losing your religion

• jmog

  sleeper;1791995 wrote:Can you please quote the bible that precludes the existence of unicorns?

  Not relevant, I am not making the claim that unicorns are real and/or would destroy Christianity like Tiernan is about aliens.
  
  I know logical discussions are not your forte, but please try a little harder.
• QuakerOats

  Tiernan;1791978 wrote:We are getting closer and closer to the day when intelligent alien life is discovered somewhere else in the Universe and at that exact moment every religious doctrine on earth collapses. I hope I'm still around to see it. I'm curious what we will do with all the churches, synagogues and mosques? Not to mention the millions of charlatan ministers, priests, rabbis and imams...gonna be a huge spike in unemployment.

  What kind of nonsense is this? God created all of the universe, including life in that universe that may be elsewhere from Earth. Get in the game.
• Wolves of Babylon

  Maybe once Jesus died here he was actually resurrected on other planets and has been doing the same routine all over the universe and that would explain what is taking him so long to come back to Earth.
  
  Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
• Tiernan

  ^^^
  Slow down there Sparky...didn't God create Man in his own image? When the super intelligent beings with reptile scales show up somebody's gonna have a lot of 'splainin to do. And isn't Christianity based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ a man that supposedly lived right here on earth? Are you saying that Jesus may have thousands of twin brothers across the Universe that also rose from the dead on Endor, Tattooine...etc, etc? It kills me to ever be on Sleeper's team but since it's actually Team Reality i guess I'm OK with it.
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1792003 wrote:Not relevant, I am not making the claim that unicorns are real and/or would destroy Christianity like Tiernan is about aliens.
  
  I know logical discussions are not your forte, but please try a little harder.

  Actually it is relevant. Like most things religious based, they can't hold a candle to simple logic and reason. Your claim is akin to saying because Unicorns aren't explicitly mentioned to not exit in the bible, that means they can or do exist. This is the broken logic that is all too common in your fundamental life belief system.
• sleeper

  

  QuakerOats;1792005 wrote:What kind of nonsense is this? God created all of the universe, including life in that universe that may be elsewhere from Earth. Get in the game.

  Prove it.
• sleeper

  

  Wolves of Babylon;1792013 wrote:Maybe once Jesus died here he was actually resurrected on other planets and has been doing the same routine all over the universe and that would explain what is taking him so long to come back to Earth.
  
  Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

  Well since the entire story of Jesus is made up, your claim is just as accurate as any claim made in the bible. Pretty incredible that billions of people believe in a religion that a random user on the internet can post a bunch of gibberish about it and be just as accurate as anything currently established.
  
  The threshold for validity is actually zero. Incredible.
• Wolves of Babylon

  I hope my post came across as sarcasm because I wouldn't want anyone, even a stranger on the Internet to think I would believe something like that.
  
  Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
• jmog

  sleeper;1792017 wrote:Actually it is relevant. Like most things religious based, they can't hold a candle to simple logic and reason. Your claim is akin to saying because Unicorns aren't explicitly mentioned to not exit in the bible, that means they can or do exist. This is the broken logic that is all too common in your fundamental life belief system.

  Actually no, once again you are having problem following a logical discussion.
  
  Tiernan stated that aliens would exclusively eliminate religion since they are not mentioned/talked about/whatever in religious texts.
  
  If there is a religious text that states that we are alone, then I would agree aliens would crush that religion. This is why I asked for a passage in the Bible that eliminated the possibility of aliens.
  
  Matter of fact, in Ezekiel, he saw a wheel in the sky described like this: "This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel."
  
  So a wheel in the sky that was bright/lit up.
  
  Google image search "Ezekiel's wheel" and you will see some artist renditions of how it was described.
  
  I am not saying that Ezekiel saw an alien UFO, I am saying that the Bible does not specifically eliminate the possibility (at least no where I can find).
• sleeper

  

  Wolves of Babylon;1792020 wrote:I hope my post came across as sarcasm because I wouldn't want anyone, even a stranger on the Internet to think I would believe something like that.
  
  Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

  It doesn't matter if it was sarcasm or not, your statement has the same amount of validity as any organized religion. That's what happens you something is established with zero evidence.
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1792023 wrote:Actually no, once again you are having problem following a logical discussion.
  
  Tiernan stated that aliens would exclusively eliminate religion since they are not mentioned/talked about/whatever in religious texts.
  
