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What does Lebron have to do?

  • Spock
    sleeper;1800800 wrote:Okay. So explain how that helps Jordan?

    Jordan is better than Lebron because of the team management office. Please. LOL
    no you are changing your argument.......stay focused since you started this. your argument was how many games the "team won". front office decisions and the amount of $ spent has alot to do with winning games.
  • sleeper
    Spock;1800804 wrote:no you are changing your argument.......stay focused since you started this. your argument was how many games the "team won". front office decisions and the amount of $ spent has alot to do with winning games.
    And what does that have to do with Jordan vs Lebron?

    Pretty incredible that when talking about the best of all time; the arguments for Jordan have been "Well the Bulls were managed better".

    Weak. LOL
  • Spock
    sleeper;1800806 wrote:And what does that have to do with Jordan vs Lebron?

    Pretty incredible that when talking about the best of all time; the arguments for Jordan have been "Well the Bulls were managed better".

    Weak. LOL
    you made an argument that wasnt about JOrdan and Lebron. YOur argument was about how many games were won. My point is that managment and $ has alot to do with winning games. SOmetimes just as much as the actual players
  • SportsAndLady
    Why are you guys responding to CC? The guy is a legitimate retard.
  • sleeper
    Spock;1800808 wrote:you made an argument that wasnt about JOrdan and Lebron. YOur argument was about how many games were won. My point is that managment and $ has alot to do with winning games. SOmetimes just as much as the actual players
    Lebron left. The Cavs wins plummeted by 40.

    Jordan left. The Bulls wins plummeted by 2.

    Not sure how it can be any more obvious. Jordan had better teams, Lebron is the better player. Put Jordan on this Cavs team and they lose in the 1st round(Lebron has never lost in the first round, Jordan has 3 times).
  • Automatik
    SportsAndLady;1800810 wrote:Why are you guys responding to CC? The guy is a legitimate retard.
    Ahh forgot that was him. Seeing him get slapped around never gets old.
  • Spock
    sleeper;1800814 wrote:Lebron left. The Cavs wins plummeted by 40.

    Jordan left. The Bulls wins plummeted by 2.

    Not sure how it can be any more obvious. Jordan had better teams, Lebron is the better player. Put Jordan on this Cavs team and they lose in the 1st round(Lebron has never lost in the first round, Jordan has 3 times).
    Jesus.....Do you realize the players that Jordan had around him when he was winning those titles? His first 3 titles were with a bunch of nobody's. Sure the Bulls had good teams. Jordan was so good that just playing with him made those guys a 50 game winning team without him.

    LJ is not Jordan when it comes to being the man.
  • sleeper
    Spock;1800821 wrote:Jesus.....Do you realize the players that Jordan had around him when he was winning those titles? His first 3 titles were with a bunch of nobody's. Sure the Bulls had good teams. Jordan was so good that just playing with him made those guys a 50 game winning team without him.

    LJ is not Jordan when it comes to being the man.
    Delusional.
  • slingshot4ever
    sleeper;1800797 wrote:Then counter it. Jordan was handed a 50+ win team while Lebron's teams completely die without him. This is fact and reality.
    The Heat were not dead the last two years...
  • Commander of Awesome
    like_that;1800760 wrote:FWIW both players at the age of 31 has 3 titles. Lebron had more MVPs though.
    FWIW, LBJ would fucking destroy Jordan.
  • Ironman92
    vball10set;1800767 wrote:IMO, LBJ is now in Jordan's atmosphere...however, it'll take a few more titles though to elevate him to GOAT
    My thoughts too
  • FatHobbit
    wildcats20;1800780 wrote:Jordan didn't have to collude with 2 other top 10 players to get a ring either.
    I've never had an issue with LeBron leaving to win a title, but like many others I hate the way he did. I'm still not 100% on the LeBron band wagon.

    But the argument about how Chicago's front office was much better than Cleveland's has me wondering if LeBron never left Cleveland, would they have won a title last night? Or did he HAVE to do that to take control so that he could get the pieces he needed in Cleveland?
  • FatHobbit
    Automatik;1800781 wrote: Do people not realize how fucking good Scottie Pippen was?
    I think most people forget and tend to think the players they are currently watching are much better.

    I mean I know Wilt was a phenomenal athlete but I never saw him play. In my mind LeBron is much better, but there's really no way to know
  • friendfromlowry
    FatHobbit;1800841 wrote:I think most people forget and tend to think the players they are currently watching are much better.

    I mean I know Wilt was a phenomenal athlete but I never saw him play. In my mind LeBron is much better, but there's really no way to know
    I also think people will never escape the mindset that the past was better. Lebron could go onto win 8 more titles, and knowing Spock personally, he'll still stick to his opinion that basketball/players of the 80s and 90s were better.
  • Spock
    FatHobbit;1800837 wrote:I've never had an issue with LeBron leaving to win a title, but like many others I hate the way he did. I'm still not 100% on the LeBron band wagon.

