Cleveland Cavaliers 11-12 season thread

• DeyDurkie5

  

  Gee looked retarded on that layup.
• hoops23

  

  David Thorpe has an NBA Insider article about redrafting last season...
  
  He had Kyrie #1
  
  He has Tristan going #2 to Minny instead of Derrick Williams.
• Mulva

  

  hoops23;1123482 wrote:And you act like Tristan has no room to grow as an offensive player. That's what is so hilarious. He can use either hand around the basket, can dunk over anyone, and is relentless on the glass.

  He's shooting 43% for the season and 39% in March. The past 2 games are the only 2 games he's scored double-digits all month. And he only has 2 double-digit rebounding games all month too. His field goal percentage has gone down every month this season as his minutes have gone up and he's been expected to take on a larger role.
  
  43%. As a power forward. Who mainly scores on dunks. He's probably shooting < 35% on non-dunks. Seriously.
  

  hoops23;1123482 wrote:Why the fuck would you trade down in a draft that was weak to begin with? Who the hell would you rather have?

  I already answered both parts of that. You trade down because there is nobody worth taking at #4 overall, but there are guys who could be decent role players available in the teens (I don't think Klay Thompson is ever going to be an all-star, but he's going to be a legit 3-point specialist for years). You add additional pieces/picks by trading down as well. Why take a role player at #4 when you can get a role player at a position of greater need + additional parts by trading down?
  
  I said I would have liked them to trade down and get Klay Thompson or Tobias Harris. That was my opinion at the time and I still think they'll both be solid players. But I wouldn't take either of them at #4 overall either.
  

  SportsAndLady;1123488 wrote:TT is definitely not "defense and hustle"

  I don't even know what to say to that one. Feel free to elaborate on what else he brings to the table.
  
  Thompson is averaging 7 and 6 with a PER of like 13. Kenneth Faried is averaging 9 and 7 and shooting a higher percentage on a winning team in less minutes per game. Kanter is stuck behind a talented frontcourt, but averaging 5 and 5 in 14 minutes vs. 7 and 6 in 21 (I know he was already gone, I'm just making a comparison for the below quote).
  
  Throw in guys like Marshon Brooks, Kemba, B Knight, and even guys like Williams, Kawhi, or Chandler Parsons and I think
  

  Crimson streak;1123205 wrote:Now it looks like we got the 2 best players out of last years class

  is just completely absurd. It's way too early to tell, but if you want to try and judge it now the numbers either don't back it up or are a toss-up between a lot of guys. The only reason to say that is because he happens to be on the Cavs.
  
  This is the part where you jump back down my throat for not being a blind Cavs homer.
• hoops23

  

  So, you're judging a 6'9'' PF who has crazy length and leaping ability, and is a great defender, during his first season which was shortened with really no training camp?
  
  Got it.
  
  We all knew he was raw offensively. He DISPLAYS the ability to improve dramatically though. He's a willing worker. I think his future is going to be very good.
  
  I liked the dude before the Cavs even picked him. Liked him at Texas. I wanted him at #4. Detroit wanted him REALLY bad as well because they targeted him at 8 and tried moving up to draft him.
  
  He can put the ball on the floor, finish with either hand, and has started to develop a nice little hook/floater as he sweeps to the side of the defender.
  
  You can trash the guy all you want, but myself and a lot of others see the potential he has.
  
  And even if he turns into a a guy who averages 10-12 PPG, his presence on the defensive side alone was worth the #4 pick in last seasons draft.
• hoops23

  

  And BTW, in two starts he shot 75% and 55%, which happens to be his last two games.
• Mulva

  

  hoops23;1123553 wrote:So, you're judging a 6'9'' PF who has crazy length and leaping ability, and is a great defender, during his first season which was shortened with really no training camp?
  
  Got it

  You clearly don't get it, since I was the one who said it's way too early to be judging last years draft.
  
  I happened to disagree with the idea that he is (or will be) the 2nd best player from that draft class. It's called an opinion. I didn't guarantee it as fact. Feel free to throw as many superlatives at him as you want, it doesn't make his performance this season any more impressive.
  

  hoops23;1123553 wrote:He can put the ball on the floor, finish with either hand, and has started to develop a nice little hook/floater as he sweeps to the side of the defender.

  Right. To the tune of 39% this month. All from within 10 feet. With 0 ability to pass out of the post. That's underwhelming at best.
  

  hoops23;1123553 wrote:You can trash the guy all you want, but myself and a lot of others see the potential he has.

  I'm only "trashing" him if he is trash, because all I did was bring up his numbers. You know, what he's actually done on the court?
  
  I said I think he'll be a solid role player. I think him and Anderson play too similarly to start both of them (another reason I didn't like the pick) and I know he's a very good defender. But I don't draft a role player at #4 overall. Trade down or trade out.
  

  hoops23;1123553 wrote:And even if he turns into a a guy who averages 10-12 PPG, his presence on the defensive side alone was worth the #4 pick in last seasons draft.

