posted by geeblock

Again I don’t think it was the left who made the argument right to your own body. It was the right. 

Were you asleep for 2 years?

posted by geeblock

Again I don’t think it was the left who made the argument right to your own body. It was the right.

Sure, sure.  Cops are murdering black people, too.  Goodness.

So far on this thread you have insinuations of racism, misogyny, and a "please sir can I have some more" attitude towards children.  All false distractions from the argument, does the constitution grant the federal government authority in this matter? 

Are there any pro life politicians advocating that the laws governing abortion in Texas or Alabama be compelled by the federal government on all 330+ million of its citizens?

posted by iclfan2

Were you asleep for 2 years?

Huh? The right has absolutely said my body my choice last two years. I know because I did not disagree.. my point is that the vast majority of people in this country on the right and left support roe vs wade. Given how close the elections were I think it will hurt gop. Imo people who voted red didn’t know they were voting to repeal roe v wade. Maybe I’m wrong. I believe in thr right to privacy in this matter. Unconditionally. I hate govt and we def don’t need more laws. 

A lot of people need to go back and look at their posts the last two years tho because they seem to now support thr govt controlling their medical decisions. 

That’s the thing. I don’t want the government telling me anything. The federal government was the dumbasses about public transportation. The free states obviously got more people to travel to. The beaches here in SC did their best years ever. The majority of America does not believe in abortion after 15 weeks. A lot of nonsense being spewed. 

posted by iclfan2

That’s the thing. I don’t want the government telling me anything. The federal government was the dumbasses about public transportation. The free states obviously got more people to travel to. The beaches here in SC did their best years ever. The majority of America does not believe in abortion after 15 weeks. A lot of nonsense being spewed. 

This lost me..public transportation? Not sure what this means.. I will pay whatever for a monorail from Columbus to Cleveland and Pittsburgh or however it goes 

posted by geeblock

First of all not all babies will be healthy and those babies don’t get adopted. Especially those born addicted. Also this is anecdotal but a girl from my high school and one in college threw their baby in a dumpster so I’m sure this will increase as well. So it’s not a fairytale ending for unwanted babies as you would paint it. You aren’t incorrect that most black babies that are healthy are likely to be adopted. 

Born with health problems are such a small percentage that’s it’s almost as bad an argument as the anecdotal ones. 

I saw a study that 99% of babies put up for adoption are adopted and don’t go into the foster system with 2 million+ couples still waiting.

There maybe a “drain” on the system with more “sick” babies not getting adopted that may have been aborted but to act like that will be a huge number and a drain on society is just not accurate based on the statistics.

Especially with 50+ percent of people live in blue/purple states that will never abolish abortion. 

posted by geeblock

Again I don’t think it was the left who made the argument right to your own body. It was the right. 

Left used it for their argument on abortion for decades.

The right used it as a joke to point out the hypocrisy of the left when they were wanting to force vaccines and masks.

Those are facts.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

It’s not a “reality”.  It hasn’t happened yet.  All these babies getting adopted would be great, but it’s a hypothetical until the time comes.

2 million couples waiting for adoption.

900,000 abortions per year.

At most 40% of people will be in red states that would abolish abortion as no blue or purple states will ban it. Even if we assume no women cross state lines that means the 900,000 abortions per year only drops by 40%, making 360,000 new babies born per year.

With 2 million couples on the waiting list that’s 5 and a half years of non-aborted babies just to clean up the current waiting list.

So simple math makes it not just a hypothetical but the probable reality that would happen if abortion was banned this year in all red states.

posted by geeblock

Huh? The right has absolutely said my body my choice last two years. I know because I did not disagree.. my point is that the vast majority of people in this country on the right and left support roe vs wade. Given how close the elections were I think it will hurt gop. Imo people who voted red didn’t know they were voting to repeal roe v wade. Maybe I’m wrong. I believe in thr right to privacy in this matter. Unconditionally. I hate govt and we def don’t need more laws. 

A lot of people need to go back and look at their posts the last two years tho because they seem to now support thr govt controlling their medical decisions. 

You’re still wrong.

47% of people identify as pro life in a recent study I saw. 49% as pro choice and 4% said they didn’t understand (no idea how).

So it isn’t the vast majority that support RvW, that is just factually incorrect.

You would be right if you said the vast majority are at least ok with abortions in the cases of rape, incest, and mother’s life. Only the far extreme right is not ok with abortion in even those cases.