    But the argument about how Chicago's front office was much better than Cleveland's has me wondering if LeBron never left Cleveland, would they have won a title last night? Or did he HAVE to do that to take control so that he could get the pieces he needed in Cleveland?
    That's my point that sleeper is too stupid to understand. The front office has alot to do with winning 50 games without their stars. Saying LJ is better then Jordan because Cleveland only won 19 games without him is a stupid argument.
  • Spock
    friendfromlowry;1800842 wrote:I also think people will never escape the mindset that the past was better. Lebron could go onto win 8 more titles, and knowing Spock personally, he'll still stick to his opinion that basketball/players of the 80s and 90s were better.
    No. Athletes today are way bigger, faster and stronger then before. In basketball though, the 80's teams would kill these teams today because of how they played. Better team game, better big men.
  • like_that
    CC runner just providing dumb shit in this thread.
  • Al Bundy
    sleeper;1800738 wrote:To be considered unanimously best player of all time?

    Does he need 6 championships? More MVPs? More FMVPs?
    This finals was the first time I felt LeBron truly had a killer instinct. He took over the games at times and said there was no way he would let his team lose. The killer instinct was something put MJ at a high level. If LeBron can keep that hunger, stay healthy, and win a few more titles. He will be considered the best ever. He will also be moving to the top of the list in many all-time stats in the next 5 years or so.
  • thavoice
    Al Bundy;1800884 wrote:This finals was the first time I felt LeBron truly had a killer instinct. He took over the games at times and said there was no way he would let his team lose. The killer instinct was something put MJ at a high level. If LeBron can keep that hunger, stay healthy, and win a few more titles. He will be considered the best ever. He will also be moving to the top of the list in many all-time stats in the next 5 years or so.
    Probably the most accurate point I have read about LBJ in the comparisons. MJ just seemed like he would take over more often and will his teams to victory and it wasn't until now have ya seen that consistently out of James.
  • sleeper
    slingshot4ever;1800825 wrote:The Heat were not dead the last two years...
    Really?

    Missed the playoffs the year after Lebron left. 57 wins to 37 wins.
    This year: improved to 48 wins for the 3 seed. Lost in R2. Hassan and Dragic mostly.

    That sounds about as dramatic of a change as the Cavs experience. 33 wins and missed playoffs before Lebron; 53 wins and 2 seed to NBA Finals in Lebron's first year. 57 wins, 1 seed, NBA Champion in 2nd year.

    Tell me more though!
  • sleeper
    Commander of Awesome;1800828 wrote:FWIW, LBJ would fucking destroy Jordan.
    This would end the thread in a rational world. Old timers nostalgic for the good ole days being the exception in that world.
  • sleeper
    Al Bundy;1800884 wrote:This finals was the first time I felt LeBron truly had a killer instinct. He took over the games at times and said there was no way he would let his team lose. The killer instinct was something put MJ at a high level. If LeBron can keep that hunger, stay healthy, and win a few more titles. He will be considered the best ever. He will also be moving to the top of the list in many all-time stats in the next 5 years or so.
    Where was MJ's killer instinct in R1 of the playoffs where he lost 3 times?

    Lebron has never lost in R1 of the playoffs. Lebron will shatter all of MJs records before his time is done. That is the reality.
  • sleeper
    thavoice;1800885 wrote:Probably the most accurate point I have read about LBJ in the comparisons. MJ just seemed like he would take over more often and will his teams to victory and it wasn't until now have ya seen that consistently out of James.
    Expectations for Lebron are also a lot higher. Lebron can average 30-10-10 and people still criticize Lebron for not taking over games.

    Also people straight up build phantom ghosts in their mind of what MJ was. I've watched both, Lebron is better and there's no doubt.
  • Automatik
    thavoice;1800885 wrote:Probably the most accurate point I have read about LBJ in the comparisons. MJ just seemed like he would take over more often and will his teams to victory and it wasn't until now have ya seen that consistently out of James.
    Did you see the montage ESPN recently put up regarding LeBron's monster statlines in the playofs? I suggest you check it out.
  • sleeper
    The reality is MJ's Bulls were a superior team with a superior roster. Lebron spent the first 7 years in Cleveland with dog shit teams and still found ways to will his team to playoff wins.

    I'd love to see MJ carry that Cavs team in '07 to the NBA Finals. That team was an absolute joke. I'd love to see Jordan will his team back down 3-1 in the NBA Finals; capping off Game 7 against a historically great team in their building, against the MVP, with a triple double and a huge block to seal the deal. The reality is, if you are an honest fan, Jordan loses that game.