Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

• sherm03

  

  Be Nice;592045 wrote:^sherm...couldn't you do any better than that? lol lol lol lol

  
  I've provided solutions, stats, and facts.
  
  What have you brought to the discussion?
• Alma_Parker

  skank;591711 wrote:Mrs. Parker, maybe this is why.
  
  Massillons opponents that made the playoffs.
  
  This is a who's who of Ohio HS football. We have backed down from no one, we have played schools that recruit, (your Ursulines, Ignatius' St. Edward's, Moellers), We have played traditional powers, (Mckinley, Warren, Steubenville). Schools that only call when they have their, 'team of a lifetime', (Perry, Dover, Normandy), Your schools that recruit AND only call when they have their, 'team of a lifetime', (Chaminade, Benedictine), Schools that are VERY competative year in and year out, (Mentor, Solon, Buchtel.) Teams that have been Nationally ranked when we played them. Nice try though....Keep playin small ball.

  
  He's back!! First, I prefer "Miss Parker." Next, your post is confusing. Are you saying the reason you can't even outpoint a lil' ol' D-IV school like Ironton is that you schedule teams you can't beat? Actually, your win/loss is almost as good as Ironton's during the same period, so it must be something else besides just scheduling teams you can't beat. And on the "small ball" comment, I have no clue what that even means. Even a cursory glance at any year's schedule would indicate Ironton plays plenty of teams in higher divisions, often with much higher enrollments.
  
  I think we can accept by your lack of any retort that you accept that Ironton consistently over the last decade has outperformed Massillon, despite having 1/3 the enrollment. And this isn't relative, as in "for their class," as in the case it's the absolute numbers. Or even if you find this a bit strong, you've done nothing to explain how Ironton can do so well in their class when clearly the game is rigged against them due to the existence of almost 10% private playoff qualifiers in their division. You just don't address the question. Weird.
  
  You know what's even weirder, though? After you come back with nothing after you attack Ironton and I reply with a few facts that might make you ponder how smart that was, you go off on another rant that is emotional and not well-researched. If I understand the point of your post, after ignoring the fact that you completely changed the topic it is as follows: Even if Massillon doesn't win titles and doesn't rack up many computer points due to some combo of OK W/L record and not-so-strong schedule (at least compared to a D-IV aggressive scheduler like Ironton), at least you can claim some kind of small victory for playing some hard games. You "prove this" by demonstrating that over the past decade Massillon has played between 3 and 6 teams bound for the playoffs, depending on the year.
  
  Now I'm just dying to ask, before you launched this majestic salvo, did you notice that Ironton played 9 games this year against playoff qualifiers and two more against teams who finished 9th in the regions? I know you don't go for the whole comparative data, but why not move along. I assume you'd get a similar result if you looked at Kenton or Orrville or Steubenville or many others, including, yes, Ursuline and Xavier. But can you at least admit that among some of the most successful public programs their is an existence theorem for perenniallly successful programs?
  
  Here are your thought problems:
  
  1. Do programs like Ironton and the others I keep mentioning, who outperform Massillon in their class and by certain measures absolutely really exist or are they imaginary?
  
  2. Is it possible that not obsessing about who is screwing them next and who is "cheating" is actually helpful to their success because it lets them focus on things that matter?
• sirclovis

  Be Nice;592045 wrote:^sherm...couldn't you do any better than that? lol lol lol lol

  
  Your last two comments give valid evidence to never consider your opinion
• Alma_Parker

  tsst_fballfan;591781 wrote:Not really my place because their are many here that know more about them than I but ... if someone truly believes Massillon is not a very good football program and one of the best in the state then they know very little about Ohio HS football. :shrugs:

  
  For the record I don't feel that way at all. Massillon is a storied program and its supporters have a lot to be proud of. I have terrific memories from being in their stadium in the 70s and 80s and 90s watching state title games. Watching Spielman's last game in the horseshoe was a chance of a lifetime. They are truly impressive. But skank is stuck on why Massillon can't do even better for a misguided reason. And then he directly insulted a program I happed to be fond of and so I got a bit riled up. Ironton is also one of the storied football towns and Ironton HS is a very accomplished team. It's fun with numbers to show that they have a better record against a hard enough schedule to outpoint Massillon consistently. It's skank who doesn't respect Ironton or programs like it. Ironton has the winningest coach in Ohio history and they classically get minimal respect from schools up north (they know how to read the hometown papers down there) and skank has the same attitude. Meanwhile instead of feeling screwed by having to play big games four or five hours from home or getting intimidated, they just show up and do their best and some years surprise folks a little. skank doesn't need to attack Ironton as he did to try and make his point, but he chose to.
  
  Long live Massillon I hope they thrive. And that their fans support them even when they play a private school. And that their fans respect Kenton and Orrville and Coldwater and others even if they play what skank calls 'small ball.'
  
  www.irontonfootball.com
• Alma_Parker

  sherm03;592053 wrote:I've provided solutions, stats, and facts.
  
  What have you brought to the discussion?