  I disagree. I wouldn't draft Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell, or Ben Wallace with the #4 overall pick either.
• grodt

  

  Maybe not, but I'm guessing the Spurs and Pistons were sure glad they had them when they were winning championships. I don't think you can put too high a price on interior defense.
• hoops23

  

  grodt;1123588 wrote:Maybe not, but I'm guessing the Spurs and Pistons were sure glad they had them when they were winning championships. I don't think you can put too high a price on interior defense.

  Sure you can. Evidently interior defense is overrated. And evidently because a 19 year old PF isn't close to polished offensively, he's not very good and not worth the #4 pick, even though David Thorpe said he would have taken T2 at #2 if the draft was done over.
  
  Mulva keeps talking about trading down or trading out... Seriously? It's obvious he doesn't like Thompson, for whatever reason.
  
  I mean, what's to like about a guy who's borderline 6'10 with arms longer than the equator? Why would you like a guy who, as a rookie, has already shown elite defensive and shot blocking prowess? Why would you like a guy who has so much untapped offensive potential?
  
  Instead of drafting him at #4, we could have traded down! AWESOME! Or, we could have just completely traded out of the draft in hopes that a future pick pans out!
• hoops23

  

  Mulva;1123565 wrote:
  I disagree. I wouldn't draft Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell, or Ben Wallace with the #4 overall pick either.

  And yes, Tristan obviously peaks as a Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell, and Ben Wallace... Clearly you don't get it.
  
  The fact is, I don't care if Tristan scores 28 points on 14 dunks or 14 jumpshots. 28 points is 28 points.
  
  You can't put a price on a big man who runs the floor well, blocks shots, plays defense, and is a willing worker. You act like everybody who comes out of college should be completely polished or some shit.
  
  You're bitching about it being too early to say he's been the 2nd best player out of the draft, but yet you're claiming he's not. You can't have it both ways.
  
  Exhibit A:
  
  [video=youtube;7gwxFibq5AE][/video]
  
  And I'm also not sure how people compare him as another Andy. They are not the same type of player.
• Crimson streak

  

  I'm extremely exited for the draft this year. If we can get Barnes next to kyrie and possibly move back into the lottery and take lamb around 12-14. This team would be ready to compete at a pretty high level. And could be a championship team in 3 years or so
• ichsnjb

  

  Crimson streak;1123654 wrote:I'm extremely exited for the draft this year. If we can get Barnes next to kyrie and possibly move back into the lottery and take lamb around 12-14. This team would be ready to compete at a pretty high level. And could be a championship team in 3 years or so

  
  If there's anyway we can rather get Beadley Beal over Lamb, I'd choose that. IMO, he's a NBA-made freshman who can shoot from outside at will.
• sleeper

  

  TT is very good and I'm liking the pick more and more as time goes on. If we can get a wing scorer, this team will be back to championship contention, sooner rather than later.
• sleeper

  

  ichsnjb;1123693 wrote:If there's anyway we can rather get Beadley Beal over Lamb, I'd choose that. IMO, he's a NBA-made freshman who can shoot from outside at will.

  This. I'd much rather have Beal over Lamb. Beal is the real deal.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Tom Reed of The Plain Dealer Some high draft picks do not want to attend the NBA's summer leagueafter they have established themselves. Irving is not in that category. "Even if Coach Scott didn't want me to go, I was going to be there anyway," Irving said. Scott believes it would be good for rookies Irving and Tristan Thompson to play together, even if it's only for a few games. Irving went a step further: With as many as four draft picks joining the team in July, the newbies will have a chance to play with the starting point guard. Due to the lockout, neither Irving nor Thompson took part in last year's summer league in Las Vegas. Irving said he knows it can be an anxious time for young guys trying to make a favorable impression. "I'm going there to cool everybody down," Irving said. "[I'll] be the cool guy down there."
  
  GOATrie Irving.
• Crimson streak

  

  ichsnjb;1123693 wrote:If there's anyway we can rather get Beadley Beal over Lamb, I'd choose that. IMO, he's a NBA-made freshman who can shoot from outside at will.

  
  Me too but I don't think he is there past 6-7 where I have seen lamb as long as 14. So it really depends how it plays out and who gets what pick.
• hoops23

  

  Commander of Awesome;1123905 wrote:Tom Reed of The Plain Dealer Some high draft picks do not want to attend the NBA's summer leagueafter they have established themselves. Irving is not in that category. "Even if Coach Scott didn't want me to go, I was going to be there anyway," Irving said. Scott believes it would be good for rookies Irving and Tristan Thompson to play together, even if it's only for a few games. Irving went a step further: With as many as four draft picks joining the team in July, the newbies will have a chance to play with the starting point guard. Due to the lockout, neither Irving nor Thompson took part in last year's summer league in Las Vegas. Irving said he knows it can be an anxious time for young guys trying to make a favorable impression. "I'm going there to cool everybody down," Irving said. "[I'll] be the cool guy down there."
  
  GOATrie Irving.

