The LeBron v. Kobe Debate--Official

• cview

  Footwedge wrote: Today's shot that Bryant knocked down was a horrible shot...a shot he makes about 30% of the time. Kudos to Allen for deeing it up. Sometimes bad shit happens when you do good things in life.
  
  If I were Mike Brown, I would let him take that off balance, hand in your face, falling away from the hoop prayer thrown up by Bryant each and every time. Cav fans saw the brick Wade layed last week. Same deal here.
  
  Over the long haul, the Lakers will lose more often than not with that type of execution.

  
  LOL. A 16 foot jump shot from dead on is now a terrible shot? It was just really good defense.
  
  I would agree about the 30% thing but only because nobody in the NBA is going to make that at over a 30% clip under those circumstances...shot clock winding down, sort of fumbled away the ball, going left then switching to shoot it over your left shoulder all while a guy is playing as perfect of defense as you can. Boston got unlucky and Kobe made a good shot. End of story.
• cbus4life

  Trueblue23 wrote:

  Footwedge wrote: Today's shot that Bryant knocked down was a horrible shot...a shot he makes about 30% of the time. Kudos to Allen for deeing it up. Sometimes bad shit happens when you do good things in life.
  
  If I were Mike Brown, I would let him take that off balance, hand in your face, falling away from the hoop prayer thrown up by Bryant each and every time. Cav fans saw the brick Wade layed last week. Same deal here.
  
  Over the long haul, the Lakers will lose more often than not with that type of execution.

  True, but Kobe is the best player in NBA history at making nearly impossible shots.

  Rofl, sarcasm?
  
  I'll take Jordan.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  I for one don't think the shot was a terrible shot, IMO if you're the opposing coach that shot is about the worst possible shot you'd want to give Kobe in that situation. However, the part I don't tend to agree with about what happened was the "perfect defense" part. Allen played solid D, I mean it's not hard to stick with him when you know the clock is running down and you know when he's going to pull up, but it was far from perfect. He didn't leave the ground, he just stood there with his hands up--and I'm sorry, but you are NOT contesting a Kobe Bryant jump shot standing flat footed unless you're a 7 footer. Not taking anything away from the shot, it was a great shot but the defense was far from perfect. You see better defense than that in nearly every possession in the NBA. All he was doing was trying to stay close and not foul and hope he misses it.
• wildcats20

  

  cbus4life wrote:

  Trueblue23 wrote:

  Footwedge wrote: Today's shot that Bryant knocked down was a horrible shot...a shot he makes about 30% of the time. Kudos to Allen for deeing it up. Sometimes bad shit happens when you do good things in life.
  
  If I were Mike Brown, I would let him take that off balance, hand in your face, falling away from the hoop prayer thrown up by Bryant each and every time. Cav fans saw the brick Wade layed last week. Same deal here.
  
  Over the long haul, the Lakers will lose more often than not with that type of execution.

  True, but Kobe is the best player in NBA history at making nearly impossible shots.

  Rofl, sarcasm?
  
  I'll take Jordan.

  Here's the thing with MJ's game winners and Kobe's; and Phil said this in the interview with Magic on Sunday.
  
  Jordan's shots were much, much easier. He didn't take too many falling away 3's or anything like that. Almost all of Kobe's have been tough, hard fought shots.
  
  So in THIS case and THIS case only, I would take Kobe. BUT there is no one on this planet I would take over MJ to take a game winner.....if that makes sense.
• wildcats20

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote: I for one don't think the shot was a terrible shot, IMO if you're the opposing coach that shot is about the worst possible shot you'd want to give Kobe in that situation. However, the part I don't tend to agree with about what happened was the "perfect defense" part. Allen played solid D, I mean it's not hard to stick with him when you know the clock is running down and you know when he's going to pull up, but it was far from perfect. He didn't leave the ground, he just stood there with his hands up--and I'm sorry, but you are NOT contesting a Kobe Bryant jump shot standing flat footed unless you're a 7 footer. Not taking anything away from the shot, it was a great shot but the defense was far from perfect. You see better defense than that in nearly every possession in the NBA. All he was doing was trying to stay close and not foul and hope he misses it.

  Yeah, I originally said it was great D, but after seeing it over and over it was more of just solid D. Kobe said something about "his elevator going to floor 12 and Ray's only could get to 7" or something like that.
• Glory Days

  

  wildcats20 wrote: Here's the thing with MJ's game winners and Kobe's; and Phil said this in the interview with Magic on Sunday.
  
  Jordan's shots were much, much easier. He didn't take too many falling away 3's or anything like that. Almost all of Kobe's have been tough, hard fought shots.
  
  So in THIS case and THIS case only, I would take Kobe. BUT there is no one on this planet I would take over MJ to take a game winner.....if that makes sense.

  haha thats because Jordan's moves literally put people on the ground and left him with wide open shots as evident in the first and last shots in this clip.
  
  http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=3285905
• wildcats20

  

  Glory Days wrote:

  wildcats20 wrote: Here's the thing with MJ's game winners and Kobe's; and Phil said this in the interview with Magic on Sunday.
  
