Week 14: Bishop Hartley (11-2) vs. Kettering Alter (11-2)

• Be Nice

  ^^^good one, skank. lol
• HSFootball#1Fan

  Be Nice;571565 wrote:...but are you sure, coach? lol
  
  Seriously, I'm not mad. Not at all. If they want to recruit then so be it. We all know this gives the privates an unfair advantage.
  
  You don't like my posts? That's fine. You have the choice to not read them. My feelings won't be hurt. However, you must realize many, many public school coaches, administrators, players, parents and fans feel the exact same way I do.

  
  And you definetly have the right to be upset and people do break the rules and the system should be set up as fair as possible. But if you want to be fair then I think you should take in consideration that some schools do play fair and it is unfair for you to group those who do with those who don't. You should be able to look at the other side as well... I think I get your point, and it is valid. It's not that people have kids on their team illegally (private and public) but that private schools can "recruit" those students in 8th grade while public schools cannot? On a serious note, am I correct? My point is that public schools can do the same thing. If you have a great school, then go out and market it!! Do you ever see these public schools doing it? Not really. Most sit by and say we'll get who we get. Go out and market the courses your school offers, go out and market the success of your schools' athletic teams. That is not illegal recruiting. But it is not always easy as it sounds and the private schools that follow the rules have to convince parents that their school is good enough for them to have to pay 8 grand or more a year to go there where a public school is free.
• Be Nice

  "....public schools can do the same thing" ? Explain that to us.
• HSFootball#1Fan

  They can market their school. Have you seen private schools market their school in the public? I have. Have you really seen publics school do that? Not really. I think it would help a lot more than people think. Hilliard Davidson has great athletic programs. I'm not sure that they really market their schools to the public (I could be naive to this). I'll tell you this, I bet you that there are some people that probably change their location in Hilliard to make sure there son or daughter goes to Davidson. If they marketed their school more, I bet this would happen even more. Is there anything wrong with this? Absolutely not.
  
  If you want to get real deep in this, public schools could have a great advantage that has been crippled by the public and the way the school systems handles students. They usually have a lot better facilities (I know this is not always the truth). Then you get in to the part where people complain about private schools turning kids away and public schools can't. Most private schools are more apt to get rid of students after they have already gone through a year. They don't really turn people away. They need the $$$. They get rid of kids that are selfish and are a distraction to other kids. Something that the public schools should do. These parents and kids think they have a "right" to be there. You and many people may disagree with this but that's how I feel.
  
  Again, I can see your point and it's valid to an extent, however, those private schools that play by the rules, I don't feel have an advantage
• Be Nice

  Seriously, I like your rebuttals. There are 2 sides to every coin.
• HSFootball#1Fan

  Taken from OHSAA
  4-9-3
  All member high schools are permitted to mass market their entire high school program and all
  of its elements for the purpose of informing and recruiting students.
• HSFootball#1Fan

  I wouldn't mind sitting down and really debating this to get to a nice medium or agree to disagree stance
• Apple

  

  HSFootball#1Fan;571648 wrote:I wouldn't mind sitting down and really debating this to get to a nice medium or agree to disagree stance

  I wouldn't mind debating the game between my Knights and your Hawks right here on this thread! I've heard some very impressive things about Hartley, especially about the stud at RB who has rushed for over 2000 yards.
  
  Knowing what I do about Alter, I can honestly say that no one on the team, be it player, coach or family member is taking Hartley lightly. You don't get to the Final Four if you are not a VERY good team.
  
  Both Alter and Hartley can, and have been beaten. Hartley came back strong in defeating Ironton. The Alter loss to CJ in game 10 has thus far, been a wake-up call to the team and they are more focused than ever this season on winning... (see the J. Alder and Kenton games if you have any doubts).
  
  Given the style of football both of these teams employ, my guess is that this will be a knock-out, drag-out game that ultimately is won by the team who has the best defense.
  
  Good luck to both teams!
• OhioStud22

  Good luck to Alter and Bishop Hartley I just hate it when people hate on Hartley still and they are in the final four
• meltedcd

  Hydration is the key.
• aged jock

  The level of hatred directed at the Catholic schools is unbelievable to me, and unwarranted. Catholic schools exist because of all the anti-Catholic religious statements that were made in the 19th century in the Eastern U.S. public schools, and because the Catholic bishops wanted to protect the kids from what they considered was false religious teaching at the time. Over the centuries the Catholic school traditions have developed into the major source of competition for public schools, and a place for Catholic kids to learn Catholic religious traditions.
  
