As we prepare to enter a new year with a team that changed its manager and front office in the off-season to legitimate applause by me...and then has spent the duration of the time afterward seemingly operating under the hypothesis that doing that is easily going to be enough TO! CHANGE! EVERYTHING!, I want you all to read this snippet from mlb trade rumors, as it's the perfect capsule version of just how depressing everything is. Both in the names of the possible 3B signings (low-power utility guy Brock Holt! Todd Frazier and his "some power, not much else" bat!) and in the fact that our incumbent was no more than replacement-level caliber in over 500 FUCKING AT BATS.

The Pirates have shown “at least modest interest in the third-base market,” Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette writes. It seems adding a stopgap to help serve as a bridge to the Ke’Bryan Hayes era is possible. Speculatively, the likes of Brock Holt (a former Pirate whom new general manager Ben Cherington knows from Boston), Todd Frazier, Matt Duffy and Logan Forsythe are among the types who could interest Pittsburgh. But at least a couple of those players were no better in 2019 than incumbent starter Colin Moran, who was merely a replacement-level player across 503 plate appearances.

Yes, there hasn’t been much to cheer about the last few years of this once proud franchise. 

Bravo for this thread happening

Starling Marte now traded to Arizona for a pair of prospects who are both a long ways off (low A/rookie last year) even if highly regarded.

That puts an end to my hopes that if everything goes right as far as injuries and effectiveness, the team could at least give me false hope of being a contender for 1/2 to 2/3 of this season. Always fun to have that final iota of 2020 potential quashed before the season starts!

Dbacks already had a really good Marte

Totally unacceptable that the total payroll is only 43 million 

posted by geeblock

Totally unacceptable that the total payroll is only 43 million 

I read on Twitter via Dejan K. that it's just over 50M right now, which really isn't better considering the average payroll of teams -- even those who aren't seriously trying to compete. Especially when that includes things like the $1.5M they sent Arizona in order for them to take the deal for Marte. As an added bonus: the team is now hoping to acquire a new centerfielder to fill the hole left by Marte's loss.

That's what pisses me off the most (other than how my avatar is now completely obsolete with Marte joining Cutch in the "former Pirate" category). They still had 2 years of control on Marte, so they could have kept him. But they also figured they weren't going to compete this year and figured they'd get rid of him when his value was at its peak (with him having his best career year overall last year, this is good timing for that). And then traded him for two 19-year-olds who went between rookie and half-season A ball last year. Which means they traded a good current asset whom they'll need to quickly replace for two guys who are years away from being MLB ready. Assuming they ever are, as young prospects like that (doubly so for the pitcher) are a total crapshoot. If one of those two doesn't develop into an All-Star caliber player, they fucked themselves over in their zeal to follow the 76ers' "TRUST THE PROCESS!!!!" plan by giving up arguably their top asset for prospects who may or may not ever pan out.

Not too much to be excited about in ’20 for the Bucs.

posted by QuakerOats

Not too much to be excited about in ’20 for the Bucs.

 

Other than seeing if they can "beat" Baltimore and/or Detroit in the "let's see how historically bad we can be" race that those two have been waging against each other the last year or two, you are correct.

posted by Heretic

I read on Twitter via Dejan K. that it's just over 50M right now, which really isn't better considering the average payroll of teams -- even those who aren't seriously trying to compete. Especially when that includes things like the $1.5M they sent Arizona in order for them to take the deal for Marte. As an added bonus: the team is now hoping to acquire a new centerfielder to fill the hole left by Marte's loss.

That's what pisses me off the most (other than how my avatar is now completely obsolete with Marte joining Cutch in the "former Pirate" category). They still had 2 years of control on Marte, so they could have kept him. But they also figured they weren't going to compete this year and figured they'd get rid of him when his value was at its peak (with him having his best career year overall last year, this is good timing for that). And then traded him for two 19-year-olds who went between rookie and half-season A ball last year. Which means they traded a good current asset whom they'll need to quickly replace for two guys who are years away from being MLB ready. Assuming they ever are, as young prospects like that (doubly so for the pitcher) are a total crapshoot. If one of those two doesn't develop into an All-Star caliber player, they fucked themselves over in their zeal to follow the 76ers' "TRUST THE PROCESS!!!!" plan by giving up arguably their top asset for prospects who may or may not ever pan out.