  
  It's good that he's laughing at himself even if it's at the wrong things. He's not big on facts. Once he observes a fact-based poster he just taunts. Be Nice you're not under any skin here, but you do cause some wondering about whether you are serious about any of your earlier posts, or is all of it the big laugh (for you) that things have decayed to lately? There is a fairly serious issue here: a bunch of folks who want to mess up the playoff system. If it's all a joke to you and your objective is to annoy people and then laugh with yourself as you do it, that's cool, too.
• NNN

  

  Alma_Parker;592066 wrote:For the record I don't feel that way at all. Massillon is a storied program and its supporters have a lot to be proud of. I have terrific memories from being in their stadium in the 70s and 80s and 90s watching state title games. Watching Spielman's last game in the horseshoe was a chance of a lifetime. They are truly impressive. But skank is stuck on why Massillon can't do even better for a misguided reason. And then he directly insulted a program I happed to be fond of and so I got a bit riled up. Ironton is also one of the storied football towns and Ironton HS is a very accomplished team. It's fun with numbers to show that they have a better record against a hard enough schedule to outpoint Massillon consistently. It's skank who doesn't respect Ironton or programs like it. Ironton has the winningest coach in Ohio history and they classically get minimal respect from schools up north (they know how to read the hometown papers down there) and skank has the same attitude. Meanwhile instead of feeling screwed by having to play big games four or five hours from home or getting intimidated, they just show up and do their best and some years surprise folks a little. skank doesn't need to attack Ironton as he did to try and make his point, but he chose to.
  
  Long live Massillon I hope they thrive. And that their fans support them even when they play a private school. And that their fans respect Kenton and Orrville and Coldwater and others even if they play what skank calls 'small ball.'
  
  www.irontonfootball.com

  
  Hey, some of us up north respect the hell out of Ironton. We weren't very nice to deprive Bob Lutz of his 300th win a few years back, but it was part of a hard-fought and very well-played series. And after the hose job of 2000, it was only fitting.
• queencitybuckeye

  tsst_fballfan;591781 wrote:Not really my place because their are many here that know more about them than I but ... if someone truly believes Massillon is not a very good football program and one of the best in the state then they know very little about Ohio HS football. :shrugs:

  
  If you're talking about the present and not 40 years ago, they might, repeat might, be among the top 20 programs. Whether that qualifies as "good" is up to the individual. For me, "good" would describe it, below "excellent" and "elite".
• fish82

  

  Be Nice;592045 wrote:^sherm...couldn't you do any better than that? lol lol lol lol

  He doesn't have to. It's just as easy to sit back, do nothing, and watch you drive into the wall....repeatedly. You're mildly amusing though...so I encourage you to keep posting.
• tsst_fballfan

  

  queencitybuckeye;592160 wrote:If you're talking about the present and not 40 years ago, they might, repeat might, be among the top 20 programs. Whether that qualifies as "good" is up to the individual. For me, "good" would describe it, below "excellent" and "elite".

  How about 5 years ago when they lost the 'last game' to an undefeated St X by one score. Because they didn't win they're irrelevant? Being runner-up (by one score) in the D1 state title game to an undefeated school twice their size is playing "excellent" football in my book.
• sirclovis

  tsst_fballfan;592233 wrote:How about 5 years ago when they lost the 'last game' to an undefeated St X by one score. Because they didn't win they're irrelevant? Being runner-up (by one score) in the D1 state title game to an undefeated school twice their size is playing "excellent" football in my book.

  
  So if you continually lost to the best teams in the state by small margins that makes you an "excellent" football team? And this is not a knock against Massilon or anyone I am just trying to decipher your logic.
• queencitybuckeye

  tsst_fballfan;592233 wrote:How about 5 years ago when they lost the 'last game' to an undefeated St X by one score. Because they didn't win they're irrelevant? Being runner-up (by one score) in the D1 state title game to an undefeated school twice their size is playing "excellent" football in my book.

  
  I'm talking programs, not single years. As a current program, they are near the top, but not close enough to the top to be termed elite IMO. Again, as a current program, they're somewhere in the second ten.
• tsst_fballfan

  

  sirclovis;592241 wrote:So if you continually lost to the best teams in the state by small margins that makes you an "excellent" football team? And this is not a knock against Massilon or anyone I am just trying to decipher your logic.

  My logic is that, in my opinion, a team need not go undefeated and win the state title to be an excellent football team. Anyone attempting to evince that the '05 Massillon Tigers weren't an excellent football team is being unobservant at the very least. If the theory is that disparaging the Tigers is synonymous with attacking a Massillon fan. One should also know it goes as far to ascertain the absence of football knowledge of the oppugner(if they truly believe that being cast).
• tsst_fballfan

  

  queencitybuckeye;592264 wrote:I'm talking programs, not single years. As a current program, they are near the top, but not close enough to the top to be termed elite IMO. Again, as a current program, they're somewhere in the second ten.

