Columbus:Officer shoots 13-year old, who pulled BB Gun on them during chase
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ZWICK 4 PREZ
like_that;1812055 wrote:
Or blacks commit the majority of the crimes in this country and thus police encounter blacks more than any other race. It's really not that hard of a concept to understand.
Even if blacks commit crimes at a higher rate, it doesn't absolve police from excessive violence. It doesn't somehow make it acceptable and negate any necessary reform.
Sleeper only has hot takes and is why he's insufferable.like_that;1812055 wrote:
Sleeper definitely has hot takes, but in this particular case his hyperbole is making a point that you refuse to address. YOU might be protesting bad cops, but the majority (BLM, media, etc) are grouping all cops together. Even our fearless leaders or anyone with some type of a platform does the same thing. If these people came out and said some cops are bad, but it's also time to reflect on the fact that 70% of the households are fatherless then maybe something would get done. Imagine if BLM or the likes of Obama addressed the family structure issue. Unfortunately they don't. I still haven't seen a legitimate argument for the family structure issue. The only argument I have seen so far is that 70% of black fathers are unfairly arrested (even though blacks commit the majority of crimes). Oh and shitty schools with "shitty" teachers even though a school district like DC has the lowest graduation rate in the country despite spending the 2nd most per student. I still would also like to know what the excuse is for the Asians? Why are they successful?
The most ironic part of all this is you will most likely preach the exact opposite of what you are saying here to your children. Pretty much a successful liberal in a nutshell. They don't preach what they practice when it comes to affecting other lives.
I know some are making an absolute argument, like Sleeper, just in reverse. But from what I've seen of the BLM movement, that's not that case. It's just like anything else in this country and gets the coverage b/c its sensationalized and sells better. I'd honestly say each and every one of my black friends who support BLM acknowledge is the minority of police who cause the movement, but the fact nothing is done about this minority of police necessitates the movement. Police protect the shield, no questions ask. They protect those that shouldn't be protected b/c they fall under that shield. And that's the issue. You know there will never be change when the police blindly protect the shield. That's what's exacerbating this problem. Blacks in general know nothing is going to be done about this b/c we have a police union who will never admit they have some bad apples in their effort to protect the shield.
Also, I'm interested in exactly what you think I'd preach to my children differently. There's literally no reason to. -
like_that
Nobody said it absolves cops from excessive violence. I was countering your point by explaining why it happens to blacks more than any other race. Blacks commit the most crimes and as a result they engage with the police more. It's not acceptable, but also isn't as prevalent (when comparing to all police interactions every day) as people make it out to be, especially when there is compliance.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812056 wrote:Even if blacks commit crimes at a higher rate, it doesn't absolve police from excessive violence. It doesn't somehow make it acceptable and negate any necessary reform.
Sleeper only has hot takes and is why he's insufferable.
I know some are making an absolute argument, like Sleeper, just in reverse. But from what I've seen of the BLM movement, that's not that case. It's just like anything else in this country and gets the coverage b/c its sensationalized and sells better. I'd honestly say each and every one of my black friends who support BLM acknowledge is the minority of police who cause the movement, but the fact nothing is done about this minority of police necessitates the movement. Police protect the shield, no questions ask. They protect those that shouldn't be protected b/c they fall under that shield. And that's the issue. You know there will never be change when the police blindly protect the shield. That's what's exacerbating this problem. Blacks in general know nothing is going to be done about this b/c we have a police union who will never admit they have some bad apples in their effort to protect the shield.
Also, I'm interested in exactly what you think I'd preach to my children differently. There's literally no reason to.
I have no idea how you see the exact opposite with BLM. They are literally doing what you are dissing sleeper for, except they aren't addressing any facts. I wish the police unions would address that they have some bad apples. The military does and they take care of those people. If the police unions were willing to admit there are some bad apples, would the black communities admit they need to resolve their family structure issue? I am willing to bet not. It's all about the bottom line and there is too much $ and votes to be had if they addressed the root core issue.