  Jordan's shots were much, much easier. He didn't take too many falling away 3's or anything like that. Almost all of Kobe's have been tough, hard fought shots.
  
  So in THIS case and THIS case only, I would take Kobe. BUT there is no one on this planet I would take over MJ to take a game winner.....if that makes sense.

  haha thats because Jordan's moves literally put people on the ground and left him with wide open shots as evident in the first and last shots in this clip.
  
  http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=3285905

  That's pretty much what Phil said too. MJ had a knack for being able to get enough separation to make the shot easier.
• karen lotz

  

  So do all the Kobe slobberer's get on him for trusting his teammate last night?
• Pick6

  

  Glory Days wrote:

  wildcats20 wrote: Here's the thing with MJ's game winners and Kobe's; and Phil said this in the interview with Magic on Sunday.
  
  Jordan's shots were much, much easier. He didn't take too many falling away 3's or anything like that. Almost all of Kobe's have been tough, hard fought shots.
  
  So in THIS case and THIS case only, I would take Kobe. BUT there is no one on this planet I would take over MJ to take a game winner.....if that makes sense.

  haha thats because Jordan's moves literally put people on the ground and left him with wide open shots as evident in the first and last shots in this clip.
  
  http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=3285905

  didnt lebron do that to kobe?
• Trueblue23

  

  Kobe made the right play last night. I would have went for two though.
• sportswizuhrd

  Did he make the right play because Artest was open or was it because he couldn't get around Marc Gasol?
• Sage

  

  Lol. He made the right play, Artest should've hit it.
  
  You're on the road on a back to back. In Memphis. In January.
  
  You go for the 3 every time.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  LOL, when LeBron passes to a wide open teammate he's scared to take the shot, when Kobe does it he's "making the right play".
  
  But I do agree with Sage, when you're on the road you shoot for the win. OT in an opponents arena doesn't bode well for the visitors most of the time. And when you have a guy like Kobe who can usually force the defense to leave someone open from 3 then you have to take it. Although I don't have a fucking clue why Kobe RARELY gets double teamed in most of those late game situations.
• Trueblue23

  

  Last night Jerry West said "I would put 5 guys on Kobe and leave someone wide open for a lay up"
  
  HAHA
• sportswizuhrd

  http://www.ocregister.com/articles/shots-232119-bryant-gasol.html
  
  Someone in Laker land isnt a happy camper.
  

  Gasol was asked about Bryant’s new record and offered politically correct – and believably authentic – commentary (“I’m proud of him; I congratulate him”) before adding the kicker: “Now we can focus on winning games again.”

  Gasol had just 10 points on 4-of-7 shooting Monday and surely hoped to shine brighter in the city where he not only is already a franchise all-time scoring leader but holds 11 other all-time Grizzlies records.
  
  “Obviously we’re not making a concerted effort at pounding the ball inside,” Gasol said after the loss.
  
  He said he’s not sure why this plagues the Lakers despite their consistent size advantage, but added pointedly: “It happens often.”

  Are the Lakers better when they go inside?
  
  “One hundred percent,” Gasol said.

  Phil not happy either...

  Bear in mind that Phil Jackson was a little miffed at Bryant on his historic night, too. Jackson told the team at halftime, when Bryant had 23 of the Lakers’ 50 points, that Bryant was “forcing the action.” Jackson also said in the halftime locker room, alluding to the 29 points Bryant needed in the game to pass Jerry West: “Let’s get him over the hump, so we can play team ball again.”

  Trueblue, I think Pau is starting to agree with you about getting Bynum the ball more (I am assuming, he is including himself too)
  
  Pretty good discussion from other Laker fans and some non Laker fans.
  
  http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=982702
• Footwedge

  Kobe is in fact a ball hog. His shooting percentage blows and they are winning inpite of him. Gasol is right. Kobe has never been a high assist guy. He should watch LeBron a few times and see how it's done.
• sportswizuhrd

  http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Behind-the-Box-Score-where-one-of-these-men-is-?urn=nba,217100
  
  TBDL also talks about the Laker/Grizz game and Kobe shooting too much...
  
  http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Behind-the-Box-Score-where-one-of-these-men-is-?urn=nba,217100
  

  
  This Kobe Bryant(notes) thing is almost at a boiling point. And because there are various shades of gray here that you have to have your big boy pants on to understand, you have to first consider the fact that I've been watching Phil Jackson work his particular brand of offense since 1989. And work it properly since 1990. Zing.
  
  Kobe Bryant is shooting too much. He's shooting too much for his team's ability, he's shooting too much considering his own physical shortcomings, and he's shooting too much for this team's offense to be successful.
  
  Kobe Bryant is a brilliant basketball mind and fantastic competitor who also nearly willed a dog-tired Los Angeles Lakers team (who plays in Massachusetts one day, and Tennessee the next?) to a road victory against a formidable Grizzlies squad that was really up for their particular game o' da year. He was a Marc Gasol(notes) double-team away from winning or tying it himself in the final seconds, as well.
  
