Say it ain't so Lance.

• ricola

  

  http://www.usada.org/cyclinginvestigationstatement.html
  
  USADA posted info on their website today. Heard Tygart interviewed on espn a short time ago; he represented USADA well and Lance comes off basically with his hand in the cookie jar. No question in my mind he doped. Perhaps no more or less than anyone else, but he doped. He finally saw the writing on the wall and threw in the towel.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Who cares? Certainly not the thousands of cancer patients he gave hope to. Certainly not all the people that still think he is an inspiration to everyone. I remember reading an article just a few days ago that a Triathlon competition voluntarily dropped their official sanctioning so Lance could participate in it. The organization running it said they lost something like 15 athletes who left because the lost official sanctioning, but gained somewhere about 200 because of it the action.
  
  The guy has been out of the sport for YEARS. He passed every drug test. Right now you have the testimony of people who were caught cheating.
  
  Beyond that, I'm reading in the articles that they are trying to paint Lance as some mob boss who pressured everyone else (on the team) into doing it. These were grown ass men who can think for themselves. Furthermore, everyone knows the whole sport was cheating. Just look at all the people around the top of the sport at that time who had been caught with drugs at one time or another, it's everyone. Did Lance single handily do this? I'm guessing no.
  
  It's sad that this official government body was so concerned about Lance instead of investigating CURRENT athletes.
• Con_Alma

  [h=5]Lance had 11 teammates testify against him....too many to be just a jealous teammate. The accusations and amount of evidence is stunning...[/h]
• Automatik

  

  Fly4Fun;1292433 wrote:Who cares? Certainly not the thousands of cancer patients he gave hope to. Certainly not all the people that still think he is an inspiration to everyone. I remember reading an article just a few days ago that a Triathlon competition voluntarily dropped their official sanctioning so Lance could participate in it. The organization running it said they lost something like 15 athletes who left because the lost official sanctioning, but gained somewhere about 200 because of it the action.
  
  The guy has been out of the sport for YEARS. He passed every drug test. Right now you have the testimony of people who were caught cheating.
  
  Beyond that, I'm reading in the articles that they are trying to paint Lance as some mob boss who pressured everyone else (on the team) into doing it. These were grown ass men who can think for themselves. Furthermore, everyone knows the whole sport was cheating. Just look at all the people around the top of the sport at that time who had been caught with drugs at one time or another, it's everyone. Did Lance single handily do this? I'm guessing no.
  
  It's sad that this official government body was so concerned about Lance instead of investigating CURRENT athletes.

  I don't care that he doped. I care that he portrayed himself as some stand-up, holier than though citizen who in reality was doping just like everyone else.
• ricola

  

  this^
  like im many things, people will believe what they want to, despite the evidence
• jordo212000

  

  Yup. Look at the evidence and his reaction to it. Guilty.
  
  He's done good things for charity but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass from criticism
• Fly4Fun

  

  My point isn't that he is innocent. My point is that they sure are trying their hardest to make sure this specific individual pays for whatever reason. They have no hard proof. They have statements from teammates.
  
  This is a man that has done tremendous amounts of good work. More so than almost anyone alive today. Why is the government so hell bent on trying to catch him rather than policing current on-going sports? This amount of effort could have been better redirected elsewhere as I am willing to bet there are athletes out there currently cheating.
• ricola

  

  http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8487169/usada-report-lance-armstrong-end-debate-whether-doped
  
  "Case Closed. Armstrong doped"
  
  He has done a lot of good--has helped a lot of people with cancer, etc. His journey through cancer was very inspirational to many.
  (not to get off point, but Jerry Sandusky will tell you HE did a lot of good too...)
  Maybe they went to the lengths they did because Armstrong was so defiant, and more or less stated publicly in regards to the USADA "if you have proof bring it on.." Armstrong's bullying holier than thou attitude to them and anyone who dared suggest he was the cleanest man on the planet finally wore thin, and they did what they did to save face and prove to the world the USADA wasn't some Micky Mouse group.
  Of course there are athletes out there cheating--who now see the USADA is no body to screw with. And a body with teeth that may be coming after them. Perhaps they will have second thoughts about trying to go down the road Lance and so many others went before.
• Automatik

  

  His good work has absolutely nothing to do with him doping. I don't know why people even bring that up.
  
