losing your religion

• QuakerOats

  sleeper;1791878 wrote:These are unknown and not explainable events in the real world. So the answer is, we don't know currently! That doesn't mean we will never know but we certainly do not know at this point and that's okay.
  
  However, contrast that to your beliefs, one that you dedicate your entire life too, that has a story with zero evidence and zero reality associated with it. I don't expect you to see the difference but if you are honest and have a brain larger than that or a turkey, you can easily see it.

  
  I think you misread something --- you apparently think it is all about 'dedicating your life to your religion'; but in reality is more about dedicating your life to the service of others in need and contributing to the greater community as a whole, and it is through our religion and faith that we are emboldened to do so. It is about living every day in a Christ-like manner, not necessarily kneeling at an altar every Sunday morning.
  
  
  Good luck, and God bless.
• sleeper

  

  QuakerOats;1791884 wrote:I think you misread something --- you apparently think it is all about 'dedicating your life to your religion'; but in reality is more about dedicating your life to the service of others in need and contributing to the greater community as a whole, and it is through our religion and faith that we are emboldened to do so. It is about living every day in a Christ-like manner, not necessarily kneeling at an altar every Sunday morning.
  
  
  Good luck, and God bless.

  You can dedicate your life to the service of others without professing any belief in any god. They are separate issues entirely.
  
  The rest of your post is pure garbage. So sure!
  
  Whatever makes you feel better about yourself after you don't like gays and don't think they should have rights. Very christ-like of you.
• OSH

  

  rocketalum;1791879 wrote:Where I've always had question is with the countless God's worshiped throughout human history, let alone today, and the amount of bloodshed in the name of those Gods why not at some point just reveal yourself and say "Hi guys it's me God you've been getting this all wrong" If there is a God and he/she/it has allowed humans to just murder the F out of each other for centuries in their name...not sure I want to worship that guy. Kind of a dick move.

  QuakerOats;1791884 wrote:I think you misread something --- you apparently think it is all about 'dedicating your life to your religion'; but in reality is more about dedicating your life to the service of others in need and contributing to the greater community as a whole, and it is through our religion and faith that we are emboldened to do so. It is about living every day in a Christ-like manner, not necessarily kneeling at an altar every Sunday morning.
  
  
  Good luck, and God bless.

  These two posts go together real good, in my opinion.
  
  Sure, every believer (no matter the religion) and person (religious belief or not) has those questions in why people get hurt -- "why do bad things happen?" It's a major sticking point for many people who don't profess any "religious" belief system.
  
  Quaker hit the nail on the head for where the Judeo-Christian "belief" is rooted in -- love God and love others. In that order. Many times those forms of love are perverted by an individual, in one form or another. For me, always comes back to this famous quote:
  

  I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ -- Mahatma Gandhi

• jmog

  sleeper;1791874 wrote:Tell me more what that has to do with religion?
  
  A belief in someone unknown power is not the same as a belief in a verifiable god such as one that most religions subscribe to. Attributing things that cannot be explained to a "supreme being" has nothing to do with people who think Jesus Christ died and rose again on EARTH, and that the Pope doesn't think people with AIDS in Africa should use condoms.
  
  The irony of course, is Einstein would most certainly agree that with more knowledge, this "supreme being" would get less and less powerful as we figure out how to attribute those things to reality. It's entirely different but its convenient for you to twist that into some idea that science & religion mix. Laughable.

  1. Once one decides for themselves that there is a god/supreme being then they will probably go seeking out which 'version' of god they believe the supreme being to be. This will have them study different religions hence the connection to religion.
  
  2. Your comment about the Pope and condoms/AIDS has zero relevance to the thread other than to be idiotic and incite those on your side of the discussion.
  
  3. You can not say WHAT Einstein would agree with NOW. What you attributed to him could have easily been something he would have been able to believe back in his time, but he never said that. So, the evidence we have says you are wrong, that he wouldn't have believed that. As we gain more and more knowledge about the universe we find that it is more 'ordered' than we thought before (laws, constants, processes, etc rather than randomness). So no, according to Einstein's own statements there is more evidence that he would believe MORE in a supreme being than back in his time.
• jmog

  rocketalum;1791879 wrote:Where I've always had question is with the countless God's worshiped throughout human history, let alone today, and the amount of bloodshed in the name of those Gods why not at some point just reveal yourself and say "Hi guys it's me God you've been getting this all wrong" If there is a God and he/she/it has allowed humans to just murder the F out of each other for centuries in their name...not sure I want to worship that guy. Kind of a dick move.

  If one believes in the Judeo-Christian god he actually did this in the form of Jesus Christ.
  
  Just because humans later on still killed in his 'name' doesn't mean he didn't try to come down and say 'hey, you are doing this all wrong'. If you look at the teachings of Jesus you will see that most of the people he was 'against' and trashing left and right were the religious leaders of that time.
• jmog

  sleeper;1791881 wrote: No believer is honestly weighing each religious belief to the evidence that supports that belief because if they did, they would be atheists.

