Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football
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skank
Alma_Parker;592066 wrote:For the record I don't feel that way at all. Massillon is a storied program and its supporters have a lot to be proud of. I have terrific memories from being in their stadium in the 70s and 80s and 90s watching state title games. Watching Spielman's last game in the horseshoe was a chance of a lifetime. They are truly impressive. But skank is stuck on why Massillon can't do even better for a misguided reason. And then he directly insulted a program I happed to be fond of and so I got a bit riled up. Ironton is also one of the storied football towns and Ironton HS is a very accomplished team. It's fun with numbers to show that they have a better record against a hard enough schedule to outpoint Massillon consistently. It's skank who doesn't respect Ironton or programs like it. Ironton has the winningest coach in Ohio history and they classically get minimal respect from schools up north (they know how to read the hometown papers down there) and skank has the same attitude. Meanwhile instead of feeling screwed by having to play big games four or five hours from home or getting intimidated, they just show up and do their best and some years surprise folks a little. skank doesn't need to attack Ironton as he did to try and make his point, but he chose to.
Long live Massillon I hope they thrive. And that their fans support them even when they play a private school. And that their fans respect Kenton and Orrville and Coldwater and others even if they play what skank calls 'small ball.'
www.irontonfootball.com
Dude, you cast the first stone toward Massillon, so don't sit behind your computer screen and play the victim. When Ironton makes the playoffs, they have a ceiling in their division, correct? Sure they play some parochials, but theres that ceiling that only allows for so much of a difference in enrollment, when Massillon makes the playoffs, you got the parochial advantage thing AND schools with over 1000 boys in their school. for instance, when Massillon played St. X in 05 for the title....Ironton was closer in enrollment to Massillon, (despite being several divisions lower), than Massillon was to St. X. Then, you got the whole PA situation. Why not have your Ad call and schedule us if you're feeling so brave, remember though, don't let YOUR mouth write a check.... -
etakqueencitybuckeye;592863 wrote:Is that why it smells like french fries in here?
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etakqueencitybuckeye;592863 wrote:Is that why it smells like french fries in here?
LOL!! -
skank
queencitybuckeye;592863 wrote:Is that why it smells like french fries in here?
Classless elitist post, are you saying that you are a better person than someone who works at McDonalds or BK? See, this is what I've been saying all along. -
ThinthickbigredIts alright to smell like fish on Fridays after the games though ...Hold the tartar....
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Alma_Parkerskank;592870 wrote:Dude, you cast the first stone toward Massillon, so don't sit behind your computer screen and play the victim. When Ironton makes the playoffs, they have a ceiling in their division, correct? Sure they play some parochials, but theres that ceiling that only allows for so much of a difference in enrollment, when Massillon makes the playoffs, you got the parochial advantage thing AND schools with over 1000 boys in their school. for instance, when Massillon played St. X in 05 for the title....Ironton was closer in enrollment to Massillon, (despite being several divisions lower), than Massillon was to St. X. Then, you got the whole PA situation. Why not have your Ad call and schedule us if you're feeling so brave, remember though, don't let YOUR mouth write a check....
Here I'm just not sure what you're saying. If it is that St. Xavier has more than 3X the enrollment of Massillon (Massillon is more than 3X Ironton), and that makes them really tough to beat, I can feel for that. Obviously the ratios on D-I and D-VI of largest to smallest can make that tough. And yes, even if Ironton "plays up" a fair amount during the regular season, the playoffs feature teams more-closely bunched. That issue makes a lot more sense to me personally than the public/private thing. Having a "super D-I" might help Massillon's chances a lot but then it just recreates the situation in that group, but I understand. On the last point/taunt, I have no idea what to say. I don't know what the "PA thing" even is, as it pertains to Ironton and/or Massillon, and I'm not sure I understand the point about Ironton schedulling Massillon. My point has never been that the "small ball" publics (your words) should be thrown into D-I, and I didn't think that was your point, even if you think all the catholics should be in D-I. Or am I confused? Do you really want the small publics to have to play Massillon and meanwhile Massillon not to have to play folks bigger than they? I'm just not sure where your're trying to go now. Feel free to say anything nice about anybody other than Massillon at any point.skank;592870 wrote:Dude, you cast the first stone toward Massillon, so don't sit behind your computer screen and play the victim.
