Week 16 - AFC Championship Preview: Oakland Raiders @ Cleveland Browns

• Sage

  

  Abe Elam. Enough said.
• Sage

  

  Joke of a call.
• wes_mantooth

  

  Sage wrote: DaBrowns,
  
  I assume you were apart of the pitchfork mob that ran Belichick out of town? How did that turn out for Cleveland?
  
  Firing coaches after one year is fucking ludicrous. DID YOU SEE US LAST YEAR? Mangini clearly didn't come into a desirable situation.
  
  We still don't have a lot of talent, but we're playing with heart. We've clearly improved as the season has gone along.
  
  We also have 11 draft picks next year (thanks to Mangini) and for once--we're actually dedicated to a long term plan.
  
  There is a reason why the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, etc. etc. are good every year--and it's because they fire their coach.

  I agree with this entire post, but I fear that Holmgren is going to want one of his guys in here.
• iclfan2

  

  Pass interference call sucked too.
• wes_mantooth

  

  Hell of a catch by Wright, but I really wonder if his were in.
  
  Crap...this isn't going to stand.
• Sage

  

  iclfan2 wrote: Pass interference call sucked too.

  Yea, nothing better than Chaz Frye getting bailed out for hoisting an uncatchable ball into the endzone off his back foot.
• DaBrowns41

  Sage wrote: DaBrowns,
  
  I assume you were apart of the pitchfork mob that ran Belichick out of town? How did that turn out for Cleveland?
  
  Firing coaches after one year is fucking ludicrous. DID YOU SEE US LAST YEAR? Mangini clearly didn't come into a desirable situation.
  
  We still don't have a lot of talent, but we're playing with heart. We've clearly improved as the season has gone along.
  
  We also have 11 draft picks next year (thanks to Mangini) and for once--we're actually dedicated to a long term plan.
  
  There is a reason why the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, etc. etc. are good every year--and it's because they fire their coach.

  That's fine. We can wait and fire him after next year when we're still a 3-13 team.
  
  We had more talent on this team last year, by far, and we got rid of it all for players that "work hard". Half of those players are "working hard" on the sidelines because they can't stay healthy.
  
  Point is, he doesn't know what he's doing as a coach. He had a terrible draft. The only thing exciting he got out of trading out of the 5 spot was Kenyon Coleman.
  
  His job is to win games, and add talent to this team. He's doing neither.
  
  He doesn't know shit about the WCO, and if Holmgren decides that he would prefer a 43 defense to be ran, Mangini is gone.
  
  Notice that while Holmgren said "Firing coaches after one year is unfair", he followed it with "but sometimes coaching isn't fair" or something like that.
• iclfan2

  

  Sage: I agree with you if the current regime was staying the same. However, with Holmgren coming in and taking full control, he needs to come in and hire HIS men to run the team. He has to have someone he can trust to buy into his system. Now if he believes Mangini is a guy that will buy in I wouldn't hate giving him another year. Although I don't think he is doing that good of a job, like having Veikune, Robiskie, and Francies not play. We suck, play the rookies.
• DaBrowns41

  Veikune isn't playing because they are putting a rush DE to play ILB in a 34. You can't just throw players at random spots and expect them to play well. Veikune isn't an ILB in a 34. He's not even a MLB in a 43. He's a rush linebacker or DE.
  
  Francies not playing is also baffling. The guy played well in his opportunities (maybe not great, but well for a 6th round rookie), and instead Hank freakin Poteat keeps playing? Seriously?
• iclfan2

  

  Mike Adams has impressed me this year.
• BRF

  

  It's great to hear the Brown's fans over the radio having a good time!
• iclfan2

  

  DaBrowns41 wrote: Veikune isn't playing because they are putting a rush DE to play ILB in a 34. You can't just throw players at random spots and expect them to play well. Veikune isn't an ILB in a 34. He's not even a MLB in a 43. He's a rush linebacker or DE.
  
  Francies not playing is also baffling. The guy played well in his opportunities (maybe not great, but well for a 6th round rookie), and instead Hank freakin Poteat keeps playing? Seriously?

  If he doesn't fit in the system why the hell did they draft him?
• Sage

  

  We won't be a 3-13 team next year--and you can take that to the bank.
  