  False, just your opinion with no basis in logic or reason.
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1791893 wrote:1. Once one decides for themselves that there is a god/supreme being then they will probably go seeking out which 'version' of god they believe the supreme being to be. This will have them study different religions hence the connection to religion.
  
  2. Your comment about the Pope and condoms/AIDS has zero relevance to the thread other than to be idiotic and incite those on your side of the discussion.
  
  3. You can not say WHAT Einstein would agree with NOW. What you attributed to him could have easily been something he would have been able to believe back in his time, but he never said that. So, the evidence we have says you are wrong, that he wouldn't have believed that. As we gain more and more knowledge about the universe we find that it is more 'ordered' than we thought before (laws, constants, processes, etc rather than randomness). So no, according to Einstein's own statements there is more evidence that he would believe MORE in a supreme being than back in his time.

  1. That's entirely BS and you know it. There's no requirement to seek out an organized religion once a belief in god is established(evidence required first, there is zero).
  2. Agreed. Just want to remind everyone what we are dealing with and why religion is bad for society(that's just one way). AIDS in Africa is worse off because of the Pope.
  3. Ordered universe =/= God. That's a leap at best and a broken leap in reality.
• sleeper

  

  Maybe we just need another 1000's of years until we figure out what the bible is really saying. We are just supposed to believe in it before we even read it and understand it!
  
  Sounds like Obamacare.
• QuakerOats

  sleeper;1791888 wrote:You can dedicate your life to the service of others without professing any belief in any god. They are separate issues entirely.
  
  The rest of your post is pure garbage. So sure!
  
  Whatever makes you feel better about yourself after you don't like gays and don't think they should have rights. Very christ-like of you.

  
  1 - I suppose you can; we have BIG government right now trying to force people to do so. Perhaps you worship at the altar of BIG government.
  
  2 - opinion.
  
  3 - you obviously don't know me, at all.
• sleeper

  

  QuakerOats;1791902 wrote:1 - I suppose you can; we have BIG government right now trying to force people to do so. Perhaps you worship at the altar of BIG government.
  
  2 - opinion.
  
  3 - you obviously don't know me, at all.

  You could have stopped after "I suppose you can". The rest of your statement is irrelevant.
  
  I don't know you, but I do know you support the party that suppresses the human rights of gay people and the rights of women. Tell me more about how you are a good person because you attend church on Sundays.
• QuakerOats

  I tried to explain how religion and faith extend far beyond a Sunday service, but obviously there was a comprehension issue. Your other statements are easily dismissed as factually incorrect, not to mention outrageous.
• jmog

  sleeper;1791897 wrote:1. That's entirely BS and you know it. There's no requirement to seek out an organized religion once a belief in god is established(evidence required first, there is zero).
  2. Agreed. Just want to remind everyone what we are dealing with and why religion is bad for society(that's just one way). AIDS in Africa is worse off because of the Pope.
  3. Ordered universe =/= God. That's a leap at best and a broken leap in reality.

  1. I didn't say it was required, I said one would tend to do so. As in, it would be human nature (psychology/sociology) that once they decide they believe in a supreme being to research for themselves what 'definition' of god they believe in. Maybe they make their own 'definition', maybe they fall into one of those that already exist, etc.
  
  2. At least you have finally admitted to not using logic in discussions, just using hyperbole, non sequiturs, ad hominem, prejudicial terms, appeal to authority (claiming yourself as the authority), etc.
  
  3. I didn't say ordered universe proves God. I said that Einstein was quoted as it was evidence of a supreme being. Try to actually follow what is typed sometimes.
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1791896 wrote:False, just your opinion with no basis in logic or reason.

  How can you weigh evidence when none exists?
  
  My statement is valid.
• sleeper

  

  QuakerOats;1791912 wrote:I tried to explain how religion and faith extend far beyond a Sunday service, but obviously there was a comprehension issue. Your other statements are easily dismissed as factually incorrect, not to mention outrageous.

  You believe in something entirely made up.
  
  Enjoy!
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1791914 wrote:1. I didn't say it was required, I said one would tend to do so. As in, it would be human nature (psychology/sociology) that once they decide they believe in a supreme being to research for themselves what 'definition' of god they believe in. Maybe they make their own 'definition', maybe they fall into one of those that already exist, etc.
  
  2. At least you have finally admitted to not using logic in discussions, just using hyperbole, non sequiturs, ad hominem, prejudicial terms, appeal to authority (claiming yourself as the authority), etc.
  
  3. I didn't say ordered universe proves God. I said that Einstein was quoted as it was evidence of a supreme being. Try to actually follow what is typed sometimes.