  I could agree with that. But I would add being in the 'second ten' in Ohio HS football would be considered 'excellent' IMHO. It would probably be considered 'elite' in about 45 states.
• fish82

  

  tsst_fballfan;592294 wrote:My logic is that, in my opinion, a team need not go undefeated and win the state title to be an excellent football team. Anyone attempting to evince that the '05 Massillon Tigers weren't an excellent football team is being unobservant at the very least. If the theory is that disparaging the Tigers is synonymous with attacking a Massillon fan. One should also know it goes as far to ascertain the absence of football knowledge of the oppugner(if they truly believe that being cast).

  Massillon '05 was an excellent team.
  
  Massillon as a program over the past 40 years has been good, but less than elite.
• queencitybuckeye

  tsst_fballfan;592295 wrote:I could agree with that. But I would add being in the 'second ten' in Ohio HS football would be considered 'excellent' IMHO. It would probably be considered 'elite' in about 45 states.

  
  It's all about where one sets the bar. For me "elite" is 3-5 programs, "excellent" would be perhaps the next 8-10. Does Massillon fit into that group? Maybe.
• sirclovis

  fish82;592298 wrote:Massillon '05 was an excellent team.
  
  Massillon as a program over the past 40 years has been good, but less than elite.

  
  I was just about to say a similar response to tsst_fballfan. Out of a decade, one year LOSING in the state championship game does not make you an excellent overall team/program. That year, definitelly but overall no. Come on guys, if you want to maintain the label of an "excellent" football team you should have a state championship in the last twenty years (and this is even a stretch), on top of scheduling great teams and having great regular season records.
• tsst_fballfan

  

  In this decade they made the playoffs in 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005 (2nd), 2002, 2001, 2000. They went multiple rounds 5 of those years. Including state runner-up in 2005, four rounds deep in 2009, four rounds deep in 2002. If the point is that they haven't won a state championship I can agree. If the point is they are not one of the top 2 or 3 teams I can agree. But if the point is that they are somehow not an excellent football team then we will have to agree to disagree.
• Alma_Parker

  tsst_fballfan;592338 wrote:In this decade they made the playoffs in 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005 (2nd), 2002, 2001, 2000. They went multiple rounds 5 of those years. Including state runner-up in 2005, four rounds deep in 2009, four rounds deep in 2002. If the point is that they haven't won a state championship I can agree. If the point is they are not one of the top 2 or 3 teams I can agree. But if the point is that they are somehow not an excellent football team then we will have to agree to disagree.

  
  no doubt... it's a fine grades of semantics... but whether they are top 10 or top 20 or top 30, given that there are 700+ schools, there's no way they are anything but extremely successful! some of you (sherm?) probably has better data, but a couple of the links near the top here "playoff lists" and "state champs" are a decent source of some interesting data: www.irontonfootball.com
• Be Nice

  fish...it's a real pleasure to be under the skin of Miss Alma, sherm and now yourself. I am very flattered that you 3 constantly mention me in your posts. It's nice to be popular. However, guys, I'm married. I told you that. Please... find someone else to MANCRUSH on. lol lol lol lol
• fish82

  

  Be Nice;592419 wrote:fish...it's a real pleasure to be under the skin of Miss Alma, sherm and now yourself. I am very flattered that you 3 constantly mention me in your posts. It's nice to be popular. However, guys, I'm married. I told you that. Please... find someone else to MANCRUSH on. lol lol lol lol

  I rest my case.
• Be Nice

  I "rested" mine last week. You 3 have a great winter and be safe.
• Alma_Parker

  Be Nice;592520 wrote:I "rested" mine last week. You 3 have a great winter and be safe.

  
  you're under sherm's skin the way shadyside is under st. john's skin. probably driving him crazy. have a fact-free winter season; hope your teams don't get 'cheated' at basketball.
• skank

  

  Al Bundy;591864 wrote:So if you give the dad a job it OK bring kids in using that method? I'm sure no families in Ohio could have used the job since the economy is so great here.

  
  Ok....one....last....time....WE, as in 'us'....as in Massillon....Still with me? We, aren't the ones....who...."gave the dad a job. Understand? See, Massillon has NO connection to Diebold, none whatsoever. If they....Meaning Diebold, transfered Mr. Kempt to the Ohio plant, do you think there is a chance that maybe....just maybe, they have transfered other people from plants throughout the country to the Ohio plant? People who's kids do not play football?
• skank

  

  Alma_Parker;592033 wrote:Excellent!! It's important for everybody to have something to hang on to and feel good about. Sometimes kids act out just to get attention; I figured you couldn't actually mean most of the stuff you were saying or take yourself seriously. If you get some free time maybe you can help skank figure out how to explain why Massillon is screwed by the priivates but Ironton and Kenton aren't; he's gone quiet too so maybe you can team up. Meanwhile, good to know you are happy basking in the redoubt. Stay quiet and keep reading; this thread is making a lot more progress with the exchange of facts and balanced viewpoints; you may well learn a lot and maybe something can penetrate your absolutism and convince you that banishing the evil privates wouldn't work out.

  
  Sorry about "going quiet", but my JOB, sometimes gets in the way of my posting. Oh, sorry, a job is something people do to exchange labor for money, I'm sure you've heard about it at one time or another.
• queencitybuckeye

  Is that why it smells like french fries in here?