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2016 Olympic chatter

  • Automatik
    You're not smart.
  • Fab4Runner
    gut;1808072 wrote:Sure....Because many athletes grow up thinking "I'm going to be an Olympic race walker....or synchronized diver". When you can't make the cut as an individual, you go try synchronized. Rhythmic gymnastics is another.

    It would be like making putt-putt an Olympic event.

    Somewhere is a race walker who isn't good enough to make the team or medal, hoping for a "medley" of jogging, race walking and backwards running.
    Are you high? David Boudia won a gold medal as an individual and still does synchronized as well.
  • Spock
    that 50k race walk was pretty awesome. Lots of drama. Japanese guy gets DQ for elbow, Frenchman craps his pants and drops a big lead.

    Pretty awesome
  • Ironman92
    Spock;1808099 wrote:that 50k race walk was pretty awesome. Lots of drama. Japanese guy gets DQ for elbow, Frenchman craps his pants and drops a big load.

    Pretty awesome
    Fixed one letter and it makes much more sense
  • Spock
    Ironman92;1808113 wrote:Fixed one letter and it makes much more sense
    reps
  • wildcats20
    USA women just obliterated the competition.
  • Ironman92
    Damn that was impressive
  • Ironman92
    If that is the last time we ever see him run.....what a way to go out. Wow.
  • wildcats20
    Ridiculous.

    USA lucky to get bronze. Not too sure why Gatlin or Gay wasn't running anchor. Gay looked really fast.
  • wildcats20
    USA got DQ'd.
  • Gardens35
    wildcats20;1808137 wrote:USA got DQ'd.
    Another SMH moment..........and they get beat by Japan.
  • Ironman92
    wildcats20;1808137 wrote:USA got DQ'd.
    Gatlin not doing well
  • Gardens35
    Seacrest.........GTFO!
  • Spock
    Dennis mitchell should be fired as the US sprint coach
  • Ironman92
    Spock;1808159 wrote:Dennis mitchell should be fired as the US sprint coach
    Why because they haven't developed anyone under 30 years old? Lack focus, try to emulate Bolt.

    How the fuck you miss the handoff illegally...
  • salto
    Spock;1808159 wrote:Dennis mitchell should be fired as the US sprint coach
    Whoever is in charge of hiring coaches should be fired for hiring Mitchell, a known doper.

    "On May 1, 2008, it was announced that the U.S. government, in its trial against Trevor Graham, would have Mitchell, as well as Antonio Pettigrew as witnesses, with Mitchell to testify that Graham injected him with human growth hormone"
  • ironman02
    How many damn times can you fuck up passing the baton? I feel bad for those guys, especially Tyson Gay, but come on man. This is pretty ridiculous.
  • salto
    J'den Cox is a bad mofo.

    Awesome job Trevel Dlagnev!! Born in Bulgaria, now trains in Columbus Ohio, came back to win after being down 5-0 to last years World runner-up from AZE.

    Trevel onto semis....
  • salto
    http://www.flotrack.org/article/45342-numbers-don-t-lie-usain-bolt-is-better-than-michael-phelps
  • superman
    3 types of lies in the world. Lies, damned lies and statistics
  • Fly4Fun
    There's some funny assumptions going on in that article.

    "[FONT=&quot]Swimming and athletics are two very different sports. In swimming, the average elite athlete can typically compete in 1-5 individual events and 1-3 relay events at the championship level. "

    [/FONT]    Right here is a weird assumption. The "average elite athlete" is a weird phrase to begin with because there is no way to have an average of elite people to begin with. Elite are elite because they are outliers, and because they are outliers its hard to make generalizations about that group.

    But as far as his assumption that the average elite swimmer is more likely to do more events and do well at them than track athletes is kind of true, but not entirely to the extent the writer of this would want to make you believe. Phelps range of swimming events is nothing short of amazing.