  We had more talent last year--really? An "elite" receiver who was uninterested and couldn't catch? An "elite" TE that was a malcontent and couldn't stay healthy? Or was it Shaun Smith--who punched our quarterback in the face (kudos).
  
  How have those guys gone on to help their team? Any of them headed to the Pro Bowl this year? Or would you be more content with draft picks?
  
  -------------
  
  Trading down was more about than acquiring players--it also saved us from inking a cap-killing Top 5 draft pick for an underdeveloped QB. (Although, I've noticed the WE COULDA HAD SANCHIZE crowd has died down in recent months). We saved millions and acquired Alex Mack--a guy who will be a staple on our line for the next decade---along with some serviceable players that have helped our defense take the statistical leap that it has.
  
  --------------
  
  I get it. Everybody hates Mangini because they read that he was a dick. He made some rookies ride a bus to New Hampshire. (He's since apologized). He might not look like an NFL coach. Whatever.
  
  The results are on the field. Our team is in the cellar in terms of elite talent and Mangini has kept the team together and striving for a common goal. He has drafted quality, intelligent players that will be good for a long time to come. Add in the finds of Matt Roth & Evan Moore---and it's easy to see that the Browns are on the rise.
  
  ------------------
  
  But yes, lets fire a coach who doesn't have a quarterback, a right side of an offensive line, no Pro Bowl defender besides Rodgers, an elite receiver, etc. etc. etc.
  
  Lets just revamp everything and bring in a new system. Again. That sounds like a lot of fun.
• DaBrowns41

  I wouldn't have a problem letting Mangini have a 2nd year, I just don't want everybody to be like "damn, I guess we should have just gotten rid of him sooner".
  
  Mangini should have been fired, along with Kokonis. Same with Daboll.
• DaBrowns41

  iclfan2 wrote:

  DaBrowns41 wrote: Veikune isn't playing because they are putting a rush DE to play ILB in a 34. You can't just throw players at random spots and expect them to play well. Veikune isn't an ILB in a 34. He's not even a MLB in a 43. He's a rush linebacker or DE.
  
  Francies not playing is also baffling. The guy played well in his opportunities (maybe not great, but well for a 6th round rookie), and instead Hank freakin Poteat keeps playing? Seriously?

  If he doesn't fit in the system why the hell did they draft him?

  I think they drafted him to play OLB, and then felt like his size was perfect for an ILB role. Not to mention we are very thin at ILB, and he was the ideal size to fill in.
• iclfan2

  

  Whether Mangini stays or not, Daboll sucks ass and better not be here next year.
• hoops23

  

  MoMass is going to be a beast. I don't know why people have had unreal expectations about this ROOKIE! He's made some great plays and has shown some veteran moves for a rook. He's also the only receiving threat we really have, which makes what he's done as a ROOKIE even more impressive.
• Sage

  

  Yea, Mass will be fine. I'm not sold on him as an elite #1 receiver yet, but he will be a beastly #2 at worst.
• trackandccrunner

  Maybe they should try Eric Wright at WR. Dude can make some catches. I mean they've turned Furrey from a WR to a DB lol.
• iclfan2

  

  Eric Wright is a boss.
• hoops23

  

  Eric Wright #BeastMode
• DaBrowns41

  Sage wrote: We won't be a 3-13 team next year--and you can take that to the bank.
  
  We had more talent last year--really? An "elite" receiver who was uninterested and couldn't catch? An "elite" TE that was a malcontent and couldn't stay healthy? Or was it Shaun Smith--who punched our quarterback in the face (kudos).
  
  How have those guys gone on to help their team? Any of them headed to the Pro Bowl this year? Or would you be more content with draft picks?
  
  -------------
  
  Trading down was more about than acquiring players--it also saved us from inking a cap-killing Top 5 draft pick for an underdeveloped QB. (Although, I've noticed the WE COULDA HAD SANCHIZE crowd has died down in recent months). We saved millions and acquired Alex Mack--a guy who will be a staple on our line for the next decade---along with some serviceable players that have helped our defense take the statistical leap that it has.
  