  Kobe Bryant also scored 44 points on 28 shots, a potent night for anyone, much less someone working with nine fingers and all sorts of other ailments.
  
  But he's shooting too much. You can't point to that particular night's shooting percentage and call this a smart deal, not when the Lakers are only managing 101 points per 100 possessions against a rather putrid Memphis defense. Not when the Lakers are currently ninth in offensive efficiency, when they should be first (even with Derek Fisher(notes) around, even with Pau Gasol(notes) missing games) by a long shot.
  
  The ball has to move, others need to be made dangerous, and other options have to be explored. Scoring 44 points on 28 shots is great, but you can't have Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum(notes) combine to take just 10 shots in 56 minutes. Or, 18 fewer than Bryant in 16 more minutes. That's ridiculous.
  
  And Kobe knows better. In just about every given basketball instance, he knows better. All the greats have known better, and ignored those better instincts to do things his way. Bird did it. Jordan did it. Jerry West did it. But that doesn't make it right. And you can't make it a habit. It has to be an occasional dalliance with the very, very wrong.
  
  Not a consistent theme, and that's what Kobe's been on about for the last two months or so. We appreciate the grit, the all-world season at an advanced age and on the best team in basketball. We love all these knockout game-winners he's been throwing in. We know that even if Kobe keeps it up, it might not matter. The Lakers are too good.
  
  Things are starting to turn, though, and it's up to Kobe to stop it. If you're a daily reader, you know I've been warning about this for a while. He has to let up, he has to involve his teammates, and he has to run the offense. This team is too brilliant for things to be this Kobe-centric; because he's not waving off Chris Mihm(notes) anymore.
  
  The Memphis Grizzlies went out and earned this win. Los Angeles had tired legs, yeah, big deal. The Grizz took it. Memphis got to the offensive glass, it got to the line (it wasn't exactly super-successful at the line, 22-32, but it bettered Los Angeles' output), and the bench was borderline passable for once.
  
  Rudy Gay(notes) had 25 points and only four rebounds, mainly because Marc Gasol (13 and 11) and Zach Randolph(notes) (22 and 17) grabbed everything else. The Grizzlies are five games above .500 and should be proud of that, but they're also tied for eighth in the West. There cannot be any letup.

• krazie45

  

  LeBron has had 10+ assists in 5 of his last 6 games. I don't think we'll EVER see that from Kobe.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  Kobe has gone for 10+ assists 63 times.
  
  LeBron's done it 83 times and only played 522 games compared to Kobe's 997.
• wildcats20

  

  The issue I have with the assist stat is Kobe dumps the ball into Bynum, Gasol, and before them it was Shaq. So he will never get an assist for a bucket from those guys.
  
  But also, Bron is so much of a better passer than Kobe it's almost sickening. I could watch Bron pass the ball all day long. I think it's his greatest attribute.
• wes_mantooth

  

  I don't understand why people are comparing assists with Lebron and Kobe.......passing is not Kobe's game. He flat out shoots daggers in the other teams heart at the end of games. They are soooooo different in terms of their game that it is retarded that we keep comparing them.
• Glory Days

  

  wes_mantooth wrote: I don't understand why people are comparing assists with Lebron and Kobe.......passing is not Kobe's game. He flat out shoots daggers in the other teams heart at the end of games. They are soooooo different in terms of their game that it is retarded that we keep comparing them.

  that and whatever kobe does is working for the team, 4 rings....what lebron is doing for the team hasnt worked yet, no rings.
• Lovejoy1984

  

  Shaq > Z
  Horry> Gooden, Andy
  Fox<<<<<Lebron
  Bryant>>>> Ira Newble
  Fisher>> Eric Snow
  
  Bynum > Z
  Gasol> Andy
  Ariza<<<<<<Lebron
  Kobe>>>> Delonte
  Fisher< Mo
  
  Odom>>>> Ben Wallace, Wally, Sasha
  
  There is a reason Kobe's won 4 rings, and Lebron hasn't. And it most certainly has nothing to do with the passing ability of either player.
• hoops23

  

  Glory Days wrote:

  wes_mantooth wrote: I don't understand why people are comparing assists with Lebron and Kobe.......passing is not Kobe's game. He flat out shoots daggers in the other teams heart at the end of games. They are soooooo different in terms of their game that it is retarded that we keep comparing them.

  that and whatever kobe does is working for the team, 4 rings....what lebron is doing for the team hasnt worked yet, no rings.

  Comments like this are stupid.
  
  LeBron was better than Kobe at every age level. Through high school, as a rookie, at the ages of 24 and 25...
  
  Kobe was traded to LA and put in a perfect situation. LeBron was drafted #1 overall by a franchise who just got done winning 17 games.
  
  LeBron has helped single handedly turn this franchise into title contenders year in and year out.
• ytownfootball

  

  The bravado (and appearances) by Laker/Kobe nut huggers has dramatically fallen off since the words of his players/coaches have come out.