You and your wife are educated, so I am going to assume you would preach education and discipline with your children. Something tells me that when your kids get old enough you will tell them something to the tune of never talk back to cops or challenge them. I could be completely wrong and you won't do that, but I have a hunch you will.
The main point I was making there is you will most likely discipline your children and focus on their education, but you won't hold -
SportsAndLady
Aka you just can't stand what he's saying because you're so god damn liberal you can't handle reality.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812056 wrote:
Sleeper only has hot takes and is why he's insufferable. . -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Or.. you know.. that's literally all Sleepers posting career is made of. Either one.SportsAndLady;1812059 wrote:Aka you just can't stand what he's saying because you're so god damn liberal you can't handle reality. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
The only way you don't see that BLM is addressing police brutality is that you don't want to. We've already established you have people being idiots in that name. You're not going to change that. You can't. It still doesn't invalidate the cause. It's still an issue that needs addressed. It's still an issue that we (look at this fucking thread alone) defend police automatically when they kill someone unarmed with hands on their car. It's fucking disgusting and it's a lie to say we don't do this b/c of systemic prejudices we've built. The comments from the officer in the helicopter prove that. The comments from Sleeper and Laley and S&L prove it. The constant need to invalidate BLM movement proves it. Quit lying to ourselves and pretend is not a problem b/c we say it isn't.like_that;1812057 wrote:Nobody said it absolves cops from excessive violence. I was countering your point by explaining why it happens to blacks more than any other race. Blacks commit the most crimes and as a result they engage with the police more. It's not acceptable, but also isn't as prevalent (when comparing to all police interactions every day) as people make it out to be, especially when there is compliance.
I have no idea how you see the exact opposite with BLM. They are literally doing what you are dissing sleeper for, except they aren't addressing any facts. I wish the police unions would address that they have some bad apples. The military does and they take care of those people. If the police unions were willing to admit there are some bad apples, would the black communities admit they need to resolve their family structure issue? I am willing to bet not. It's all about the bottom line and there is too much $ and votes to be had if they addressed the root core issue.
You and your wife are educated, so I am going to assume you would preach education and discipline with your children. Something tells me that when your kids get old enough you will tell them something to the tune of never talk back to cops or challenge them. I could be completely wrong and you won't do that, but I have a hunch you will.
The main point I was making there is you will most likely discipline your children and focus on their education, but you won't hold
And you teach your kids to respect everyone till they lose that respect. You ever stop and think maybe cops have lost that respect on their own to segments that have been abused? That's why the reform is needed. -
sleeper
If that's the case, are you willing to double the police force and pay the appropriate taxes? We can't have public safety officials burning hours at a traffic stop because someone decides they want to protest traffic light laws and won't give their driver's license to the police. And there's no recourse anymore because you've given citizens the A-okay to disobey police orders because a fraction of a fraction of a percent of police stops end poorly.BoatShoes;1812026 wrote:I am fine with non-violent resistance to police force under certain circumstances and it has many times been a positive for societal progress.
That's really my angle. I'm not okay with police officers killing innocent civilians for routine traffic stops but it happens so infrequently that it's barely worth discussing. The media makes it seem like cops are just out there slaughtering black folks every day for no reason when the reality is 99% of the time they have a good reason and the 1% they don't the cop ends up going to jail(see Walter Scott and probably this lady too).
Reality doesn't line up with the narrative. Time to grow up. -
sleeper
We don't face them that often. That is the point. I don't think you understand how small .0000000000001%; the media overplays these cases but they are a rare occurrence and most of them up being justified when the facts come out even from independent investigators and the Obama led DOJ.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1811982 wrote:Yeah dude! It's 00000000000001%.
No ones disputing here that the majority of police interactions aren't handled fine. Only sleeper wants to push that straw man. But .. and it's a huge but.. the fact we still face these interactions as often as we do shows there's still a problem that needs addressed. And no.. I don't expect you or many on this site to agree.
Sorry reality is different than your narrative. -
sleeper
I'd argue pretty easily that its not a police issue.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812029 wrote:It's a police issue, not a white guy shooting black guy issue. The race aspect is how black men are targeted with police abuse at a much higher rate than white men. The race aspect is how we've shown to let prejudices affect our judgment in the use of deadly force. It's not about white shooting blacks you fucking simpleton.
