2014 Cleveland Browns Offseason Thread

• shook_17

  

  sleeper;1583991 wrote:It's not about contract value. If we draft Manziel, do you really think we are going to draft another QB in the next 5 years of his rookie contract? No. It's the same problem the Rams have and the same problem Oakland had for a few years with Russell. Manziel is rated lower than Bradford in draft value yet every Brown's fans think he's going to be the next Peyton Manning. Please, history, logic, and reason show that Manziel is MUCH MORE LIKELY to be the next Tannehill than anything else.

  How? Tannehill was a qb for 1 year and Manziel has been a QB his whole life? and statically dominated the SEC.
• sleeper

  

  shook_17;1583990 wrote:Manning wasn't drafted in the first round?
  
  How is Arron Curry working out for the Seahawks? or Rolando McClain for the Raiders?
  
  OH WAIT.

  Manning wasn't drafted #1 by the Broncos. He was acquired in a trade.
  
  Irvin, drafted in the first round by the Seahawks has the same amount of Superbowl wins as any QB drafted in the top 10 over the last 12 years. Defensive players typically pan out much better than QBs; facts are in the draft.
• Al Bundy

  sleeper;1583970 wrote:Good to hear your goal for Cleveland is a second place finish at best going forward. Again, please tell me how Manziel will be Peyton Manning and get us to the promise land. He won't, you know it, we know it, hell even the dog knows it.
  
  There's a much better chance a 3rd round + QB will make us a Super Bowl caliber team than drafting a QB in the 1st round(see list a few posts back regarding how well first round highly touted QBs fair in the NFL). Do I need to post the list again? Remember, the Tannehills and Ryans of the world were just as highly touted as Manziel and Bridgewater and they've won approximately nothing and they never will.

  I never said Manziel will be better than Manning. I don't even like Manziel. I just don't agree with your assessment of Von Miller being a difference maker in the Broncos' season.
• sleeper

  

  shook_17;1583993 wrote:How? Tannehill was a qb for 1 year and Manziel has been a QB his whole life? and statically dominated the SEC.

  Manziel is a system QB. He will fair about as well as Colt Brennan did in the NFL yet Brown's fans want to trade the next 6 drafts to grab him at #1 overall. I hope we draft Manziel and lose every game until he is cut so moronic fans can finally understand that drafting a QB in the first round rarely if ever works out.
• sleeper

  

  Al Bundy;1583995 wrote:I never said Manziel will be better than Manning. I don't even like Manziel. I just don't agree with your assessment of Von Miller being a difference maker in the Broncos' season.

  The Broncos defense last year was one of the best in the business. Without Vonn Miller they were average at best and gave up 40 points to Seattle in the Super bowl. With Vonn Miller, maybe the game wouldn't have been a complete blowout.
• sleeper

  

  thavoice;1583988 wrote:YOu make some valid points sleeper.
  
  But when you are drafting 5th, you need to address your most pressing issue on the team if there is a good one available (and the "experts think there are 3 good QB's), is at QB. They have talent shown by the PB selections, but without a QB the team is dead in the water.
  
  Durkey made his first ever quality statement about Bradford...taht was the last season I believe of the old rookie cap where drafting a QB in the top could fuck your franchise monetarily for years.

  You take BPA, every time. This year, the BPA is not going to be a QB so why waste the pick? Not sure I follow the logic "we need QB so draft QB"; just because Manziel or Bridgewater have a QB next to their name doesn't mean they are going to win a single game in the NFL. Why waste such a high valued pick on a handicapping asset like a QB at #4? Pick the BPA every time.
• thavoice

  sleeper;1583991 wrote:It's not about contract value. If we draft Manziel, do you really think we are going to draft another QB in the next 5 years of his rookie contract? No. It's the same problem the Rams have and the same problem Oakland had for a few years with Russell. Manziel is rated lower than Bradford in draft value yet every Brown's fans think he's going to be the next Peyton Manning. Please, history, logic, and reason show that Manziel is MUCH MORE LIKELY to be the next Tannehill than anything else.