  --------------
  
  I get it. Everybody hates Mangini because they read that he was a dick. He made some rookies ride a bus to New Hampshire. (He's since apologized). He might not look like an NFL coach. Whatever.
  
  The results are on the field. Our team is in the cellar in terms of elite talent and Mangini has kept the team together and striving for a common goal. He has drafted quality, intelligent players that will be good for a long time to come. Add in the finds of Matt Roth & Evan Moore---and it's easy to see that the Browns are on the rise.
  
  ------------------
  
  But yes, lets fire a coach who doesn't have a quarterback, a right side of an offensive line, no Pro Bowl defender besides Rodgers, an elite receiver, etc. etc. etc.
  
  Lets just revamp everything and bring in a new system. Again. That sounds like a lot of fun.

  Let's also not fire a coach that wouldn't let Jerome Harrison play because "he struggled to block". Personally, I'd rather have a RB that can run the ball, and struggle to block, than have a RB that tip toes to the LOS, but can block well.
  
  That's just me.
  
  Kellen Winslow being traded wasn't a terrible move, but we got nothing for it.
  
  Braylon being traded was a good move... Unfortunately, we got nothing out of it.
  
  Adding in players like Ratliff, Elam, Mosely, and Bowens only proved to hurt us than help us. Barton was a liability in coverage, and just a stopgap.
  
  Mangini also was so smart that he picked up John St. Clair and Floyd Womack to "bolster the right side of the line".
  
  I will give him kudos on the Mack pickup, and getting rid of Shaun Smith.
  
  He was TERRIBLE with the QB situation. Almost as bad as Romeo's coinflip. You don't name a QB just a few days before the game starts. Your starting QB needs to get all the reps he can in TC, and get adjusted to the rest of the offense.
  
  Just pick a QB, and let him run the offense. Then, after Quinn struggled against 3 top defenses in the NFL, he let's Anderson continuously start, despite struggling to get even 100 yards a game against some of the worst defenses in the NFL.
  
  The Robert Royal pickup was one of the worst of the century, especially because he picked up Robert Royal to apparently be a pass catching TE, and drop 6 passes in his first 3 games. Instead, why don't you use Royal to block, since he is a blocking TE. Why not help out your "bolstered" right side of the line with Royal, as Elvis Dumervil is getting 4 sacks against them?
  
  He doesn't make adjustments, and looks baffled on the sideline. He's brought in worse players than what we had, and the results have shown it.
• DaBrowns41

  LTrain23 wrote: MoMass is going to be a beast. I don't know why people have had unreal expectations about this ROOKIE! He's made some great plays and has shown some veteran moves for a rook. He's also the only receiving threat we really have, which makes what he's done as a ROOKIE even more impressive.

  -Mo Mass is inconsistent catching the ball. He was at Georgia, and he has shown it this year.
  
  -He's not physical... at all. He just watches the ball go near him, instead of making an adjustment, and trying to catch it. Ridiculous.
  
  -He's ran so many bad routes it's ridiculous. It's because he's honestly not very smart, and has trouble remembering the plays and picking up the offense.
  
  He's got potential... Yes. But he's no better than a #2, and that's pushing it.
  
  If we switch to the WCO, he's screwed because he's not a guy that can catch the ball in traffic, over the middle.
• BRF

  

  WTG Browns!
• Sage

  

  DaBrowns41 wrote: Let's also not fire a coach that wouldn't let Jerome Harrison play because "he struggled to block". Personally, I'd rather have a RB that can run the ball, and struggle to block, than have a RB that tip toes to the LOS, but can block well.
  
  That's just me.
  
  Kellen Winslow being traded wasn't a terrible move, but we got nothing for it.
  
  Braylon being traded was a good move... Unfortunately, we got nothing out of it.

  I stopped reading here. We got a SHIT TON OF DRAFT PICKS FOR A COUPLE OF BUMS.
  
  This = Victory.
  
  ---------------
  
  Has Mangini made mistakes? Most definitely. No coach is perfect. Look at all the fuck ups Belichick has had this year.
  
  Firing Mangini is just not good for the growth of this team. If Holmgren comes in and flips us to a WCO/4-3 team... I'm going to go ballistic.
  
  That is a complete philosophical overhaul...when we're clearly on the rise.
  
  It'd be unacceptable.