But again, you aren't interested in facts or reality because it goes against your narrative. -
sleeper
Facts don't matter; black lives matter.queencitybuckeye;1812036 wrote:Interesting that unless it's a different case than the one I'm thinking of, due process confirmed that the "idiots" were correct. You do understand that the forensic evidence proved conclusively that the "Hands up don't shoot" witnesses were lying, correct? A carbuncle on the ass of humanity tried to take a cop's gun and got smoked.THAT'S the (IMO valid) issue with BLM. Facts, and the process needed to ascertain the facts don't matter. That a cop kills a black is all they seem to need to know.
Don't distract from the main issue here! -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
You'd argue that its not a police issue that police are killing unarmed people.sleeper;1812070 wrote:I'd argue pretty easily that its not a police issue.
But again, you aren't interested in facts or reality because it goes against your narrative.
Well, yeah, I'd suppose you would. -
sleeper
I don't think anyone in this particular case is saying the cop is innocent. We are merely waiting for an investigation into the facts of the case before passing judgement.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812050 wrote:fair enough.. what I saw was definitely enough to conclude it was bizarre and likely handled wrong, not automatically jump to the poor cops aid like majority of the posters did.
We live in a civilized society and don't have mob justice. Its not defending the cop; its defending the process in which BLM gives no shits about because it wants the narrative not the facts. FWIW, in this case, it looks pretty damning for the cop but I'll wait until the investigation is completed. -
sleeper
It's not. Individuals within the police force making a deadly mistake is not the same as systemic issue of police across the country; especially given the fraction of a percentage that this occurs.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812072 wrote:You'd argue that its not a police issue that police are killing unarmed people.
Well, yeah, I'd suppose you would.
Protect that narrative though! Ignore the facts and then claim I don't have nuanced thinking. LOL -
iclfan2
This is where I specifically disagree. BLM addresses any police killing whether it is valid or not. So that isn't addressing Brutality, it is just them bitching because they can and the media has given them a voice. Further, the movement is invalidated because the entire premise of "black lives matters" is dumb because they are literally only focusing on blacks killed by cops. Not all of the other black lives out there. In fact, the only thing BLM has accomplished is that police have stopped actively patrolling areas and more murders are occurring. Chicago and Baltimore are on record pace. You say the police protect the shield (and I agree), but BLM does the same thing and NEVER admits when someone is killed with a valid reason, or commends the cops for taking dangerous criminals off the streets.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812063 wrote:The only way you don't see that BLM is addressing police brutality is that you don't want to. The constant need to invalidate BLM movement proves it. Quit lying to ourselves and pretend is not a problem b/c we say it isn't.
Police brutality is only a "problem" depending on your definition of problem. It doesn't happen often at all, and each incident is separate and isolated. With social media, it makes it seem like it happens a lot more, and agendas try to link them as all part of the same "problem" even though each situation is distinctively different.
I am the first to have a problem with a lot of police officers. They have basic training skills, are getting paid squat, and it isn't rocket scientists going into this profession. They pull people over for the dumbest things to make a buck. I also think Tamir Rice and Walter Scott (among others) were completely absurd and the people need brought to justice. But painting a broad brush over each situation, some valid, some not, some in the middle, is where the whole movement breaks down for me. Of course I don't want innocent people to die, and of course I want police abusing their powers to be punished. That doesn't mean I don't get to question the group, their motives, and cases where it isn't black and white. How many times have the media been wrong on these? 90%? Twitter has shown me how stupid people in this country really are. Oh, you thought some ghetto chick yelling the guy was reading a book was probably valid? then you are an idiot. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Its not about saying the cop is innocent.. its making excuses of why he was shot. Which most certainly was offered.sleeper;1812073 wrote:I don't think anyone in this particular case is saying the cop is innocent. We are merely waiting for an investigation into the facts of the case before passing judgement.