  The fact that the Catholic schools compete in sports against the public schools makes both stronger. I can see an advantage for Catholic schools versus public schools in that public schools must try to educate everyone, and the Catholic schools have to charge tuition. The result is that there is a higher percentage of kids in public schools who have special needs and can't play sports, or who don't care about school, sports or anything else. Other than that, public schools are FREE. Catholic schools cost a lot of bucks. Parents who send their kids to Catholic schools obviously believe it's worth it. I'm a product of Catholic schools through 12th grade and somewhat beyond, and my wife and kids are also. I also support our local public school district.
  
  Why the hatred?
• aged jock

  Being very familiar with Alter, I can vouch that there is no illegal recruiting at Alter. Looking at the roster, with the parishes and grade schools the kids attended, you can see there are only a couple of kids from outside the Catholic feeder schools that provide most of the Alter families. I wish Alter got as many kids who attended public grade schools as the public high schools get from Alter Catholic feeder schools.
  
  There are some students at Alter who get reduced or even totally free tuition. There is no consideration about what extracurriculars those kids might have any interest in. I'm not aware of any players on the football who get scholarships or grants or reduced tuition. Some scholarships are given to the top one or two students in the Catholic feeder grade schools, strictly on academic merit. Some of the students have reduced or paid tuition because of family need. No one gets athletic scholarships or grants.
  
  Alter needs every dime of tuition money, so there's not a lot of slush fund going around.
  
  How a public school that's FREE somehow complains that somebody chooses to pay tuition of over $8,000 a year to attend a Catholic school is unfair competition, I'll never understand. My son chose to play football at Alter and was second team All-GCL. But I didn't send him to Alter for sports, and my daughter, who was a National Merit Semifinalist, although she was 5-11, chose not to participate in sports. She found the color guard and winter guard and the arts, which was just fine with me.
  
  My daughter didn't want to go to Alter, but after she finished college, she appreciated the education she obtained there. I would send any child to Alter anytime, with confidence. Do we still have the right to decide where our kids will go to school?
• Leonardo

  

  Calpreps.com projects Kettering Alter to win, 31-21
• Be Nice

  Alter wins this one before a packed house of 190 people.
• Alma_Parker

  Why do you care how many people attend? Are you trying to make the point that somehow these teams are extraordinary despite the fact that their schools have lots of competing activities and they're not quite as wrapped around football as a be-all as other schools? It's hard to tell what you're trying to say, other than it sure seems to be some sort of vaguely anti-Catholic swipe. Can you be more clear?
• Be Nice

  My wife is Catholic. I have nothing against Catholics. And to be more clear... many of us don't like the way Catholic schools, football wise, "play the system".
• ts1227

  

  Alma_Parker;576269 wrote:Why do you care how many people attend? Are you trying to make the point that somehow these teams are extraordinary despite the fact that their schools have lots of competing activities and they're not quite as wrapped around football as a be-all as other schools? It's hard to tell what you're trying to say, other than it sure seems to be some sort of vaguely anti-Catholic swipe. Can you be more clear?

  
  I think he's suggesting more that schools that are private and have no boundaries tend to not have the big support in general because the students hail from like 15 different towns, there isn't a sense of community. It's just a product of the system.
• lennyrox55

  Hartley wins 29-28 on 2 point conversion
• OhioStud22

  Man I tell you what you guys are the worst people at predictions I told you every post you guys have that's hating on Hartley it just gets them even more pumped up and loook at the outcome Hartley is in the state finals I really wish you guys would know both teams before you guys are predicting blowouts thats what hartley has been hearing all through the playoffs since R1 and they are still flying high. Let me guess what your guys score will be this week Chagrin Falls 50 Hartley 0...Pathetic
• etak

  Wow! What a game! ...and what a thread - I've never seen so many sour grapes to be passed out be "be nice" . After reading his threads, I'd say he needs to be reminded of his user name. Sadly, no one in this thread's debate has mentioned the quality education available to all students whose parent's opt for a parochial education (for whatever reason). Also, it's my opinion that "be nice" is seriously misinformed if he thinks that Parochial schools have recruiting dollars laying around for potential football stars. Compare their teachers' annual salaries to that of public educators and you'll see the fallacy with that notion. I'm confident that most parents of any football player are comparing the educational systems of any prospective school more than their football programs. Alas, I'm thinking that "be nice" is exhibiting the scary new American mindset of settling for mediocrity in the name of fairness, rather than rising to the occasion and being your best, win or lose. I hope I'm wrong about that. Way to go Hartley!
• riders1

  

  Alma_Parker;576269 wrote:Why do you care how many people attend? Are you trying to make the point that somehow these teams are extraordinary despite the fact that their schools have lots of competing activities and they're not quite as wrapped around football as a be-all as other schools? It's hard to tell what you're trying to say, other than it sure seems to be some sort of vaguely anti-Catholic swipe. Can you be more clear?