  If there is a religious text that states that we are alone, then I would agree aliens would crush that religion. This is why I asked for a passage in the Bible that eliminated the possibility of aliens.
  
  Matter of fact, in Ezekiel, he saw a wheel in the sky described like this: "This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel."
  
  So a wheel in the sky that was bright/lit up.
  
  Google image search "Ezekiel's wheel" and you will see some artist renditions of how it was described.
  
  I am not saying that Ezekiel saw an alien UFO, I am saying that the Bible does not specifically eliminate the possibility (at least no where I can find).

  This is exactly what I was talking about in a few posts up. The Bible is so vague and poorly written that you can morph any phrase to suit a convenient argument. Maybe in a 1000 more years people will finally know what to believe once scholars decipher what is real and what is a parable.
  
  The book is a joke, the religion is a joke; time to grow up and accept reality.
• jmog

  Tiernan;1792016 wrote:^^^
  Slow down there Sparky...didn't God create Man in his own image? When the super intelligent beings with reptile scales show up somebody's gonna have a lot of 'splainin to do. And isn't Christianity based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ a man that supposedly lived right here on earth? Are you saying that Jesus may have thousands of twin brothers across the Universe that also rose from the dead on Endor, Tattooine...etc, etc? It kills me to ever be on Sleeper's team but since it's actually Team Reality i guess I'm OK with it.

  Ok, for the sake of the next few sentences we are going to assume the Bible is true AND aliens are real...
  
  1. According to the Bible God did create man "in his own image". Your assumption that aliens will look MUCH different than humans is an assumption. We have no testable theory that aliens will look like giant reptiles, be silicon based life forms, etc. Maybe these carbon based life forms we see on Earth are about the only possible way for life to exist? Also, the "image" of God does not necessarily mean appearance. Some theologians believe that this is just meaning that humans have a soul while other other life forms on Earth do not. The soul is the "image" that is like God.
  
  2. Why would the resurrection of Jesus preclude aliens from existing? Why couldn't 1 of 2 things be true anywhere else that has life? For one, God could have come down to their plant as their version of 'man' and fulfill the similar parts that Jesus the man did here on Earth. The other possibility would be that their version of "Adam and Eve" did not commit the original sin so there would be no need for a God savior.
  
  3. Think of the Bible as the 'story' of humans relationship with God (again, this is making the assumption the Bible is true). Why couldn't/wouldn't a sentient alien species have a different relationship with God? I mean if you have kids you have a somewhat different relationship with each kid and different experiences.
  
  You claim to be on team "reality" but are talking about meeting aliens, that we also have zero evidence exists. The best evidence for aliens is that there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars/solar systems in each galaxy so the laws of probability says that SOMEONE has to be out there.
  
  There is more evidence supporting an existence of a supreme being than an existence of a sentient alien life form.
• jmog

  sleeper;1792027 wrote:This is exactly what I was talking about in a few posts up. The Bible is so vague and poorly written that you can morph any phrase to suit a convenient argument. Maybe in a 1000 more years people will finally know what to believe once scholars decipher what is real and what is a parable.
  
  The book is a joke, the religion is a joke; time to grow up and accept reality.

  You speak in gibberish once you get upset. What is "vague" about text that says a man saw wheels in the sky that sparkled like topaz? I would say that is the opposite of 'vague'.
  
  Written in a time when electricity hadn't been discovered and the wheel was the best form of transportation (chariots, etc), the best description possible of something round in the sky that was bright/light up would be a wheel that sparkled like some gem (you know, a gem when light shines on it?).
  
  He wasn't going to say "I saw a spacecraft with lights on it" when the person writing the passage (Ezekiel) had no idea what lights or spacecraft was?
  
  (again, assuming it was a UFO, which I don't believe it was).
• QuakerOats

  Tiernan;1792016 wrote:^^^
  Slow down there Sparky...didn't God create Man in his own image? When the super intelligent beings with reptile scales show up somebody's gonna have a lot of 'splainin to do. And isn't Christianity based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ a man that supposedly lived right here on earth? Are you saying that Jesus may have thousands of twin brothers across the Universe that also rose from the dead on Endor, Tattooine...etc, etc? It kills me to ever be on Sleeper's team but since it's actually Team Reality i guess I'm OK with it.