That’s the hilarious part because by the time these guys are any good they will be playing for the Yankees 

posted by geeblock

That’s the hilarious part because by the time these guys are any good they will be playing for the Yankees 

Everything about the franchise is hilariously sad now. I think my personal favorite sad-but-funny with them is how their 2019 minor league pitcher of the year, James Marvel, was non-tendered off the 40-man after the season because his profile is basically "4-A player" where he'd be a minor league superstar, but doesn't have the stuff to be a legit major leaguer (ie: similar to virtually every pitcher they tried to get innings from through the 00s).

In really big free agency moves, the team signed Derek Holland and JT Riddle. That ought to add up to 2.5 wins BELOW replacement level.

Thanks for the memories, Lonnie!

One year, no time played, money taken. Ordinarily, I'd be pissed at that sort of theft, but as cheap as Nutting is, there's something appropriate about a player getting a contract and giving nothing other than a few spring training and minor league rehab assignment at-bats. For that one year, Lonnie was the player equal of what Nutting is as an owner -- taking resources and giving nothing in return.

posted by Heretic

Thanks for the memories, Lonnie!

One year, no time played, money taken. Ordinarily, I'd be pissed at that sort of theft, but as cheap as Nutting is, there's something appropriate about a player getting a contract and giving nothing other than a few spring training and minor league rehab assignment at-bats. For that one year, Lonnie was the player equal of what Nutting is as an owner -- taking resources and giving nothing in return.

Buyer beware on that one. Chiz has always been a china doll.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/03/mlbpa-has-initiated-second-grievance-against-pirates.html

New year, new MLBPA grievance against the team for being a cheap-ass franchise where every financial decision is based on how much $$$ will wind up lining Broke-Ass Bob Nutting's pockets.

What’s the Vegas over/under on wins?

63.5 for me but hope they don’t fall to the level of recent bottom dwellers that don’t even approach 60 wins and this trend seems to be growing 

I don’t want sucky teams below 65 wins 

posted by Ironman92

What’s the Vegas over/under on wins?

63.5 for me but hope they don’t fall to the level of recent bottom dwellers that don’t even approach 60 wins and this trend seems to be growing 

I don’t want sucky teams below 65 wins 

I think on the Reds thread, Justin posted a link to the Pecota projections where they were given credit for more wins than I'd have expected (mid 70s?). If not for the fact that Manfred is a giant pussy, I'd want them to be so horribly, aggressively putrid that the league feels forced to step in and either order them to actually try to get better or mandates that Nutting sells. But if he doesn't have the stones to go after cheating players, he's sure as hell not going to step in and make one of his owners do anything to make his team more competitive.

And so the hope is that after a couple shitty years, Cherington will be able to generate the resources to be a good, young team with players under team-friendly contracts OR that Nutting does the world a favor and dies and the team goes to someone who cares about something more than using it to generate revenue for himself.

Bucs still in the playoff hunt.

They've lasted longer than I expected!

Season actually starts today. Yay, I guess. Here's to 9-51!

I’m looking forward to Tribe vs. Pirates!

Good or bad I’m ready lol 

I will be following Newark,Ohio's own hometown hero- Derek Holland!!

posted by BRF

I’m looking forward to Tribe vs. Pirates!

Indians fans should be, what with the whole 3-0 record again in the three prelude to season games over the last week or so.

posted by Heretic

Indians fans should be, what with the whole 3-0 record again in the three prelude to season games over the last week or so.

I mean I am looking forward to having a Pirate fan to chat with on the Tribe thread when we play. 😀

0-1. But they tried!