  Since Sessions was traded and Kyrie became full time PG (3 games), he's averaging 24.7 points, 8.7 assists, 5.7 rebounds, 2 steals
  
  Irving's interview on NBA TV was great as well. The kid has such a great basketball mind.
  
  [video=youtube;K3yqxcFYj3M][/video]
• Mulva

  

  hoops23;1123612 wrote:You're bitching about it being too early to say he's been the 2nd best player out of the draft, but yet you're claiming he's not. You can't have it both ways.

  Your reading comprehension is horrific.
  

  Mulva;1123292 wrote:I'm still not a fan of the pick and disagree with the "2 best players" comment, even though it's way too early to judge something like that.

  I don't get what's confusing about that comment. It's way too early to make a definitive statement like "it looks like we got the best 2 players in the draft" when there are plenty of examples of all-star players who took up to 3-5 years to really hit their stride, but in my opinion when it's all said and done I don't think it will be correct and even if you want to make that judgment now (which can't be fairly done, but again I'm not the one who brought it up to begin with) the current on-court results don't back the claim up.
  
  Saying "it looks like we got the 2 best players in the draft" has absolutely nothing to do with potential. It's making a claim based on what has been shown.
  
  And I'm not bitching about anything. I'm giving a completely reasonable opinion, but because it isn't sucking the Cleveland dick you can't comprehend it. Which really isn't surprising from the guy who went nuts defending fucking Luis Valbuena and James Davis when I said they weren't good players. You are the ultimate homer. Which is fine, but it doesn't mean I'm bitching about anything because I don't do it too.
  

  grodt;1123588 wrote:Maybe not, but I'm guessing the Spurs and Pistons were sure glad they had them when they were winning championships. I don't think you can put too high a price on interior defense.

  I'm sure they were too. But I wouldn't personally have drafted them #4 overall. And those were 1st team all NBA defenders.
  
  If you make the comparison to solid defenders who aren't at the all-NBA level - guys like Serge Ibaka or Kendrick Perkins, would anybody really want to use a top 5 pick on them?
  
  Bowen, Wallace, Raja Bell, etc. all went undrafted (Alonzo Gee on a lesser level). Not only not top 5 picks. Undrafted. It's much easier to find someone who struggles offensively but can lock you down on D than it is to find someone who can straight fill it up offensively. Those are the guys who have superstar potential, and those are the guys I spend a top 5 pick on. If none of them are there, I trade back or trade out. It's why I disagreed with the pick then, it's why I disagree now. I don't think Thompson is ever going to be an all-star, and so at #4 overall that isn't worth it to me.
  
  It's a personal opinion. We can move on whenever you guys want.
• dazedconfused

  

  mulva, with what was left at 4, who would have you preferred? you may have mentioned it but i missed it
• Mulva

  

  dazedconfused;1124275 wrote:mulva, with what was left at 4, who would have you preferred? you may have mentioned it but i missed it

  I did mention it. I wanted Irving and Kanter. Once Kanter was gone, I didn't like anybody at 4. I liked Klay Thompson and Tobias Harris, but neither of them in the top 10. Would have either traded down to the 12-16 range (and added another young player or future pick too), or traded the #4 for a future 1st round pick/picks.
  
  I don't know if trading a top 5 pick for a future unknown 1st round pick has ever been done, but I really thought and still think the draft last year was that bad, that the #10 pick most years would have as much value as the #4 was last year.
  
  And for this upcoming draft I think you might even get more value picking at #12 or even 15.
  
  I think TT is a very good defender and will be a solid role player for a long time, but I definitely don't think he has superstar potential and I think the Cavs could have turned the #4 pick into more.
• hoops23

  

  Tristan Thompson with 15/11 tonight with 2 blocks.
  
  Also went 5/5 on FT's.
• KR1245

  

  hoops23;1125812 wrote:Tristan Thompson with 15/11 tonight with 2 blocks.
  
  Also went 5/5 on FT's.

  TT played a solid game. The Cavs get NOTHING from the 2 or 3, its painful to watch
  
  Is it me or do the Magic always shoot lights out vs the Cavs? It seems like they never miss. I dont even know how many damn 3's they made
• hoops23

  

  KR1245;1125849 wrote:TT played a solid game. The Cavs get NOTHING from the 2 or 3, its painful to watch
  
  Is it me or do the Magic always shoot lights out vs the Cavs? It seems like they never miss. I dont even know how many damn 3's they made

  considering they score like 68 points against every other team, yes.
  
  Also, I think games like this prove we need a 2 or 3 in the draft.
• lhslep134

  

  I want to do whatever it takes to get Brad Beal. We have 4 first rounders between this year and next year, and 4 picks in the top 40 this year. Lets trade up or hope we win the lottery. IMO he's the best 2 in the draft and I don't think he'll be there at 8 or 9.
• ichsnjb

  

  Just imagine this line up:
  
  Kyrie Irving
  Brad Beal
  Harrison Barnes
  Tristan Thompson
  A Healthy Anderson Varejáo
  
  Cavs FTW!
• GOONx19

  

  ^ You're an idiot.