  
  Wow.
• Tiernan

  Jmog...are you living in a "news vacuum"? ...we already know that bacterial microbes (life!!!) exists on Mars the nearest planet to us. As Sleeper keeps yammering there is absolutely zero, zilch, nada, big fat goose egg of evidence a Supreme Being exists. What I continue to chuckle at about you "believers" is that (if) there really was a Supreme Being the guy does such a shitty job at "loving His sheep" why in GOD's name (pun intended...) would you ever want to follow such a fuck up at His one & only Job?
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1792030 wrote:You speak in gibberish once you get upset. What is "vague" about text that says a man saw wheels in the sky that sparkled like topaz? I would say that is the opposite of 'vague'.
  
  Written in a time when electricity hadn't been discovered and the wheel was the best form of transportation (chariots, etc), the best description possible of something round in the sky that was bright/light up would be a wheel that sparkled like some gem (you know, a gem when light shines on it?).
  
  He wasn't going to say "I saw a spacecraft with lights on it" when the person writing the passage (Ezekiel) had no idea what lights or spacecraft was?
  
  (again, assuming it was a UFO, which I don't believe it was).

  Can you prove this story is real?
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1792029 wrote:There is more evidence supporting an existence of a supreme being than an existence of a sentient alien life form.

  LOL.
• Automatik

  

  Support of a supreme being compared to the evidence that bacteria existed on Mars?
  
  Link?
• jmog

  Tiernan;1792033 wrote:Jmog...are you living in a "news vacuum"? ...we already know that bacterial microbes (life!!!) exists on Mars the nearest planet to us. As Sleeper keeps yammering there is absolutely zero, zilch, nada, big fat goose egg of evidence a Supreme Being exists. What I continue to chuckle at about you "believers" is that (if) there really was a Supreme Being the guy does such a shitty job at "loving His sheep" why in GOD's name (pun intended...) would you ever want to follow such a fuck up at His one & only Job?

  You got your science wrong, or just read a headline and didn't read the actual findings.
  
  They have NOT found bacterial microbes on Mars. They have found "organic material" and minerals on a meteorite that came from Mars to Earth. Oil is an organic material, so is plastic, etc, none of which is "life".
  
  They have also found that the "bacterial microbes" that the Rover 'found' actually came from Earth and hitched a ride on the Rover. (http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/meet-the-martians)
  
  Unless I have been in a "news vacuum", can you please show me the bacterial microbes that exist on Mars that we did NOT "forward contaminate"?
  
  Read the science articles, not the headlines from Google and you will get the whole story.
• jmog

  sleeper;1792039 wrote:Can you prove this story is real?

  I did not say the story was real. I was using it as evidence against Tiernan's assertion that "aliens would disprove all religion".
• jmog

  Direct from the article on "bacteria on Mars"
  
  "The scientists found evidence of small round objects that look like bacteria on Earth, plus organic molecules and minerals that they think were made by the bacteria. There is also evidence that there may have been water on Mars a long time ago. Most scientists believe that water is necessary for life."
  
  Nowhere did it say they found actual life on Mars.
  
  I, as a science geek, would love that story and find it extremely interesting (I love any science/news about things in space/universe) but it just is not a true statement to say that "we have found bacteria on Mars".
  
  <!--n-->
• jmog

  Automatik;1792043 wrote:Support of a supreme being compared to the evidence that bacteria existed on Mars?
  
  Link?

  Read what I wrote, I said sentient life, not more evidence than bacteria on Mars.
• Heretic

  

  QuakerOats;1792005 wrote:What kind of nonsense is this? God created all of the universe, including life in that universe that may be elsewhere from Earth. Get in the game.

  True. Cthulhu's reach is far and wide. And you are never safe.
• Automatik

  

  jmog;1792050 wrote:Read what I wrote, I said sentient life, not more evidence than bacteria on Mars.

  Please provide your "supreme being" evidence.
• jmog

  Automatik;1792064 wrote:Please provide your "supreme being" evidence.

  1. The only one evidence of sentient life is "we it has to exist with the trillions of stars in the universe".
  2. I have already talked about "fine tuning" being evidence that many scientists say suggest a supreme being causing the same order as it couldn't have been "random".
  3. DNA is a genetic information/language and the Scientific Second Law of Information states that information can only come from a sentient being.
  
  #3 leaves only aliens or a supreme being as the originator of life on Earth.