    Let's take probably the second greatest swimmer ever, Mark Spitz, and look at his events from his 7 gold performance. (Point of interest, when Spitz won his 7 there were only prelims/finals and not the current prelims/semi-finals/finals which greatly increases the difficulty of swimming multiple events now because you have to swim more). Spitz swam the 100 Free, 200 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly, 4 x 100 Free Relay, 4 x 200 Free Relay and 4 x 100 Medley Relay (Fly leg). He only swam 2 different strokes and a total of 4 different kind of events (2 x 100 Free, 2 x 100 Fly, 2 x 200 Free, and 1 x 200 Fly). Now I will give you swimming offers more opportunities for medals because there are more possible relays.

    However, lets look at what Phelps has done (his program at the 2008 Olympics). He swam the 400 IM, 200 IM, 200 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly, 4 x 100 Medley Relay (Fly), 4 x 100 Free Relay and 4 x 200 Free Relay. So Phelps Swam a 2 x 200 Free, 2 x 100 Fly, 400 IM, 200 IM, and 100 Free (on the relay), and 200 Fly. So Phelps swam a total of 6 different type of events.

    And just to give rough time equivalents so people understand swimming a bit more

    50 Free = 100M/200M whichever your pick is, the 50 Free time wise is lke the 200 but it is the shortest event (like the 100).
    100's are roughly equivalent to the 400 based on time.
    200's are roughly equivalent to the 800 based on time.
    400's are roughly equivalent to the 1500/Mile based on time.

    So Phelps was essentially doing the range of the 400 to the 1500 while also doing more strokes (3 the IM, which is considered the 5th stroke, the Fly and Free). Where as most world class athletes stick to 1 stroke, while the elite of the elite do 2 strokes.

    Let's pull some of the other elite swimmers from all time medal count:
    Mark Spitz (2 strokes)
    Jenny Thompson (1 stroke, sprint freestylist)
    Ryan Locthe (3 strokes - Back, IM and Free) although he never individually won gold in either Backstroke or Freestyle which goes to show the difficulty of doing multiple strokes).
    Dara Torres ( 1 stroke, sprint freestyle)
    Natalie Coughlin (3 strokes but very similar to Lochte), Only ever won gold individually in back (not free or IM)
    Matt Biondi (2 strokes, Sprint Free, and Fly)
    Gary Hall Jr (1 stroke, sprint Free)
    Ian Thorpe (2 strokes Free and IM) He only ever won a gold in freestyle though
    Alexander Popov (1 stroke, sprint freestyle)
    Leslie Jones (1 stroke, breaststroke)
    etc.

    So there are only three elite swimmers who have tried to do three different strokes at a single olympics and only 1 of them was ever able to win gold individually in more than 1 of those type of strokes.

    In fact of the list of top Olympic count medalist swimmers Phelps is one of the few to win in more than 1 stroke others including only Spitz and Biondi (another recent addition to this list would be Katinka Hosszu, but she only has a total of 4 olympic medals, gold in 400IM, 200IM, and 100Back, silver in 10Back). Although on a side note I consider her rise to fame very suspicious as she got considerably faster late in her career after switching coaches to her husband. She dropped very big chunks of time off her events after turning 23. And the 400 IM record that she smashed this Olympics is one that looked pretty unrealistic and is tainted with doping claims of the Chinese swimmer from the 2012 Olympics. I wouldn't be surprised if it ever came out that she was using PEDs.

    So Phelps is an outlier amongst outliers. Beyond competiting and winning gold in different strokes he's also the only person to win a gold medal in the same event in three consecutive Olympics (200 IM and 200 Fly from 2004-2012). In fact he's even done it in four in a row for the 200 IM( 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016).

    So one of the big complaints about how swimming is easier to win multiple medals across multiple events (it really isn't). But I have a follow up question for track people, is there a limit on the number of events person can compete in at the Olympics. For example if a person wanted to do the 100, 200, 400, 110 Hurdles and Long Jump would they be able to?