  1. How would one pick one scam over the other? None of them have any evidence.
  
  2. I think I'm allowed a few logical loopholes in this discussion when the entire idea of religion is a logical loophole. I get 1, you get trillions; seems fair man.
  
  3. That is not evidence of a supreme being and certainly not one of the scam man made religions.
• sleeper

  

  Again, maybe we just need a thousand more years until we can interpret the known fact that is the bible. LOL
• jmog

  sleeper;1791915 wrote:How can you weigh evidence when none exists?
  
  My statement is valid.

  No evidence is an opinion but what I was referring to was your claim that they would all be atheists. Since there is no evidence that god does not exist, then if all atheists really weighed the evidence they would all be theists.
  
  You see how absurd that sounds? It is the exact same thing you said, just on the other foot.
  
  If one looks and finds no evidence, then they could easily be agnostic and that is more likely than atheist.
  
  So, once again you failed to see the whole picture rather than just your militant belief system.
• jmog

  sleeper;1791917 wrote:1. How would one pick one scam over the other? None of them have any evidence.
  
  2. I think I'm allowed a few logical loopholes in this discussion when the entire idea of religion is a logical loophole. I get 1, you get trillions; seems fair man.
  
  3. That is not evidence of a supreme being and certainly not one of the scam man made religions.

  1. You state that none have any evidence which is not true at all and just your opinion. I didn't say how one would 'pick', I just stated that human nature would drive them to 'figure it out'.
  
  2. If you truly believe you only use 'one logical fallacy' then you can not be helped. Take a Intro to Logics course and then read your posts.
  
  3. Your opinion that it is not evidence, it seems Einstein thought it was. I suggest you look up the "fine tuned universe" discussion/argument. Interesting debate on both sides of the aisle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1791921 wrote:1. You state that none have any evidence which is not true at all and just your opinion. I didn't say how one would 'pick', I just stated that human nature would drive them to 'figure it out'.
  
  2. If you truly believe you only use 'one logical fallacy' then you can not be helped. Take a Intro to Logics course and then read your posts.
  
  3. Your opinion that it is not evidence, it seems Einstein thought it was. I suggest you look up the "fine tuned universe" discussion/argument. Interesting debate on both sides of the aisle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe

  Yeah, all this evidence...There is zero evidence. Time to grow up!
• Con_Alma

  sleeper;1791876 wrote:"When tools counteract each other, you will pick what is most convenient. God only exists for believers so this God also allows for the tool of ignorance and faith to override logic and reason."
  
  See above. I clearly stated that both are gifts and that they can override each other when convenient.

  It wasn't clear because there were three things originally referred to...logic, reason & faith.
  
  In your response to my question of faith being a gift from God or not you mentioned "both" with ignorance now being injected.
  
  Thanks for that last sentence and alluding to faith being a gift. I appreciate your willingness to address it.
• Sonofanump

  sleeper;1791631 wrote:
  Religion is for the poor and stupid.

  I only came here for this.
  Empirical evidence shows:
  Bill & Melinda are Catholic.
  Warren is Agnostic.
  The Waltons are Presbyterian.
  So there goes that theory.
• Tiernan

  We are getting closer and closer to the day when intelligent alien life is discovered somewhere else in the Universe and at that exact moment every religious doctrine on earth collapses. I hope I'm still around to see it. I'm curious what we will do with all the churches, synagogues and mosques? Not to mention the millions of charlatan ministers, priests, rabbis and imams...gonna be a huge spike in unemployment.
• sleeper

  

  Tiernan;1791978 wrote:We are getting closer and closer to the day when intelligent alien life is discovered somewhere else in the Universe and at that exact moment every religious doctrine on earth collapses. I hope I'm still around to see it. I'm curious what we will do with all the churches, synagogues and mosques? Not to mention the millions of charlatan ministers, priests, rabbis and imams...gonna be a huge spike in unemployment.

  Like religion always does, they will find some obscure passage in their book and claim that it's meant to be translated as "Life on other planets".
  
  Convenient. As time goes on, we will find more and more of the bible is just a book of allegorical stories and parables; which is the direct opposite of how it is taught in schools and in church.
• jmog

  Tiernan;1791978 wrote:We are getting closer and closer to the day when intelligent alien life is discovered somewhere else in the Universe and at that exact moment every religious doctrine on earth collapses. I hope I'm still around to see it. I'm curious what we will do with all the churches, synagogues and mosques? Not to mention the millions of charlatan ministers, priests, rabbis and imams...gonna be a huge spike in unemployment.

  I can't speak for other religions (have read the Koran but don't remember everything), but I can give an educated answer for Christianity.
  
  Can you please quote the Bible verse that precludes alien existence?
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1791991 wrote:I can't speak for other religions (have read the Koran but don't remember everything), but I can give an educated answer for Christianity.
  
  Can you please quote the Bible verse that precludes alien existence?

  Can you please quote the bible that precludes the existence of unicorns?