We live in a civilized society and don't have mob justice. Its not defending the cop; its defending the process in which BLM gives no shits about because it wants the narrative not the facts. FWIW, in this case, it looks pretty damning for the cop but I'll wait until the investigation is completed. -
sleeper
This.SportsAndLady;1812059 wrote:Aka you just can't stand what he's saying because you're so god damn liberal you can't handle reality.
I only use facts and reality. The facts simply don't support BLM or this idea of institutionalized racism. It's a narrative designed to keep black people voting Democrat; it's really that simple. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Ok so individuals, who happen to be police officers and in the position of authority as police officers are doing it.. but its not a police issue.. got it!sleeper;1812074 wrote:It's not. Individuals within the police force making a deadly mistake is not the same as systemic issue of police across the country; especially given the fraction of a percentage that this occurs.
Protect that narrative though! Ignore the facts and then claim I don't have nuanced thinking. LOL -
sleeper
I'm sure there are a few idiots that made that claim.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812076 wrote:Its not about saying the cop is innocent.. its making excuses of why he was shot. Which most certainly was offered.
But those people aren't out there destroying a city on false narratives that you condone and support. When you use bad data and lies to manipulate people to protect the narrative, you're going to have a bad time. The blood is on BLM and their sympathizers and that is the reality. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
lol the blood is on all of our hands. This isn't a singular issue. It's not one person or groups fault. We're in a collective fuckery right now.sleeper;1812080 wrote:I'm sure there are a few idiots that made that claim.
But those people aren't out there destroying a city on false narratives that you condone and support. When you use bad data and lies to manipulate people to protect the narrative, you're going to have a bad time. The blood is on BLM and their sympathizers and that is the reality. -
sleeper
If it happens as infrequently as it does then yes it not a police issue.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812078 wrote:Ok so individuals, who happen to be police officers and in the position of authority as police officers are doing it.. but its not a police issue.. got it!
Look at the facts and then get back to me. I'm done with your SJW shit. READ THE FUCKING FACTS. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
No i just dismiss half wits who don't acknowledge an issue b/c it doesn't happen enough for them.. like you.sleeper;1812082 wrote:If it happens as infrequently as it does then yes it not a police issue.
Look at the facts and then get back to me. I'm done with your SJW shit. READ THE FUCKING FACTS. -
sleeper
LOL.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812084 wrote:No i just dismiss half wits who don't acknowledge an issue b/c it doesn't happen enough for them.. like you.
Police are always going to make mistakes especially given that they never deal with perfect information and are forced into gray areas and bad situations as part of their job on a daily basis. The fact that millions and millions of police interactions go off without a hitch and only a fraction of a percentage end up being killed and an even tinier percent of those killed are unjustified its pretty easy to declare that this is not an issue and burning your town down isn't going to solve it.
Grow up and read the facts. Learn to think for yourself while you're at it. -
Rotinaj
[video=youtube;R7yYARGFKbM] 7yYARGFKbM&has_verified=1[/video]
Good thing the races weren't reversed here. Would be all over the news and riots would of went from just the city to the entire state. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
This isn't cases of people being detained too long and missing dinner. If that were the case, I'd agree with you. This is arguing people being murdered.sleeper;1812085 wrote:LOL.
Police are always going to make mistakes especially given that they never deal with perfect information and are forced into gray areas and bad situations as part of their job on a daily basis. The fact that millions and millions of police interactions go off without a hitch and only a fraction of a percentage end up being killed and an even tinier percent of those killed are unjustified its pretty easy to declare that this is not an issue and burning your town down isn't going to solve it.
Grow up and read the facts. Learn to think for yourself while you're at it. -
sleeper
Good thing we have the judicial system to handle prosecuting people for murder.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812088 wrote:This isn't cases of people being detained too long and missing dinner. If that were the case, I'd agree with you. This is arguing people being murdered.
Again, what's the problem here? This is a civilized society run by due process and not mob rule. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
oh I dunno.. maybe a conflict of interest when having police investigate police? Or how bout we fix the system of people being murdered instead of the after effects.sleeper;1812089 wrote:Good thing we have the judicial system to handle prosecuting people for murder.
Again, what's the problem here? This is a civilized society run by due process and not mob rule.