    Another complaint is more relays for swimming. So lets take out relays

    Bolt - 6 Golds
    Phelps - 13 Golds, 2 Silvers, 1 Bronze, a 4th Place finish in the 400 IM in London, and a 5th place finish in the 200 Fly in Sydney - When he was FIFTEEN (15!!!!) years old. He went on the break the world record in the 200 Fly within a year.) So Phelps has a total of 16 individual medals, more than double the amount of golds. Twelve of his medals were from relays.

    Yes, Bolt has never lost at the Olympics, but he also hasn't been to as many Olympics (Phelps has gone to two more) and he doesn't do as many different kind of events so he can focus on his smaller schedule (whether that is a rule limiting or just a personal choice I don't know). One of the amazing things about Phelps is that he has worked on quite a few different skill sets to be able to do what he does. Just because you are world class in one event doesn't mean you will be in another. There are very unique skill sets to each stroke.

    Phelps has just made it look so easy that people underestimate how truly great he is. But that's also a sign of greatness. They make the impossible look easy. Bolt does this in the 100 and 200, the extent he has dominated his competition is astounding).

    I give Phelps the edge though for the sheer variety of events he was able to win in. When we see a track athlete winning 5 golds of some variation of the 100, 200, 400, Long Jump, Triple Jump, Hurdle events etc then they will be Phelpsian.
  • Ironman92
    Fly4Fun;1808196 wrote:There's some funny assumptions going on in that article.

    "[FONT=&quot]Swimming and athletics are two very different sports. In swimming, the average elite athlete can typically compete in 1-5 individual events and 1-3 relay events at the championship level. "

    [/FONT]    Right here is a weird assumption. The "average elite athlete" is a weird phrase to begin with because there is no way to have an average of elite people to begin with. Elite are elite because they are outliers, and because they are outliers its hard to make generalizations about that group.

    But as far as his assumption that the average elite swimmer is more likely to do more events and do well at them than track athletes is kind of true, but not entirely to the extent the writer of this would want to make you believe. Phelps range of swimming events is nothing short of amazing.

    Let's take probably the second greatest swimmer ever, Mark Spitz, and look at his events from his 7 gold performance. (Point of interest, when Spitz won his 7 there were only prelims/finals and not the current prelims/semi-finals/finals which greatly increases the difficulty of swimming multiple events now because you have to swim more). Spitz swam the 100 Free, 200 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly, 4 x 100 Free Relay, 4 x 200 Free Relay and 4 x 100 Medley Relay (Fly leg). He only swam 2 different strokes and a total of 4 different kind of events (2 x 100 Free, 2 x 100 Fly, 2 x 200 Free, and 1 x 200 Fly). Now I will give you swimming offers more opportunities for medals because there are more possible relays.

    However, lets look at what Phelps has done (his program at the 2008 Olympics). He swam the 400 IM, 200 IM, 200 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly, 4 x 100 Medley Relay (Fly), 4 x 100 Free Relay and 4 x 200 Free Relay. So Phelps Swam a 2 x 200 Free, 2 x 100 Fly, 400 IM, 200 IM, and 100 Free (on the relay), and 200 Fly. So Phelps swam a total of 6 different type of events.

    And just to give rough time equivalents so people understand swimming a bit more

    50 Free = 100M/200M whichever your pick is, the 50 Free time wise is lke the 200 but it is the shortest event (like the 100).
    100's are roughly equivalent to the 400 based on time.
    200's are roughly equivalent to the 800 based on time.
    400's are roughly equivalent to the 1500/Mile based on time.

    So Phelps was essentially doing the range of the 400 to the 1500 while also doing more strokes (3 the IM, which is considered the 5th stroke, the Fly and Free). Where as most world class athletes stick to 1 stroke, while the elite of the elite do 2 strokes.

