OHSAA New Proposal for Multiplier

• aged jock

  Expectations, academically, athletically and in service, are high at Alter. They're also high at Centerville, Fairmont, Bellbrook, Springboro, Carroll, Fenwick, CJ, Oakwood, etc., etc. We have to compete with those schools for students. Competition makes for strength.
  
  Why anybody wants to reduce competition because it exposes the weak is beyond me.
• Classyposter58

  

  aged jock;1441422 wrote:Haven't been here for awhile, but was surprised to find somebody complaining about my beloved Alter. As a football alum from the school's second class, I've seen Alter grow for 50 years.
  
  Alter has 120 kids on the team because they took all freshmen through seniors in the football program to the state championship games, to have a great experience. There are about 330 boys in the school (270 or so in grades 9-11). Alter competes with Centerville, Kettering Fairmont, Bellbrook, Oakwood, West Carrollton, Miamisburg and stragglers from a couple other public districts for students. The cool thing at Alter is to play sports, especially football, soccer and basketball, although baseball and boys' volleyball are big, too. A lot of the younger guys are getting into lacrosse. The country club sports (golf and tennis) are popular, too, but only a few guys are good enough to play.
  
  As for Chris Borland, he's the second last son of a very competitive family. Dad played college football at Miami. Older brothers played football and soccer - Mark was an All American soccer player at Wittenberg. The whole family went all the way through St. Albert's and Alter. Dad was scoutmaster at the Church scout troop for several years, and coached grade school sports with his kids.
  
  Chris is the hardest working weightlifter I ever saw. He's not very tall, and seeing him early in high school you never would have predicted his college success. He epitomizes the Alter model: work hard and play with intensity. Chris's example spurred the rest of the team to work hard. But the secret of Alter's back-to-back state championships, in addition to Chris, were the Boucher brothers. Austin gathered the team and challenged them to win state. He also told them that anybody out running around on weekends, doing things they shouldn't, would be found out and kicked off the team. Colin was the defensive leader until he broke his leg in the Fairmont win (first game of the season) his senior year. Then Austin changed his jersey number to Colin's, and led the team, along with Chris and a strong team effort, to win back to back.
  
  All in all it's a great sports success story. They beat a good Steubenville team and a great Chagrin team those two years.
  
  So sorry for your bad luck in meeting the Knights.
  
  This year we hope for great senior leadership again. Hope to see you at the end of the season.

  Yes but at my school we did the same thing as all of our kids Freshman-Senior dress nightly. That's the thing, Alter is routinely competing with a team like Centerville, than going into the D3 or D4 playoffs and rolling.
  
  Or when VASJ was alleyooping all game over small town Leipsic in the D4 state title Poor little small Leipsic, like most D4 schools, but you've got an inner city team that could possibly contend for a D2 title, just rolling to like a 30 point win
• redstreak one

  

  aged jock;1443065 wrote:Expectations, academically, athletically and in service, are high at Alter. They're also high at Centerville, Fairmont, Bellbrook, Springboro, Carroll, Fenwick, CJ, Oakwood, etc., etc. We have to compete with those schools for students. Competition makes for strength.
  
  Why anybody wants to reduce competition because it exposes the weak is beyond me.

  So factors outside a schools ability to control means they are weak? You probably have turned on the news and watched these poor people living in squallor, struggling to put food on the table and clothe their kids. The child that gets off the bus at Piketon that hasnt eaten since the school day before counts the same as the doctors kid that walks through places like Alter.
  
  No one wants to drag teams down, we want to see the PLAY UP! I love the quote on Alters website that says the school consists mostly of kids from families of professionals! lol
  
  There are thousands of studies that show that academic success hinges on a lot of factors, poverty being one of them, and I have researched for about 30 minutes last night and found several that found correlation to athletic success, and people act like private schools that restrict enrollment from students who are poor or disabled are on a level playing field with schools like Piketon which lie in the poorest county in the State!
• redstreak one

  

  10 more minutes of research and more articles on how poverty affects a students academic and extra curricular chances!
  
  http://www.urban.org/publications/900869.html
  
  "For many children, participation in extracurricular activities is not an option, because of economic constraints, limited opportunities in neighborhoods or schools, or a parent's need for assistance at home. Changes in welfare may affect family economic resources and family schedules. With more income, families may be able to afford activities and lessons for their children, or they may enroll children in schools where activities are more readily available. However, the demands of parental work may increase children's obligations at home, thereby limiting their participation in extracurricular activities."
  