Weird, I must have forgotten this part; all I remember is you suddently daring a little D-IV school to man up and play Massillon, impugning their character generally. The way I remember it, it came pretty much out of nowhere. Even if you were confused about what I felt about Massillon as a program, that should have been remedied by my post above, where I praise them. Now "victim" gets used a lot on here, but callling the guy who is fighting for his team's right to continue to do battle with the broad mix of publics and privates a vicitim is a littlel odd. If trying to convince you that you'll ruin for Kenton and Versailles and Ironton if you force them to play in a lesser division is victimhood, I guess I'll take that. I think the keen observer here would note that I respect Massillon, I'm just not crazy about your idea of getting them champsionships by monkeying with the brackets. Meanwhile you don't show much respect for the catholic programs or the smaller publics (Coldwater, Valley View, Ironton) who have perennial power. You call it "small ball" or state plainly that you don't care about anybody not D-I. When I gave you plenty of data that said, just maybe, Ironton played a pretty strong schedule and had a pretty solid record, you admitted nothing, but instead kept insulting me and that team. Odd, given you are dissing a team that outpoints yours with 1/3 the enrollment. Maybe you can fess up? Do you really resent the small publics who perform, too, not just the catholics? I mean you must thing somebody besides your own team is good, huh?
When Ironton makes the playoffs, they have a ceiling in their division, correct? Sure they play some parochials, but theres that ceiling that only allows for so much of a difference in enrollment, when Massillon makes the playoffs, you got the parochial advantage thing AND schools with over 1000 boys in their school. for instance, when Massillon played St. X in 05 for the title....Ironton was closer in enrollment to Massillon, (despite being several divisions lower), than Massillon was to St. X. Then, you got the whole PA situation. Why not have your Ad call and schedule us if you're feeling so brave, remember though, don't let YOUR mouth write a check.... -
etakThinthickbigred;592923 wrote:Its alright to smell like fish on Fridays after the games though ...Hold the tartar....
LOL! -
Alma_Parkerskank;592883 wrote:Classless elitist post, are you saying that you are a better person than someone who works at McDonalds or BK? See, this is what I've been saying all along.
Can you get me a discount? They don't do the dollar menu anymore... -
etakAlma_Parker;592940 wrote:Can you get me a discount? They don't do the dollar menu anymore...
Cmon now, we all know skank doesn't work there - he sells juice boxes. Anyway, I'm off to work at the fast food joint - I assemble the fish sandwiches.
It's been alot of fun - very educational - and hopefully we'll all remember that there are much bigger problems to solve in this crazy world of ours...with God's help. Best to all, including you, skank. -
Al Bundyskank;592836 wrote:Ok....one....last....time....WE, as in 'us'....as in Massillon....Still with me? We, aren't the ones....who...."gave the dad a job. Understand? See, Massillon has NO connection to Diebold, none whatsoever. If they....Meaning Diebold, transfered Mr. Kempt to the Ohio plant, do you think there is a chance that maybe....just maybe, they have transfered other people from plants throughout the country to the Ohio plant? People who's kids do not play football?
I was just asking if you would OK with a private school finding jobs for the parents of out-of-state kids to bring them into their programs? You seem to have a double standard on a lot of things. -
skank
Alma_Parker;592938 wrote:Here I'm just not sure what you're saying. If it is that St. Xavier has more than 3X the enrollment of Massillon (Massillon is more than 3X Ironton), and that makes them really tough to beat, I can feel for that. Obviously the ratios on D-I and D-VI of largest to smallest can make that tough. And yes, even if Ironton "plays up" a fair amount during the regular season, the playoffs feature teams more-closely bunched. That issue makes a lot more sense to me personally than the public/private thing. Having a "super D-I" might help Massillon's chances a lot but then it just recreates the situation in that group, but I understand. On the last point/taunt, I have no idea what to say. I don't know what the "PA thing" even is, as it pertains to Ironton and/or Massillon, and I'm not sure I understand the point about Ironton schedulling Massillon. My point has never been that the "small ball" publics (your words) should be thrown into D-I, and I didn't think that was your point, even if you think all the catholics should be in D-I. Or am I confused? Do you really want the small publics to have to play Massillon and meanwhile Massillon not to have to play folks bigger than they? I'm just not sure where your're trying to go now. Feel free to say anything nice about anybody other than Massillon at any point.