  He denied, denied, denied.
  
  No hard proof? How do you know that? He didn't want to face the music.
• said_aouita

  

  Curious how this reporting by the USADA on the USPS team will actually benefit professional cycling. It's not like suddenly all the riders will become clean. It won't happen internationally.
  
  Anyone see the "9.79" 30 for 30 special? Cycling is the same as track and field. Only the worlds best make any money. People will continue to cheat in an attempt to get paid.
  
  What the USADA did only sets cycling back farther in the states.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Automatik;1292459 wrote:His good work has absolutely nothing to do with him doping. I don't know why people even bring that up.
  
  He denied, denied, denied.
  
  No hard proof? How do you know that? He didn't want to face the music.

  Really? The tremendous amount of good he has done has nothing to do with his doping? Sorry, but I look at individuals as a whole and not fragmented parts of their lives. Furthermore the two were inextricably linked. He allegedly doped and won in such a way that inspired a sport to take off in America, inspired cancer patients to keep fighting and started a cancer research foundation that has raised millions of dollars. To me it looks like the two are attached at the hip.
  
  The man made cycling relevant in America. It increased the popularity and participation in a healthy exercise for Americans (especially older men). I know before Lance I don't recall seeing so many men in spandex riding miles on bicycles to stay fit and healthy.
  
  Beyond that there is the whole cancer fund raising and inspiration to cancer patients.
  
  This man has done so much good that trying to sully his name seems counter productive, why tear down someone that has done so much for something as trivial as possibly cheating in a sport where EVERYONE cheated. It's not in an effort to clean up the current sport as that has already been done for the most part (that's the current sentiment). This only looks like a purely vindictive grudge being waged using tax payers dollars.
  
  It would be one thing if they had hard evidence. But they don't. The only have testimony from teammates.
  
  Name one positive outcome of this continued attack on this man? I can't.
  
  It doesn't help clean up the current sport.
  
  It only harms the reputation and image of someone that means a lot to people in need of inspiration (cancer patients).
  
  It has possible but unlikely ramifications on support for a cancer research fund (possible but unlikely as I think the fund will survive as in general people don't care whether he cheated in a sport where everyone cheated).
  
  The enormous amount of time and effort looking into someone retired could have been spent elsewhere like current athletes as there still are people cheating. As long as there are sports, people will cheat. These efforts can be used to either look for current offenders or heck, better evolve technology so they can catch people cheating while they do it more often than waiting 5-10 years for the tests to catch up to the act.
  
  
  I look at a person as a whole. No one is pure good or evil. Humans are just a bunch of different shades of grey. To say that the good he has done has nothing to do with the doping is wrong.
  
  As far as no hard proof. They don't have a drug test that they have retested and proven doping. All they have is testimony.
• TedSheckler

  

  He did lots of good for a lot of people.
  
  Doesn't mean he isn't a liar, cheat, and a fraud in the sport of cycling.
• Automatik

  

  TedSheckler;1292518 wrote:He did lots of good for a lot of people.
  
  Doesn't mean he isn't a liar, cheat, and a fraud in the sport of cycling.

  In short, that's my point.
  
  I commend him for all the positives he's done. I don't dislike him, nor do I hope they keep going after him, attacking him, blah blah blah.
  