But the vast majority does not support RvW, like I said, its not even a majority and it’s barely a plurality.

posted by jmog

Left used it for their argument on abortion for decades.

The right used it as a joke to point out the hypocrisy of the left when they were wanting to force vaccines and masks.

Those are facts.

A joke? Lol Jesus 

posted by jmog

You’re still wrong.

47% of people identify as pro life in a recent study I saw. 49% as pro choice and 4% said they didn’t understand (no idea how).

So it isn’t the vast majority that support RvW, that is just factually incorrect.

You would be right if you said the vast majority are at least ok with abortions in the cases of rape, incest, and mother’s life. Only the far extreme right is not ok with abortion in even those cases.

But the vast majority does not support RvW, like I said, its not even a majority and it’s barely a plurality.

We will see

posted by geeblock

We will see

This isn’t an opinion, this is based on studies. Almost half the country is pro-life even if that goes against your opinion

posted by jmog

2 million couples waiting for adoption.

900,000 abortions per year.

At most 40% of people will be in red states that would abolish abortion as no blue or purple states will ban it. Even if we assume no women cross state lines that means the 900,000 abortions per year only drops by 40%, making 360,000 new babies born per year.

With 2 million couples on the waiting list that’s 5 and a half years of non-aborted babies just to clean up the current waiting list.

So simple math makes it not just a hypothetical but the probable reality that would happen if abortion was banned this year in all red states.

My question wasn’t based on the current laws being changed in some states.  It was to do with a scenario where abortion became illegal everywhere tomorrow.  Your statistics while interesting are not a fail safe predictor because they assume a lot.  There are probably subtleties and nuance to adoptions (things I’m certainly no expert on) that can’t be measured until the circumstances happen - which may not come to pass.  As well, there’s no saying how many woman that would have gotten abortions will opt to keep their babies rather than give them up - even if their household is not ideal.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

My question wasn’t based on the current laws being changed in some states.  It was to do with a scenario where abortion became illegal everywhere tomorrow.  Your statistics while interesting are not a fail safe predictor because they assume a lot.  There are probably subtleties and nuance to adoptions (things I’m certainly no expert on) that can’t be measured until the circumstances happen - which may not come to pass.  As well, there’s no saying how many woman that would have gotten abortions will opt to keep their babies rather than give them up - even if their household is not ideal.  

A scenario where abortion becomes illegal everywhere tomorrow is asinine and not even worth talking about.

That is unless you don’t understand the leaked possible ruling and the Constitution.

If the ruling is true it relinquishes the law to the states just like it was before RvW. 

Knowing that reality, and combining that zero blue states and 99% change no purple states will overturn their laws, my numbers are right about what reality will look like.

Sorry, I try to live in the real world not in some dystopian fantasy that isn’t real.

The ruling, if real, says states choose, less than 40% of the people live in deep red states, so my numbers are about as accurate as can be. 

Even if it was 100% illegal everywhere the adoption backlog would still last over 2 years. 

posted by Heretic

I mean, if you're true left-wing, you should be (quietly) celebrating this. With how the secondary party tends to make gains when the other party holds the power combined with how Biden's approval rating is at a level where the word "approval" probably shouldn't be used to describe it, the Ds were looking FUBAR as far as at least the mid-terms go.

And now you have a hot-button issue to go all-out on the attack against, using all the Trump-level exaggerations and falsehoods imaginable in order to fire up the base and get people to the polls. I mean, if one Supreme Court leak is sufficient to dispel the apathy that Biden's presidency has generated, then that's a victory.

Because, today, that's all that politics are.

You’re smart enough to know the next outrage news cycle is only a month away, and the Dems will go full retard (already have) with their messaging, which will cancel out any gains they make from this leak. 

November is a long way from now, but I don’t see this being the mega shift some believe it will be.  A lot of people overestimate how important abortion is to the general voting public. 

posted by jmog

The 2 million couples on waiting lists for abortion will take care of the immediate “triage” need. The babies won’t end up in the foster care system like Kizer believes.