  Sure it is.
  Bradford signed a contract with more GUARENTEED $$ than Lucks WHOLE contract. (50 mill guarenteed to about 23 million total for luck).
  If they draft Manzeil, BOrtels or TB and they flop they are in a much better spot than St lous, Oakland with their flops.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  sleeper;1583989 wrote:It's not just the Browns though; its every organization. I find it hilarious that my argument which is based mostly on facts is "stupid" while your opinion based solely on your opinion somehow makes sense. LOL
  
  I'm still waiting for my question to be answered, how many QBs drafted in the top 10 in the last decade have won a super bowl? Once you answer that question, please tell me how Manziel is better than all of those QBs. LOL. This isn't even an argument; this is reality that you are refusing to accept.

  You are also forgetting we have a solid defense in place and offensive weapons. Not only that but with a guard our line is one of the best in the nfl. A qb WITHOUT a doubt ensures better value at 4 than a Fucking mac linebacker. We need a leader at the qb position. It's as simple as that. We are only a qb away from the playoffs.
  
  Your argument isn't based on facts. Your argument is based on your opinion that drafting a qb top ten isn't smart based on previous years. I'd argue that a lot of those teams weren't in the situation we are in. We have a team ready for success we just need that final piece solved. A linebacker isn't one of them.
• thavoice

  sleeper;1584002 wrote:You take BPA, every time. This year, the BPA is not going to be a QB so why waste the pick? Not sure I follow the logic "we need QB so draft QB"; just because Manziel or Bridgewater have a QB next to their name doesn't mean they are going to win a single game in the NFL. Why waste such a high valued pick on a handicapping asset like a QB at #4? Pick the BPA every time.

  You are correct in the terms of not taking a QB just to take one, but the so called experts who do this for a living have 3 QB's rated pretty high and worth the shot for teams needed a QB. It isnt like people are saying they reach and draft Keith Wenning real high just because they need a QB.
• Al Bundy

  sleeper;1583997 wrote:The Broncos defense last year was one of the best in the business. Without Vonn Miller they were average at best and gave up 40 points to Seattle in the Super bowl. With Vonn Miller, maybe the game wouldn't have been a complete blowout.

  In 9 games with Von Miller last year, they gave up 26.4 points per game. In 10 games without him, they gave up 23.7 points per game.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  Al Bundy;1584013 wrote:In 9 games with Von Miller last year, they gave up 26.4 points per game. In 10 games without him, they gave up 23.7 points per game.

  Lol sleeper uses facts and logic
• Al Bundy

  Super Bowl winning qb's and round drafted
  
  1st round 28
  2nd round 4
  3rd round 6
  4th round 1
  6th round 3
  9th round 1
  10th round 2
  17th round 2
  undrafted 1
• thavoice

  Al Bundy;1584015 wrote:Super Bowl winning qb's and round drafted
  
  1st round 28
  2nd round 4
  3rd round 6
  4th round 1
  6th round 3
  9th round 1
  10th round 2
  17th round 2
  undrafted 1

  FOr the heck of it...whom were the 10th, 17th and undrafted?
• sleeper

  

  Al Bundy;1584015 wrote:Super Bowl winning qb's and round drafted
  
  1st round 28
  2nd round 4
  3rd round 6
  4th round 1
  6th round 3
  9th round 1
  10th round 2
  17th round 2
  undrafted 1

  Now please do the same data pull for QBs drafted in the top 10 over the past 12 years. The answer is 1. ONE QB. LOL
• sleeper

  

  Al Bundy;1584013 wrote:In 9 games with Von Miller last year, they gave up 26.4 points per game. In 10 games without him, they gave up 23.7 points per game.