Hey buddy, don't make things tougher than they are, St X has 1171 boys....Massillon has 553....1171 minus 553 = 618....Massillon has 553 boys....Ironton has 182 boys....553 minus 182 = 371. -
Red Rider Nation
I am tired of talking about massillon football - that is the most overrated program in Ohio. In 1999 they recruited a D4 QB that won a state title and thought he was the greates thing since sliced bread - newsflash tigers: he had a better team at orrville than he ever did at Massillon and justin if all you wanted to do was go to Ohio st you should have stayed at Orrville because you had a way better football team there period!!! Since the playoffs started Massillon has won exactly zero state championships = way overrated!!! Because you are independent and play 8 home games every year, you make the playoffs but never due jack squat!tsst_fballfan;592294 wrote:My logic is that, in my opinion, a team need not go undefeated and win the state title to be an excellent football team. Anyone attempting to evince that the '05 Massillon Tigers weren't an excellent football team is being unobservant at the very least. If the theory is that disparaging the Tigers is synonymous with attacking a Massillon fan. One should also know it goes as far to ascertain the absence of football knowledge of the oppugner(if they truly believe that being cast). -
NNN
As long as we're talking about enrollment caps across divisions, back in 2006 Delphos St. John's (D-6) played Worthington Kilbourne (D-1). St. John's finished 6-4 and out of the playoffs, but one of those wins was against Kilbourne...
Random thoughts:
- Whatever happened to Bedford Chanel? In the last four years, they've gone 6-5, 3-7, 4-5, and 2-7.
- What happened to Hamilton Badin? About 10 years ago, they were either D-2 or D-3 and in the state semis; now they're D-5.
- What about Benedictine? Since winning the title in 2004, they've gone 4-6, 2-8, 4-6, 3-7, 3-7, and 2-8. -
sherm03
NNN;593344 wrote: Random thoughts:
- Whatever happened to Bedford Chanel? In the last four years, they've gone 6-5, 3-7, 4-5, and 2-7.
- What happened to Hamilton Badin? About 10 years ago, they were either D-2 or D-3 and in the state semis; now they're D-5.
- What about Benedictine? Since winning the title in 2004, they've gone 4-6, 2-8, 4-6, 3-7, 3-7, and 2-8.
That was my point NNN. Certain people have this ridiculous belief that ALL private schools are purposefully keeping their enrollment numbers down and only bringing in top tier athletes so they can dominate lower divisions. However, it is a few number of private schools that enjoy success. Just like a few number of public schools that enjoy success. But people chastise me...saying that it is a smoke and mirrors argument and that "the time is coming" and whatever other crap they want to throw without any facts to back it up.
Be careful with posts like this NNN...some on here aren't too high on the whole "facts" part of a debate. -
sirclovis
Its just a matter of time before someone says "smoke and mirrors" again and concludes that is enough evidence for their argument..sherm03;593398 wrote:That was my point NNN. Certain people have this ridiculous belief that ALL private schools are purposefully keeping their enrollment numbers down and only bringing in top tier athletes so they can dominate lower divisions. However, it is a few number of private schools that enjoy success. Just like a few number of public schools that enjoy success. But people chastise me...saying that it is a smoke and mirrors argument and that "the time is coming" and whatever other crap they want to throw without any facts to back it up.
Be careful with posts like this NNN...some on here aren't too high on the whole "facts" part of a debate. -
NNN
sherm03;593398 wrote:That was my point NNN. Certain people have this ridiculous belief that ALL private schools are purposefully keeping their enrollment numbers down and only bringing in top tier athletes so they can dominate lower divisions. However, it is a few number of private schools that enjoy success. Just like a few number of public schools that enjoy success. But people chastise me...saying that it is a smoke and mirrors argument and that "the time is coming" and whatever other crap they want to throw without any facts to back it up.
Be careful with posts like this NNN...some on here aren't too high on the whole "facts" part of a debate.
I'm looking at DeSales going 5-6 this year, combined with what appears to be declining enrollment (and higher tuition) and realizing that might be the next one to begin to decline. And, being in the middle of a cramped physical area, it's not like there'd be any room to expand to take a bunch more kids if they enroll anyway. -
rmolin73
sherm03 what about Fostoria St. Wendelin they had to cancel their last few games due to not being able to field a team. What a freaking powerhouse!!!! We need to move them up to D2 so that the little farm teams can win a title!
2009 0-10
2008 4-6
2007 2-8
2006 2-8 -
tsst_fballfan
I am not from Massillon. I am from Wayne county.Red Rider Nation;593294 wrote:I am tired of talking about massillon football - that is the most overrated program in Ohio. In 1999 they recruited a D4 QB that won a state title and thought he was the greates thing since sliced bread - newsflash tigers: he had a better team at orrville than he ever did at Massillon and justin if all you wanted to do was go to Ohio st you should have stayed at Orrville because you had a way better football team there period!!! Since the playoffs started Massillon has won exactly zero state championships = way overrated!!! Their fans are stupid asses too! Because you are independent and play 8 home games every year, you make the playoffs but never due jack squat! -
BigdoggNNN;593344 wrote:As long as we're talking about enrollment caps across divisions, back in 2006 Delphos St. John's (D-6) played Worthington Kilbourne (D-1). St. John's finished 6-4 and out of the playoffs, but one of those wins was against Kilbourne...
