posted by gut
Very dumb - just look at the tremendous success and benefits with the United Nations

You mean like getting rid of smallpox? 

The narrative for keeping the US in the League of Nations is we would have not let the French and British punish the Germans as much. Therefore, the county would have not had a weak Weimar Republic that saw the rise of Hitler. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

What chosen people? You mean the people that write our laws? The people you elect? 

It is like you are against any and all laws of man. 

I'm saying the modern laws and things like taxes are an extension of the social contract theory. How far those laws invade our personal space and property is up for debate, but as a citizen of the country, you agree to at the very least to the concept. 

The concept is stupid as contracts are voluntary agreements.

posted by queencitybuckeye

The concept is stupid as contracts are voluntary agreements.

Take a look at the countries that have zero or very low income taxes. The list is not impressive to say the least. The countries that would offer a quality of life similar to the US - almost without exception - have a higher tax rate than we do. That's a pickle for the "tax is stealing" crowd. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Take a look at the countries that have zero or very low income taxes. The list is not impressive to say the least. The countries that would offer a quality of life similar to the US - almost without exception - have a higher tax rate than we do. That's a pickle for the "tax is stealing" crowd. 

Not really.  Look again.  US has lower tax burdens, across the board, than the EU and most other OECD countries.  Want to guess how countries with higher tax burdens compare to the US in terms of economic growth, employment and average wages over the past 30 years?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

We all pay taxes, so there is no magic number.  If you consider it stealing, then I don't know what else to say to you. 

No magic number?  Yea there is, the problem is that politicians are too scared to tell you what they think.  

The fairest way to tax is to use a tax plan based on consumption.  

posted by Fletch

No magic number?  Yea there is, the problem is that politicians are too scared to tell you what they think.  

The fairest way to tax is to use a tax plan based on consumption.  

That's your opinion - the fairest way to tax that is. But that is not a fair way to do it in many people's eyes. A tough issue. 

posted by queencitybuckeye

The concept is stupid as contracts are voluntary agreements.

Yeah, It is in one sense, as you agree to be part of a civil society and a government. Therefore, as you agree to that contract and you agree to the laws that are established. You can always work to change those laws and the form of government, but you agree as a member of the society to that contract. 

You are a resident of a state and a citizen of the US. If you do not want to agree to that contract, fine, give up your citizenship. 

It seems like you just think there should be no government and every man for themselves. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

It seems like you just think there should be no government and every man for themselves. 

That's the ideal, I can't get there as a practical matter. I could live with what the country was supposed to be as founded. A federal government whose sole legal functions are specifically spelled out and cannot be expanded by anything but the amendment process. In short, to 1) protect my person, and 2) to protect my property (including from them).

posted by queencitybuckeye

That's the ideal, I can't get there as a practical matter. I could live with what the country was supposed to be as founded. A federal government whose sole legal functions are specifically spelled out and cannot be expanded by anything but the amendment process. In short, to 1) protect my person, and 2) to protect my property (including from them).

That is not how the country was founded. The whole crux of the Jefferson v. Hamilton/ Madison debate is the power of the government through the Amendment and law process. You are just taking the Jefferson point of view. My whole point is there is a whole other side of the argument that has been around since the founding of the country.  It seems like most people forget how divided our founding was and that the founders had deep disagreements on the nature of government and how it would function. 

You also acknowledge the Amendment process...which goes back to how this all started as Income Taxes are part of the Amendment process, Amendment #16.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

That is not how the country was founded. The whole crux of the Jefferson v. Hamilton/ Madison debate is the power of the government through the Amendment and law process. You are just taking the Jefferson point of view. My whole point is there is a whole other side of the argument that has been around since the founding of the country.  It seems like most people forget how divided our founding was and that the founders had deep disagreements on the nature of government and how it would function. 

You also acknowledge the Amendment process...which goes back to how this all started as Income Taxes are part of the Amendment process, Amendment #16.

It's settled, but ignored, that the government can simply pass laws the grant them powers not specifically enumerated in the constitution. Again, they are not allowed to do so, but can due to force.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

That's your opinion - the fairest way to tax that is. But that is not a fair way to do it in many people's eyes. A tough issue. 

Thats not my opinion....its the opinion of many.  Its a very objective way to tax....and likely the fairest.  If you spend a million dollars you pay the same % of tax as if you spent $1.

posted by Spock

Thats not my opinion....its the opinion of many.  Its a very objective way to tax....and likely the fairest.  If you spend a million dollars you pay the same % of tax as if you spent $1.

The point is that it's objective in your eyes, but others would disagree.  Lower income earners pay a higher tax rate on the same basic necessities.  

There may be no ideal (i.e. fair) way to tax a population.  I don't love paying my taxes.  But I also recognize that we are taxed at a lower rate than almost anywhere else I'd want to live.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

The point is that it's objective in your eyes, but others would disagree.  Lower income earners pay a higher tax rate on the same basic necessities.  

There may be no ideal (i.e. fair) way to tax a population.  I don't love paying my taxes.  But I also recognize that we are taxed at a lower rate than almost anywhere else I'd want to live.  

I don't believe "fair" exists, except as a matter of opinion. Is it fair that nearly half the population pay zero income tax? Some people would actually say yes to that, which is amazing to me.

posted by queencitybuckeye

I don't believe "fair" exists, except as a matter of opinion. Is it fair that nearly half the population pay zero income tax? Some people would actually say yes to that, which is amazing to me.

You're right about "fair".  Like we've always been told, "life's not fair".  Whatever that means, I believe it.  Striving for the best collective solution is okay, so long as we know nothing will satisfy everyone's wants and needs.  

Still won't forget that you badmouthed Don Vito Corleone.  That shit'll get you whacked if you're not careful.  You'll find yourself alongside Luca Brasi.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Still won't forget that you badmouthed Don Vito Corleone.  That shit'll get you whacked if you're not careful.  You'll find yourself alongside Luca Brasi. 

I can handle things. I’m smart. Not like everybody says, like dumb. I’m smart and I want respect!

posted by queencitybuckeye

No, I thought you said you're alright Spider.  I thought I heard someone say they're alright Spider. No I thought I heard you say I'm alright Spider 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Take a look at the countries that have zero or very low income taxes. The list is not impressive to say the least. The countries that would offer a quality of life similar to the US - almost without exception - have a higher tax rate than we do. That's a pickle for the "tax is stealing" crowd. 

....they may have a higher rate .......they may have a lower tax base

posted by QuakerOats

....they may have a higher rate .......they may have a lower tax base

The point is that there are no good alternatives if you don't like the taxes we pay here. 

This thread has been at the top of the list for 2-3 days straight. Are you all unemployed?

posted by Automatik

This thread has been at the top of the list for 2-3 days straight. Are you all unemployed?

Yes we are. 

Is calling it the South African variant and UK variant racist like calling it the China virus asking for a friend

posted by sportchampps

Is calling it the South African variant and UK variant racist like calling it the China virus asking for a friend

Solid posts

She almost died. pic.twitter.com/fhAHXA7THR

— Salty Cracker (@SaltyCracker9) February 7, 2021

posted by CenterBHSFan

She almost died. pic.twitter.com/fhAHXA7THR

— Salty Cracker (@SaltyCracker9) February 7, 2021

LOL