fault. This guy was deported in 2007. -
Belly35
this good
Dear Mr. Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.
I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico but I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U. S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help. You're the man!!!