There's no list of people waiting to adopt. Of course, you knew that. There's estimates (which I'm sure you googled too) that say between 1 million and 2 million people. I can see why you chose 2 million since it helps your argument. For the sake of even helping your argument... lets assume 2 million is right (which of course, it isn't.) There's upwards of 1 mil abortions in the US... EVERY YEAR. There's already 400,000 kids who can't find homes...RIGHT NOW. even with a 2 million back log of people looking for adopt babies... how long do you think that's sustainable? It's not 2 million couples joining the list every year.  But the abortions happen...every year. Even when you factor some states won't outlaw it... abortions happen in every state. Even the red ones that vote against their interests.  If you look at only the 23 states that have some sort of abortion or trigger laws on the books or in place, last year there were 390k abortion just in those 23 states. When you factor in  a majority of abortions are other than white (33%) and adoption rates are much slower for non white babies... it doesn't take a math major to realize that number, totaling yearly, far outpaces adoption rates. But by all means.. keep your head in the sand.  

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/abortion-rates-by-state

posted by jmog

A scenario where abortion becomes illegal everywhere tomorrow is asinine and not even worth talking about.

That is unless you don’t understand the leaked possible ruling and the Constitution.

If the ruling is true it relinquishes the law to the states just like it was before RvW. 

Knowing that reality, and combining that zero blue states and 99% change no purple states will overturn their laws, my numbers are right about what reality will look like.

Sorry, I try to live in the real world not in some dystopian fantasy that isn’t real.

The ruling, if real, says states choose, less than 40% of the people live in deep red states, so my numbers are about as accurate as can be. 

Even if it was 100% illegal everywhere the adoption backlog would still last over 2 years. 

It was a hypothetical in order to ask a philosophical question.   

posted by kizer permanente

There's no list of people waiting to adopt. Of course, you knew that. There's estimates (which I'm sure you googled too) that say between 1 million and 2 million people. I can see why you chose 2 million since it helps your argument. For the sake of even helping your argument... lets assume 2 million is right (which of course, it isn't.) There's upwards of 1 mil abortions in the US... EVERY YEAR. There's already 400,000 kids who can't find homes...RIGHT NOW. even with a 2 million back log of people looking for adopt babies... how long do you think that's sustainable? It's not 2 million couples joining the list every year.  But the abortions happen...every year. Even when you factor some states won't outlaw it... abortions happen in every state. Even the red ones that vote against their interests.  If you look at only the 23 states that have some sort of abortion or trigger laws on the books or in place, last year there were 390k abortion just in those 23 states. When you factor in  a majority of abortions are other than white (33%) and adoption rates are much slower for non white babies... it doesn't take a math major to realize that number, totaling yearly, far outpaces adoption rates. But by all means.. keep your head in the sand.  

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/abortion-rates-by-state

You know you just reiterated what I said, with basically the same numbers, but tried to do it while pissed off and trying to refute what I said.

You can’t back me up angrily and try to pass it off as refuting me, it doesn’t work.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

It was a hypothetical in order to ask a philosophical question.   

In other words no where near the reality of what may happen. We could ask what will happen if 100% of this year’s babies are born with Down syndrome and how we would deal with that but it’s just a mind exercise that could never and would never happen.

Just like what yours is.

posted by jmog

You know you just reiterated what I said, with basically the same numbers, but tried to do it while pissed off and trying to refute what I said.

You can’t back me up angrily and try to pass it off as refuting me, it doesn’t work.

if you think what I posted agrees with your logic and reaffirms your logic, you're too far gone.

posted by jmog

You’re still wrong.

47% of people identify as pro life in a recent study I saw. 49% as pro choice and 4% said they didn’t understand (no idea how).

So it isn’t the vast majority that support RvW, that is just factually incorrect.

You would be right if you said the vast majority are at least ok with abortions in the cases of rape, incest, and mother’s life. Only the far extreme right is not ok with abortion in even those cases.

But the vast majority does not support RvW, like I said, its not even a majority and it’s barely a plurality.

posted by jmog

In other words no where near the reality of what may happen. We could ask what will happen if 100% of this year’s babies are born with Down syndrome and how we would deal with that but it’s just a mind exercise that could never and would never happen.

Just like what yours is.

It was a philosophical question as to whether pro life supporters have considered the ramifications of no abortions (or less abortions) on other facets of society.  It was not intended as some battle of logic.  I don’t know what else to say about it. 

posted by geeblock
I consider myself "pro-life"  I wouldnt want anyone to kill or abort a baby.  However that doesnt mean I believe that my beliefs should be forced upon others.  I firmly believe that people have the right to choose.  So IDK what exactly the parameters were of the questions on your survey.

So, what’s your red line?

posted by like_that

So, what’s your red line?

not sure i understand what you are asking.