  Too small of a sample size. This is like saying Derek Anderson is the best QB in the game because he went to the Pro Bowl one year and then busted out. Vonn Miller is by far the best LB in the game and his presence alone accounts for wins.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  sleeper;1584019 wrote:Now please do the same data pull for QBs drafted in the top 10 over the past 12 years. The answer is 1. ONE QB. LOL

  Bring up a poll about teams that won a super bowl after drafting a lb top 10
• sleeper

  

  DeyDurkie5;1584011 wrote:You are also forgetting we have a solid defense in place and offensive weapons. Not only that but with a guard our line is one of the best in the nfl. A qb WITHOUT a doubt ensures better value at 4 than a Fucking mac linebacker. We need a leader at the qb position. It's as simple as that. We are only a qb away from the playoffs.
  
  Your argument isn't based on facts. Your argument is based on your opinion that drafting a qb top ten isn't smart based on previous years. I'd argue that a lot of those teams weren't in the situation we are in. We have a team ready for success we just need that final piece solved. A linebacker isn't one of them.

  Right, the Redskins weren't just a QB away. How'd that work out for them? Same with Indy, one QB away and they can't even make the AFC finals. How'd Tannehill and one QB away Dolphins pan out? Matt Ryan has been a QB for what, 7 years now and the Falcons were just one QB, super bowl contenders though.
  
  Now look at my model; the Chiefs draft BPA available and trade for Alex Smith = PLAYOFFS and one of the best records in the league. Seattle Seahawks, focus on drafting the BPA and won the super bowl over the best QB in the game. LOL
• sleeper

  

  DeyDurkie5;1584021 wrote:Bring up a poll about teams that won a super bowl after drafting a lb top 10

  Seahawks just won a super bowl. Nice try. LOL
• Al Bundy

  sleeper;1584020 wrote:Too small of a sample size. This is like saying Derek Anderson is the best QB in the game because he went to the Pro Bowl one year and then busted out. Vonn Miller is by far the best LB in the game and his presence alone accounts for wins.

  You choose last year as the sample size when you said they had one of the best defenses in the league when Miller was there. The stats show that was false statement, and they played better without him.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  sleeper;1584023 wrote:Seahawks just won a super bowl. Nice try. LOL

  Ah okay. 1 super bowl winning qb one super bowl winning linebacker
• DeyDurkie5

  

  sleeper;1584022 wrote:Right, the Redskins weren't just a QB away. How'd that work out for them? Same with Indy, one QB away and they can't even make the AFC finals. How'd Tannehill and one QB away Dolphins pan out? Matt Ryan has been a QB for what, 7 years now and the Falcons were just one QB, super bowl contenders though.
  
  Now look at my model; the Chiefs draft BPA available and trade for Alex Smith = PLAYOFFS and one of the best records in the league. Seattle Seahawks, focus on drafting the BPA and won the super bowl over the best QB in the game. LOL

  U are a moron if you think the redskins were a qb away. Or the Colts lol
• Al Bundy

  thavoice;1584017 wrote:FOr the heck of it...whom were the 10th, 17th and undrafted?

  The 10th rounder was Staubach twice (would have been a first rounder without military obligation).
  The 17th rounder was Starr twice.
  The undrafted qb was Warner.
• thavoice

  Al Bundy;1584029 wrote:The 10th rounder was Staubach twice (would have been a first rounder without military obligation).
  The 17th rounder was Starr twice.
  The undrafted qb was Warner.

  Ahh..shoulda known Warner and Staubach.
  
  Sleeper.....if you are going to wait around for a very solid,winning QB to come around in FA or a trade like Alex Smith then you will be waiting for a long, long time.
  If there is at op 10 rated QB on the board when the browns pick..they need to get him.
• Al Bundy

  sleeper;1584019 wrote:Now please do the same data pull for QBs drafted in the top 10 over the past 12 years. The answer is 1. ONE QB. LOL

  In the past 10 Super Bowls, the winning qb was a first round pick in 7 of the 10. Three of them were top 10 picks.
• like_that

  

  Al Bundy;1584031 wrote:In the past 10 Super Bowls, the winning qb was a first round pick in 7 of the 10. Three of them were top 10 picks.

  Rapistberger was just outside of top 10 (#11) otherwise you can make that 5 QBs on the top 10.