  The study showed nearly 17% difference in participation rate.
  
  http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/archivepgs/86.htm
  
  "After-school programs can provide constructive activities for children with working parents, yet cost and availability are often critical barriers for low-income families."
• redstreak one

  

  "The Effects Poverty Has on Cognitive Development in Elementary School ,

  1. · Little participation in extra curricular activities "
     
     faculty.tamu-commerce.edu/jthompson/524/​Poverty.doc
• aged jock

  So is this about poverty? Then Oakwood should be D1! So should Chagrin! And Glenville should be D4? Thurgood Marshall should be D7?
  
  There's no way you're going to adjust for poverty or affluence. Alter is an outstanding school, and is fortunate to serve successful, happy families.
  
  So maybe we should have a division for poor schools and one for rich schools. We tried that with the proposal that adjusted for number of free lunch students. For whatever reason (probably the success penalty - tradition factor, whatever you want to call it), it didn't pass.
  
  I wouldn't be against such a system. And Alter will compete wherever it's placed, so I'm not worried about it. But a school with a handful of good athletes can't compete week in, week out with a school that has 25 on its team. That should be the goal of whatever system is used. So far I haven't seen anything that improves on what we have now.
• sherm03

  

  aged jock;1443547 wrote:So is this about poverty? Then Oakwood should be D1! So should Chagrin! And Glenville should be D4? Thurgood Marshall should be D7?
  
  There's no way you're going to adjust for poverty or affluence. Alter is an outstanding school, and is fortunate to serve successful, happy families.
  
  So maybe we should have a division for poor schools and one for rich schools. We tried that with the proposal that adjusted for number of free lunch students. For whatever reason (probably the success penalty - tradition factor, whatever you want to call it), it didn't pass.
  
  I wouldn't be against such a system. And Alter will compete wherever it's placed, so I'm not worried about it. But a school with a handful of good athletes can't compete week in, week out with a school that has 25 on its team. That should be the goal of whatever system is used. So far I haven't seen anything that improves on what we have now.

  The poverty thing does not hold water with me. I'll point to Ursuline...a school that most complain about in these arguments...and highlight that they have quite a few voucher students and, if I remember correctly, somewhere over 70% reduced lunch students.
  
  Yes, kids from poorer families have a lot of stuff going on. But people make it like city schools can't even field teams.
• redstreak one

  

  70%? LOL, try 19% for Ursuline, you can find those figures on ODE's website under the free lunch program! Dont let facts get in the way!
• sherm03

  

  redstreak one;1443604 wrote:70%? LOL, try 19% for Ursuline, you can find those figures on ODE's website under the free lunch program! Dont let facts get in the way!

  You're right. It's been a while since I've looked at those figures. Ursuline is at 27%.
  
  But as I look through this list, I feel bad for those supporters of St. Ignatius. That school is chalk full of poorer kids (over 90% free and reduced lunch). According to everything you are saying, it's going to be tough for them to even field a team...
• redstreak one

  

  Ursuline High Sch
  00053934 IRN
  427 (CE) current enrollment
  114 Applicants receiving lunch
  26.70 %
  
  You will notice the (CE) current enrollment for ursuline is right at the correct number for boys and girls grades 9-12.
  
  This is St. Ignatius' number line from that document.
  
  St Ignatius
  00056051 IRN
  305 (CE) current enrollment
  280 Applicants receiving lunch
  91.80%
  
  You will notice that they have Ignatius' enrollment at 305, while in truth it is actually 1450. The only reason that I can figure out is maybe something to do with the wording on the top of the document that says " Current Enrollment (CE) – highest daily number of students with access to the program" The key words being Access to the program.
  