  
  He is probably refering to those who came to see the halftime band show.
• Alma_Parker

  Anybody who thought Hartley wasn't tough was just confused; the way they did so much better in the second Ironton game should be clue enough, as that team knows how to prepare. Especially their lead back, who just hammered away in that second Ironton game, with more than five yards a carry. Meanwhile the whole anti-Catholic school thing is just that. Lots of hot air, not many facts, quite a bit of jealousy. Generalization isn't safe, but spend some time understanding these schools and you'll notice that, even if they aren't as focused on football as some of the public schools, they have a passionate set of leaders and parents and a very strong sense of community. Usually most or all of the parents are paying a substantial tuition bill which comes after paying all their local taxes (and thus spots for their kids which go unused in the corresponding schools), so you can be sure they are interested. The teachers and coaches are often doing it at least a bit more out of passion, as they typically have no union contract to protect them from low-quality work, etc. I don't know much about Alter, which seems to attract a particularly large share of this kind of griping, but I've seen multiple challenges for folks to name kids who were 'recruited' or didn't go to the right feeder elementary schools, and nobody (BeNice or anybody else) every comes up with anything.
• etak

  Alma_Parker;578626 wrote:Anybody who thought Hartley wasn't tough was just confused; the way they did so much better in the second Ironton game should be clue enough, as that team knows how to prepare. Especially their lead back, who just hammered away in that second Ironton game, with more than five yards a carry. Meanwhile the whole anti-Catholic school thing is just that. Lots of hot air, not many facts, quite a bit of jealousy. Generalization isn't safe, but spend some time understanding these schools and you'll notice that, even if they aren't as focused on football as some of the public schools, they have a passionate set of leaders and parents and a very strong sense of community. Usually most or all of the parents are paying a substantial tuition bill which comes after paying all their local taxes (and thus spots for their kids which go unused in the corresponding schools), so you can be sure they are interested. The teachers and coaches are often doing it at least a bit more out of passion, as they typically have no union contract to protect them from low-quality work, etc. I don't know much about Alter, which seems to attract a particularly large share of this kind of griping, but I've seen multiple challenges for folks to name kids who were 'recruited' or didn't go to the right feeder elementary schools, and nobody (BeNice or anybody else) every comes up with anything.

  Well said Alma_Parker - notice that BeNice is no where around anymore?
• Be Nice

  ^^^Wrong etak and Miss Alma. I'm right here. Haven't gone anywhere. ^^^last sentence in the above box..."(Be Nice or anybody else) every (it's ever) comes up with anything. Wrong again!!!!!!
  
  In this weeks USA Today sports section dated November 26, 27 and 28 and I'll quote...The Ohio High School Athletic Association placed Elyria Catholic on probation for three years for VIOLATION OF RECRUITING RULES IN FOOTBALL. Those are the exact words in the article.
  
  lol lol lol lol lol lol lol What do you have to say now? Ate some words didn't you? You recruit and you self deneyers know it. Basically, you are a bunch of cheats. Myself and others know what you Catholic schools do. Elyria Catholic got caught and so will others. And look at the penalty the balless OHSAA gave them. Three years probation. What a joke. Truth be known the majority of the OHSAA board is probably Catholic. As I've mentioned in previous posts players, coaches, administrators, fans and others are tired of this. I talked to a few coaches this fall and there is a movement underway to stop the BS.
• etak

  So what I determine from your most recent post, "be nice" is that you feel that public schools should have a football conference separate from parochial schools because they can't compete? I guess I was right then, in my theory about you - that you'd rather your public school athletes (of which I am the mother of 3) have a W in the column rather than risk a loss in a challenge against the best of the best. Sorry , not me. That's mediocrity at it's finest, which is the whole problem with the public school system on the whole. And by the way - I thought this thread was about Hartley vs. Kettering - when you can demonstrate to me THEIR recruiting violations, then I will listen to your argument. As you say, their are 2 sides to every coin.
  
  One more thing...in your above post you certainly resort to lumping "us all" into your little stereotypes (I thought you didn't have anything against Catholics - yeah right) . Why don't you just....be nice.