    Let's pull some of the other elite swimmers from all time medal count:
    Mark Spitz (2 strokes)
    Jenny Thompson (1 stroke, sprint freestylist)
    Ryan Locthe (3 strokes - Back, IM and Free) although he never individually won gold in either Backstroke or Freestyle which goes to show the difficulty of doing multiple strokes).
    Dara Torres ( 1 stroke, sprint freestyle)
    Natalie Coughlin (3 strokes but very similar to Lochte), Only ever won gold individually in back (not free or IM)
    Matt Biondi (2 strokes, Sprint Free, and Fly)
    Gary Hall Jr (1 stroke, sprint Free)
    Ian Thorpe (2 strokes Free and IM) He only ever won a gold in freestyle though
    Alexander Popov (1 stroke, sprint freestyle)
    Leslie Jones (1 stroke, breaststroke)
    etc.

    So there are only three elite swimmers who have tried to do three different strokes at a single olympics and only 1 of them was ever able to win gold individually in more than 1 of those type of strokes.

    In fact of the list of top Olympic count medalist swimmers Phelps is one of the few to win in more than 1 stroke others including only Spitz and Biondi (another recent addition to this list would be Katinka Hosszu, but she only has a total of 4 olympic medals, gold in 400IM, 200IM, and 100Back, silver in 10Back). Although on a side note I consider her rise to fame very suspicious as she got considerably faster late in her career after switching coaches to her husband. She dropped very big chunks of time off her events after turning 23. And the 400 IM record that she smashed this Olympics is one that looked pretty unrealistic and is tainted with doping claims of the Chinese swimmer from the 2012 Olympics. I wouldn't be surprised if it ever came out that she was using PEDs.

    So Phelps is an outlier amongst outliers. Beyond competiting and winning gold in different strokes he's also the only person to win a gold medal in the same event in three consecutive Olympics (200 IM and 200 Fly from 2004-2012). In fact he's even done it in four in a row for the 200 IM( 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016).

    So one of the big complaints about how swimming is easier to win multiple medals across multiple events (it really isn't). But I have a follow up question for track people, is there a limit on the number of events person can compete in at the Olympics. For example if a person wanted to do the 100, 200, 400, 110 Hurdles and Long Jump would they be able to?

    Another complaint is more relays for swimming. So lets take out relays

    Bolt - 6 Golds
    Phelps - 13 Golds, 2 Silvers, 1 Bronze, a 4th Place finish in the 400 IM in London, and a 5th place finish in the 200 Fly in Sydney - When he was FIFTEEN (15!!!!) years old. He went on the break the world record in the 200 Fly within a year.) So Phelps has a total of 16 individual medals, more than double the amount of golds. Twelve of his medals were from relays.

    Yes, Bolt has never lost at the Olympics, but he also hasn't been to as many Olympics (Phelps has gone to two more) and he doesn't do as many different kind of events so he can focus on his smaller schedule (whether that is a rule limiting or just a personal choice I don't know). One of the amazing things about Phelps is that he has worked on quite a few different skill sets to be able to do what he does. Just because you are world class in one event doesn't mean you will be in another. There are very unique skill sets to each stroke.

    Phelps has just made it look so easy that people underestimate how truly great he is. But that's also a sign of greatness. They make the impossible look easy. Bolt does this in the 100 and 200, the extent he has dominated his competition is astounding).

    I give Phelps the edge though for the sheer variety of events he was able to win in. When we see a track athlete winning 5 golds of some variation of the 100, 200, 400, Long Jump, Triple Jump, Hurdle events etc then they will be Phelpsian.
    Is that all? Lol
  • gut
    Pretty solid argument for Phelps.

    But athletics has a bigger pool to draw from - any kid in the world can practice running just about anywhere. Access to a pool twice a day is a completely different story.

    Obviously Phelps has been dominant, but I don't know if he has been so far ahead of the field like Bolt, or Katie Ladecki for that matter.

    Carl Lewis also has 9 golds and own the long-jump 4 straight Olympics. Not the same dominance, or as long a reign, as Bolt in the sprints, but I'm not sure it's clear cut that Bolt is more accomplished than Lewis (although it still looks to me like Bolt could contend for 3 more gold in 2020 if he un-retires).
  • Ironman92
    Quite the margin of victory in the 800 women's...though it was a man.

    Men took gold and bronze in the women's 800
  • friendfromlowry
    Farrah has an amazing finish for a long distance runner.