  If you divide the total receiving 280 by the actual enrollment of 1450 you get 19% ! lol
• sherm03

  

  redstreak one;1443780 wrote:Ursuline High Sch
  00053934 IRN
  427 (CE) current enrollment
  114 Applicants receiving lunch
  26.70 %
  
  You will notice the (CE) current enrollment for ursuline is right at the correct number for boys and girls grades 9-12.
  
  This is St. Ignatius' number line from that document.
  
  St Ignatius
  00056051 IRN
  305 (CE) current enrollment
  280 Applicants receiving lunch
  91.80%
  
  You will notice that they have Ignatius' enrollment at 305, while in truth it is actually 1450. The only reason that I can figure out is maybe something to do with the wording on the top of the document that says " Current Enrollment (CE) – highest daily number of students with access to the program" The key words being Access to the program.
  
  If you divide the total receiving 280 by the actual enrollment of 1450 you get 19% ! lol

  You got me. Poor kids suck at football and poor districts can't field teams.
• queencitybuckeye

  The proposal goes down. 327-308
• 1486wd

  Too bad, it made more sense than anything proposed so far.
• Summa

  1486wd;1443829 wrote:Too bad, it made more sense than anything proposed so far.

  No. It was actually the most idiotic nonsensical proposal to date.
• fish82

  

  Dave Rice is in full meltdown mode...he's pretty much an embarrassment to the Triway district at this point. Do the good citizens there have any options to can this toolbag?
• jaco

  My favorite quote by Rice is that OHSAA needs to show leadership and present the schools with an either/or option: weighted system or separate playoffs. This guy is too much. His weighted proposal just got voted down, so his alternative plan is that "no" shouldn't be an option. He's making a fool of himself.
  And the funniest part is one of Triway's best players ever, Larry Benning, was a Wooster transfer. And in their last playoff run they had a certain unnamed player who was a 19 year old senior, pushing 20. No abuse of the system there, Mr. Rice. These guys are hypocrites.
• redstreak one

  

  This latest amendment was placed on the ballot by the ohsaa, not the Wayne county superintendents! After the 2nd failed amendment, the Wayne supers planned on putting the seperation to a vote, but Ross and the ohsaa worked it out with them to try another competitive balance formula, which obviously failed.
  
  I say let schools vote on a split, then let the chips fall where they may!
  
  I have said for years that the southeast district should just split anyway and form their own association! lol
• Bigdogg

  redstreak one;1444296 wrote:This latest amendment was placed on the ballot by the ohsaa, not the Wayne county superintendents! After the 2nd failed amendment, the Wayne supers planned on putting the seperation to a vote, but Ross and the ohsaa worked it out with them to try another competitive balance formula, which obviously failed.
  
  I say let schools vote on a split, then let the chips fall where they may!
  
  I have said for years that the southeast district should just split anyway and form their own association! lol

  Unfortunally, it looks like the best option left now is a vote for seperation. I hope it fails but I have my doubts.
• Rocket08

  redstreak one;1444296 wrote:
  I say let schools vote on a split, then let the chips fall where they may!

  They already did, it failed. So why don't you "let the chips fall where they may"
  

  redstreak one;1444296 wrote: I have said for years that the southeast district should just split anyway and form their own association! lol

  Don't let the door hit you on the way out
  
  We won't even know you're gone
• ts1227

  

  The entire state south of I-70 could split off from the OHSAA and no one would notice
  
  The Cincinnati schools operate in their own universe anyway. Just go read Yappi for 5 minutes
• redstreak one

  

  If I let rocket, who would be here to prove you wrong and watch you melt down? lol
• Rocket08

  The whiney little putzes from Wayne County are the one's melting down, not me.
  
  I'm good
  
  You're zero for whatever
  
  And by the way, when/ if you ever prove me wrong, make sure that you let me know, because it hasn't happened yet
• steubbigred

  futball be bery bery good to me