Random thoughts:
- Whatever happened to Bedford Chanel? In the last four years, they've gone 6-5, 3-7, 4-5, and 2-7.
- What happened to Hamilton Badin? About 10 years ago, they were either D-2 or D-3 and in the state semis; now they're D-5.
- What about Benedictine? Since winning the title in 2004, they've gone 4-6, 2-8, 4-6, 3-7, 3-7, and 2-8.
You forgot Marion Catholic, they had to drop football this year. Kilbourne was in their first year as a new school I believe, and was just starting a team heavy with underclassmen. Who knows what happened to the programs you mentioned. Maybe they made poor choices in hiring coaches, or lost community support, or maybe they made a decision to emphasize academics. There are a lot of factors necessary to build a successful sports program.
Let's be honest here. If your goal was to open a private high school and attract the best students, wouldn't be prudent of you to market your school by having the best academics, best facilities, best coaches, best sports programs, no behavior problems etc? All this and no transparency because you are private and are not required to be held o the same standards as the public schools. -
Alma_Parkerskank;593286 wrote:Hey buddy, don't make things tougher than they are, St X has 1171 boys....Massillon has 553....1171 minus 553 = 618....Massillon has 553 boys....Ironton has 182 boys....553 minus 182 = 371.
It's always tough with you, brother:
1. So X is slightly more than twice as big as Massillon, while Massillon is more than three times as big as Ironton. Got it. Pretty different, those two.
2. Nobody thinks Massillon needs to play down with Ironton or that Ironton should play up to Massillon, so this really has no relevance, even after you get the math right.
3. The only reason I compared the two was that you came after Ironton with all your "small ball" stuff and I thought it useful to point out that despite all its tradition and aspiration, Massillon rarely manages to outpoint Ironton.
4. You still, officially, have nothing good to say about any program but your own. Whether they be larger privates or smaller privates or smaller publics, if a program is successful, you don't respect it.
Pride is a good thing. If it blinds you to the occassional merits of others or makes you paranoid, it's not so good, though. -
queencitybuckeyeIronton would have RUTS Massillon this year.
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Delphosfan
when DSJ played at Kilbourne, Kilbourne was coming off a playoff appearance the year before. Both DSJ and Kilbourne had lost 14-15 starters from the year before.Bigdogg;593868 wrote:Kilbourne was in their first year as a new school I believe, and was just starting a team heavy with underclassmen. -
skank
Red Rider Nation;593294 wrote:I am tired of talking about massillon football - that is the most overrated program in Ohio. In 1999 they recruited a D4 QB that won a state title and thought he was the greates thing since sliced bread - newsflash tigers: he had a better team at orrville than he ever did at Massillon and justin if all you wanted to do was go to Ohio st you should have stayed at Orrville because you had a way better football team there period!!! Since the playoffs started Massillon has won exactly zero state championships = way overrated!!! Their fans are stupid asses too! Because you are independent and play 8 home games every year, you make the playoffs but never due jack squat!
If you believe the highlighted portion, let's just say you need to get out more. Seeing in the post above where you direct a comment....directly AT JZ, makes me think you are taking this pretty hard....STILL. Massillon hasn't played 8 home games in about 15 years. I don't know how old you are, my guess is anywhere from 15-21, but do you remember a man named Mo Tipton? Yeah, didn't think so, I remember when EVERY team in Wayne county HATED that man because he had the reputation as the best recruiter around. -
skank
queencitybuckeye;594255 wrote:Ironton would have RUTS Massillon this year.
Got the munchies yet? Cause you've obviously been hittin the pipe. -
skank
NNN;593344 wrote:As long as we're talking about enrollment caps across divisions, back in 2006 Delphos St. John's (D-6) played Worthington Kilbourne (D-1). St. John's finished 6-4 and out of the playoffs, but one of those wins was against Kilbourne...
Random thoughts:
- Whatever happened to Bedford Chanel? In the last four years, they've gone 6-5, 3-7, 4-5, and 2-7.
- What happened to Hamilton Badin? About 10 years ago, they were either D-2 or D-3 and in the state semis; now they're D-5.
- What about Benedictine? Since winning the title in 2004, they've gone 4-6, 2-8, 4-6, 3-7, 3-7, and 2-8.
So what you're saying, is that a Private school in the smallest division, defeated a public school....in the largest division? And therin lies the problem.