  He cheated and denied it until he felt he couldn't keep it under wraps any longer.
• Tiernan

  I'll take "Things That Are Obvious to Intelligent People" for $400 Alex...
• TedSheckler

  

  Nike severs ties with Lance.
  
  http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/17/nike-terminates-lance-armstrong-contract-livestrong/1638433/
  
  And it continues to collapse around the cheater.
• said_aouita

  

  TedSheckler;1297453 wrote:Nike severs ties with Lance.
  
  http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/17/nike-terminates-lance-armstrong-contract-livestrong/1638433/
  
  And it continues to collapse around the cheater.

  Screw the swoosh company. It's now known they paid drugged athletes in the Tour to ride.
  Now their "Oregon Project" with their secret doctors and lab rats are winning medals over the other countries.
  Hopefully some day the truth will come out about them. Sad but true the athletes with the best doctors win Olympic medals.
  It's not that USA is getting better, it's just our doctors have caught up with the other countries.
• TedSheckler

  

  Ahh yea. It's all Nike's fault. :rolleyes:
  
  Oh and he just stepped down as Livestong chairman.
• jordo212000

  

  Lol at people a few weeks ago that we're defending Armstrong's honor. When he said he was no longer fighting the charges, it was painfully obvious he was guilty. Innocent people do not accept guilt
• like_that

  

  jordo212000;1297809 wrote:Lol at people a few weeks ago that we're defending Armstrong's honor. When he said he was no longer fighting the charges, it was painfully obvious he was guilty. Innocent people do not accept guilt

  LMFAO, nice avatar.
• ricola

  

  give me a break. They knew when they were going to be tested; they knew what they were being tested for. They knew exactly how NOT to test positve. It was a very sophisticated operation. Go ahead and keep the blinders on.
  as mentioned previously--people will believe what they want to believe..
• sleeper

  

  ricola;1298037 wrote:give me a break. They knew when they were going to be tested; they knew what they were being tested for. They knew exactly how NOT to test positve. It was a very sophisticated operation. Go ahead and keep the blinders on.
  as mentioned previously--people will believe what they want to believe..

  If they knew how, why did others test positive?
  
  People will believe what they want to believe; including you.
• queencitybuckeye

  I have little doubt in my mind that he took banned substances. That said, the concept of "we tested, you passed, you're guilty" is disturbing.
• Heretic

  

  ccrunner609;1297855 wrote:And regardless of anything people have said or what sponsors do, nobody has ever showed anyone a positive test. LA is the most tested athlete EVER. He was tested every day he ever road in the tour and never failed one of those tests.
  
  I will go with that evidence for now.

  lol...the guy who during the Olympics was convinced that every single non-USA gold medal winner was doping thinks Lance is still innocent...lol
• sanitizer

  

  QUOTE]Sad but true the athletes with the best doctors win Olympic medals.
  It's not that USA is getting better, it's just our doctors have caught up with the other countries. [/QUOTE]
  
  This has more truth than many may think. I have a few friends that have and still are competing at the Olympic level and I can tell you that track and field is as dirty as it ever has been!!! One friend stated that most of the athletes that medal should have their pharmacist stand with them on the podium. It’s just sad that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on the end result that athletes are put in an "everyone else is doing it so what the heck" kind of attitude. I have been to the Olympic training facility and heard some crazy stuff. You guys know about "maximum allowable limits"? For example (the numbers have changed I am sure) you have an "allowable" window or limit to how much testosterone is in your body, this is established by the governing body. Now let’s say for the sake of this post your natural level of T is 4 and the maximum allowable limit is 9??? Well then you can stick a needle in your body all the way up until you reach the top of the designated threshold before a test is considered "dirty". Marion Jone's husband was just over the limit when he received his dirty results a few years back. It’s a joke and the testing is SO far behind it’s not even funny (and that is true). That is why the unions are fighting the move to continue to freeze urine and blood samples given. This is so the testers can test the samples at a later date when they can actually test for whatever may be in the sample that isn't now!
  
  It is dirty fellas and they keep it a secret because it is simply big business!
• friendfromlowry

  sleeper;1298125 wrote:If they knew how, why did others test positive?
  
  People will believe what they want to believe; including you.

  Reps.